Post by legendary on May 25, 2014 18:34:51 GMT -5
Sorry, I've been very busy recently, so this is a bit on the late side.
Not all of them have been abused but a substantial number have, yes. While we're championing for realism, let's take a look at actual statistics for that: 2/3 of sexual abuse victims are abused by someone they know, sexual abuse happens once every 2 minutes on average, the new york times statesthat 1 in 5 women in the US have been sexually assaulted and actually admit to it. But that's not a place where life is cheap and empty as Zalanthas, so let's look at somewhere a little more third world and desperate, eh? How about, say... Ugandawhere more than 50% of children have been sexually abused by the age of ten.
Those are some statistics, I can't disagree.
However, in places like Uganda, it isn't considered to be a life changing deal. We look at a great many things through our American eyes and are (quite rightly) outraged at the idea that this is happening, but in many of these places it does not carry the same traumatic effect or associated stigmas that it does in the more... forward thinking nations. Not unlike murder, torture, extortion, prostitution, arms dealing, drug use and many other things our good Church-going nation frowns upon, rape and general violence are often just a part of life.
A young girl who suffers at the hands of some pedophile in a third world nation doesn't devolve into the broken wreck in need of decades of therapy as is common here. She puts her clothes on and carries on with her life, as if she doesn't, there is a good chance her and her family are going to be faced with even harder times then they're already dealing with. It's a terrible situation for anyone to live in, but it's an unfortunate reality in many places in the world.
When I think of Zalanthas, I don't imagine a world where young girls and boys grow up completely mind fucked from rape or molestation, but deal with it and soldier on because there is no other choice. It's somewhat jarring to see people spend game years worth of melodrama over a rape, but are able to shrug off the death of a trusted friend or loved one in a few weeks and are in bed with someone else before the month is out, or get over being nearly murdered as if it's the most shoulder-shrugging non-issue there could be.
The death of something as precious as a person you can trust? Worth being broken up over for a long time. Getting pinned against the table and raped? Get drunk, chug some mul mix and get on with your life. Get stronger, get revenge, but get over it.
For PCs in Zalanthas, that is.
I didn't say anything about bards.
Since you brought it up however, I can think of two off the top of my head who were or aspired to be. They were both gemmed, both beautiful and both with histories of male oppression, rape / violence or betrayal, one of which could have been pulled directly from a Lifetime network special.
My original point was that every one of your characters that I've interacted with has had these or similar innate talents and they were never put across as amateur or a minor hobby, but as highly talented. No off-key ditties or crude hip shaking, but harmonious songs and graceful or erotic dances, every time. I'll refrain from commenting on the incredible talents of your last Whirian for the sake of not turning this thread into text porn.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing and you're one of the few players who successfully handles it without coming across ham handed. It's just part of a trend, simple as that.
I'm sorry, but if you want to feign misrepresentation then you're going to be called on it, right now.
They're usually looser than a stripped screw.
Even by the hedonistic ways of the average Zalanthan, most of them hopped from bed to bed like bed bugs on PCP. You can try to pander it away as a deep emotional role-play if you so wish, but for all the lovers, mates and state accepted spouses my PCs have had over the years, the only ones I ever felt hassled my PCs for mudsex on too regular a basis, were yours.
You're enjoyable to play with, but I found myself, as a player, wanting to avoid your PCs out of fear I'd be drawn into yet another three hours of same-old when I had other things to do, such as attend to the players in the clan who were getting (justifiably) bothered that my PC was so regularly "occupied".
This is where things start to blur between relevant discussion and very uncomfortable.
I'm sorry that you've had to endure things that have left a mark on you and I won't pretend to understand how that feels, but how you're projecting it into the game isn't in keeping with how things work in Zalanthas. You are not your character; your character is not you. The conjuring of monstrous male figures in the background in order to facilitate a level of melodrama that would leave Maury at a loss for words does not do the toughness of Zalanthan women, or Zalanthans in general, justice.
On earth.
Zalanthans don't suffer from the same social stigmas associated with rape because it happens on such a regular basis. It is very much a might makes right style of society where you can get away with just about anything if you're powerful enough.
Having observed two instances, your character seemed directed into those compromising situations quite readily.
I won't pursue that any further as this is already uncomfortable enough.
They're eloquently written, to the point I wish I could manage the same level of quality.
Scars notwithstanding, they're usually complete jaw droppers by most fantasy standards, no matter what their profession.
I'm going to bypass the age part of this discussion.
No matter how I worded it, I couldn't make the point I wanted to without unintentional implications. I'm willing to come across as cold if necessary, but I'm not willing to come across as completely heartless, so I'm just going to leave it alone.
And therein lies my point, in your own words.
You rarely play anything but archetype I outlined in my previous post; it is the same flavor of character, with the same moral dilemmas, social prerogatives, same age bracket. Though they vary in appearance and are all very unique, they're the same in that they're beautiful. Not just because you're a talented writer, but because they're beautiful.
You will note that the origin of this particular branch of the thread came about because of people having issues with "flawless beauty", which is, no matter how you choose to justify it, most of your characters to a T.
Once again, there is no way to respond to this particular point without it becoming too personal, so I'll move right along.
And the poor are often malnourished, dehydrated and both have a rather unfortunate effect on beauty. Eyes sink, cheeks hallow, skin dries and discolors, the list is rather long and impressive when you really sit down to think about it and that is before exposure factors in. It's even worse on the youths who's bodies are consuming nutrients (trying) to grow, leading to even more less than attractive physical ailments.
I would point to Uganda as a good point of reference to what I'm talking about, since it's your reference.
None of this is evidenced in your "poor" characters, at all.
It's a nice character.
You're putting forward your views as a victim on earth, as a woman who is a part of a society that was historically Patriarchal and oppressive to women until relatively recently. A society where there is still no shortage of glass ceilings. There are no such gender inequities on Zalanthas and the people there endure against terrible odds because of an inherent toughness, both mental and physical, that I would compare loosely to some of our races tribal people.
No one is saying you need to be majorly disfigured, or even scarred per say. The majority seem to want a realistic level of grit to the average, common born PC that is unfortunately most often lacking in female PCs, rather than males. That isn't to say there aren't some male players who consistently play the approximation of an anime super studs, but they are relatively few compared to female and rarely with physical endowments you can see from space.
One in particular seems to play the same "handsome, charming man" character with a fetish for cunnilingus on a too-regular basis. He, too, is quite easy to spot, in large part due to how he handles social manipulation and interacts with female PCs.
This was a really uncomfortable response to write and while I'm truly sorry you've had a hard life and endured some terrible things, most of your personal injuries have absolutely no place in a discussion of Zalanthas. What you often represent in-game is a weak, broken and damaged Zalanthan woman, ones that suffered under the tyranny of the domineering male.
You speak out against sexist behavior from the players and staff, but repeatedly play the very archetype that causes people to perpetuate the stigma you speak out against.
Frankly, your hypocrite and seem more interested in getting attention than resolving the few inequity issues in the community.
If you aren't going to walk the walk, don't talk the talk.
Settle down Noob, don't come in here making ruckus at Anaiah, if you disagree with what she says, then fine, don't go out of your way to put down what she is trying to say.
It isn't terribly often one gets the chance to see a white knight with shit on his nose, but here we are.
May 14, 2014 22:35:01 GMT -5 @anaiah said:
Not all of them have been abused but a substantial number have, yes. While we're championing for realism, let's take a look at actual statistics for that: 2/3 of sexual abuse victims are abused by someone they know, sexual abuse happens once every 2 minutes on average, the new york times statesthat 1 in 5 women in the US have been sexually assaulted and actually admit to it. But that's not a place where life is cheap and empty as Zalanthas, so let's look at somewhere a little more third world and desperate, eh? How about, say... Ugandawhere more than 50% of children have been sexually abused by the age of ten.
Those are some statistics, I can't disagree.
However, in places like Uganda, it isn't considered to be a life changing deal. We look at a great many things through our American eyes and are (quite rightly) outraged at the idea that this is happening, but in many of these places it does not carry the same traumatic effect or associated stigmas that it does in the more... forward thinking nations. Not unlike murder, torture, extortion, prostitution, arms dealing, drug use and many other things our good Church-going nation frowns upon, rape and general violence are often just a part of life.
A young girl who suffers at the hands of some pedophile in a third world nation doesn't devolve into the broken wreck in need of decades of therapy as is common here. She puts her clothes on and carries on with her life, as if she doesn't, there is a good chance her and her family are going to be faced with even harder times then they're already dealing with. It's a terrible situation for anyone to live in, but it's an unfortunate reality in many places in the world.
When I think of Zalanthas, I don't imagine a world where young girls and boys grow up completely mind fucked from rape or molestation, but deal with it and soldier on because there is no other choice. It's somewhat jarring to see people spend game years worth of melodrama over a rape, but are able to shrug off the death of a trusted friend or loved one in a few weeks and are in bed with someone else before the month is out, or get over being nearly murdered as if it's the most shoulder-shrugging non-issue there could be.
The death of something as precious as a person you can trust? Worth being broken up over for a long time. Getting pinned against the table and raped? Get drunk, chug some mul mix and get on with your life. Get stronger, get revenge, but get over it.
For PCs in Zalanthas, that is.
Alright, though, let's move on to another point. How many people don't do -something- like sing or dance at some fucking point? You make it out like I'm playing bard after bard when in reality, I'm playing the equivalent of mostly people who would do something like sing in the shower's equivalent of singing to themselves while bored and alone, or rarely singing something to/for someone they are close to, or who MAY have an interest in music at some point.
I didn't say anything about bards.
Since you brought it up however, I can think of two off the top of my head who were or aspired to be. They were both gemmed, both beautiful and both with histories of male oppression, rape / violence or betrayal, one of which could have been pulled directly from a Lifetime network special.
My original point was that every one of your characters that I've interacted with has had these or similar innate talents and they were never put across as amateur or a minor hobby, but as highly talented. No off-key ditties or crude hip shaking, but harmonious songs and graceful or erotic dances, every time. I'll refrain from commenting on the incredible talents of your last Whirian for the sake of not turning this thread into text porn.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing and you're one of the few players who successfully handles it without coming across ham handed. It's just part of a trend, simple as that.
I have no IDEA where you're getting sex hungry from when the underlying thread of the relationships my pcs have ever had has been a craving for EMOTIONAL intimacy, not sexual. Because, you know, it's so ultrarealistic that people shouldn't want someone to trust or get close to.
I'm sorry, but if you want to feign misrepresentation then you're going to be called on it, right now.
They're usually looser than a stripped screw.
Even by the hedonistic ways of the average Zalanthan, most of them hopped from bed to bed like bed bugs on PCP. You can try to pander it away as a deep emotional role-play if you so wish, but for all the lovers, mates and state accepted spouses my PCs have had over the years, the only ones I ever felt hassled my PCs for mudsex on too regular a basis, were yours.
You're enjoyable to play with, but I found myself, as a player, wanting to avoid your PCs out of fear I'd be drawn into yet another three hours of same-old when I had other things to do, such as attend to the players in the clan who were getting (justifiably) bothered that my PC was so regularly "occupied".
I'm sorry if the 'amping up the victim' has been perceived as being 'to a grating degree', I tend to roleplay out responses that are appropriate, aka different and unique, to each situation and circumstance, but I can tell you this: Of the three people who have sexually abused ME, AMANDA, I will never forget their faces. I will never have a day that it is not a cognizant fucking part of my life and a part of the things I process and face.
This is where things start to blur between relevant discussion and very uncomfortable.
I'm sorry that you've had to endure things that have left a mark on you and I won't pretend to understand how that feels, but how you're projecting it into the game isn't in keeping with how things work in Zalanthas. You are not your character; your character is not you. The conjuring of monstrous male figures in the background in order to facilitate a level of melodrama that would leave Maury at a loss for words does not do the toughness of Zalanthan women, or Zalanthans in general, justice.
I'm sorry that someone who has actually been abused is projecting that experience in a realistic way.
On earth.
Zalanthans don't suffer from the same social stigmas associated with rape because it happens on such a regular basis. It is very much a might makes right style of society where you can get away with just about anything if you're powerful enough.
The fact of the matter is, the vast majority of reported assaults are male on female, period, and in game, in my experience, the fifteen plus pcs of mine who have been raped? Every single rapist has been male.
Having observed two instances, your character seemed directed into those compromising situations quite readily.
I won't pursue that any further as this is already uncomfortable enough.
NOT all of my pcs are 'super goodlooking', but I do write their descriptions eloquently, and if they haven't had reason to have scars, they won't, and if they have, they do.
They're eloquently written, to the point I wish I could manage the same level of quality.
Scars notwithstanding, they're usually complete jaw droppers by most fantasy standards, no matter what their profession.
Most of them have been sheltered, being young and totally lacking in experience, and the vast majority of my pcs (95%) -have- been noncombat pcs, like, you know, merchants, assassins who don't actually do combat, elementalists of some kind. They are poor when they are unskilled as all pcs are. And you know, when they get money, they don't tend to act desperate anymore, and most 13-14ish year olds (the vast majority of my pcs have been teenagers) who suddenly have their parents die/disappear/disown them DO wind up doing unpleasant, distasteful sex acts to get by, even on earth, I can't imagine it in Zalanthas, but yes, take that and combine it with someone who's soft, unblemished, and not particularly disfigured and it keeps you fed.
I'm going to bypass the age part of this discussion.
No matter how I worded it, I couldn't make the point I wanted to without unintentional implications. I'm willing to come across as cold if necessary, but I'm not willing to come across as completely heartless, so I'm just going to leave it alone.
You can critique it all you want, but the reality of it is, the only reason I've had pcs that have looked the way they have is because their backgrounds fit it, and because their guild and circumstances fit it as well. And if I'd played something different, they'd look different..
And therein lies my point, in your own words.
You rarely play anything but archetype I outlined in my previous post; it is the same flavor of character, with the same moral dilemmas, social prerogatives, same age bracket. Though they vary in appearance and are all very unique, they're the same in that they're beautiful. Not just because you're a talented writer, but because they're beautiful.
You will note that the origin of this particular branch of the thread came about because of people having issues with "flawless beauty", which is, no matter how you choose to justify it, most of your characters to a T.
My rangers have had scars, several rangers, all with scars, but no, you're right, I'm not signing up to play the hulking, brutish woman, that's not my style, that's not what I enjoy playing.
Once again, there is no way to respond to this particular point without it becoming too personal, so I'll move right along.
And yes, someone not used to being self sufficient who is a fucking adolescent with no trade skills OFTEN winds up being that poor.
And the poor are often malnourished, dehydrated and both have a rather unfortunate effect on beauty. Eyes sink, cheeks hallow, skin dries and discolors, the list is rather long and impressive when you really sit down to think about it and that is before exposure factors in. It's even worse on the youths who's bodies are consuming nutrients (trying) to grow, leading to even more less than attractive physical ailments.
I would point to Uganda as a good point of reference to what I'm talking about, since it's your reference.
None of this is evidenced in your "poor" characters, at all.
Say what you want. In fact, just for the fuck of it, I'll throw in a desc/eq list of a warlock I'm playing on Shattered Kingdoms as a good example.
It's a nice character.
And yes, I fucking MAINTAIN that it is an issue with bias, double standards, and RL sexism. Because I can't play someone who isn't majorly disfigured and reacting realistically to fucked up circumstances without getting slagged about my play being a major disservice to equality when I am bringing realistic numbers based in actual facts and figures, and reactions based not only on personal experience but also on psychological study to the table, but when someone makes a pretty male that gets by on their looks (it's happened, one of them was the man-candy of my Oash noble), they are congratulated.
You're putting forward your views as a victim on earth, as a woman who is a part of a society that was historically Patriarchal and oppressive to women until relatively recently. A society where there is still no shortage of glass ceilings. There are no such gender inequities on Zalanthas and the people there endure against terrible odds because of an inherent toughness, both mental and physical, that I would compare loosely to some of our races tribal people.
No one is saying you need to be majorly disfigured, or even scarred per say. The majority seem to want a realistic level of grit to the average, common born PC that is unfortunately most often lacking in female PCs, rather than males. That isn't to say there aren't some male players who consistently play the approximation of an anime super studs, but they are relatively few compared to female and rarely with physical endowments you can see from space.
One in particular seems to play the same "handsome, charming man" character with a fetish for cunnilingus on a too-regular basis. He, too, is quite easy to spot, in large part due to how he handles social manipulation and interacts with female PCs.
This was a really uncomfortable response to write and while I'm truly sorry you've had a hard life and endured some terrible things, most of your personal injuries have absolutely no place in a discussion of Zalanthas. What you often represent in-game is a weak, broken and damaged Zalanthan woman, ones that suffered under the tyranny of the domineering male.
You speak out against sexist behavior from the players and staff, but repeatedly play the very archetype that causes people to perpetuate the stigma you speak out against.
Frankly, your hypocrite and seem more interested in getting attention than resolving the few inequity issues in the community.
If you aren't going to walk the walk, don't talk the talk.
It isn't terribly often one gets the chance to see a white knight with shit on his nose, but here we are.
