mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 16, 2022 5:44:19 GMT -5
There's been a thread on the GDB for the past couple of weeks asking for feedback on why players are logging in less.
At the start of the thread, you have the usual gripes. The things players have been complaining about for years but just never gets fixed or even addressed. The world doesn't meaningfully change. Doing big things in the game feels like work. The game feels stagnant due to the lack of players doing things. Etc. etc.
Then someone mentions the karma system, and how karma needs to regenerate after playing extended subguilds, so people essentially take a break from Arm while the karma regenerates. Staff hone in on that, proposing that a fix is in the works. In fact, it's been in the works for the last 6 months, but RL is kicking Brokkr's ass so it hasn't changed yet. (Also implying that literally no one else on staff is able to change this, for some reason.)
Since staff only comment on the karma system, most of the rest of the entire thread is taken over by discussion of fixing the karma system, conveniently ignoring the few people that continue to bring up other issues that have not been fixed in over a decade.
I will always be amazed at how easily players let staff pull the wool over their eyes.
|
|
|
Post by lechuck on Oct 16, 2022 10:33:02 GMT -5
Last time I played, the game had grown so stagnant and boring that I couldn't force myself to keep playing even though I was between jobs at the time and had a month with nothing to do. For the life of me, I cannot imagine why staff don't want to change this situation. If you talk to other players, or look at the GDB thread in question, it's clear that dissatisfaction with stagnation and boredom is a sentiment shared by many. It isn't three malcontents who will never be satisfied with anything, it's how players largely feel about the game. Why isn't staff doing anything about it?
Say what you will, it's clear that they care enough about the game to remain on staff and spend time on it. If they didn't give a shit, they'd just quit. Why, then, don't they want the game to be interesting? I don't get it. It wouldn't take a whole lot to make something happen. We don't need Game of Thrones reenacted in Zalanthas, just something that players can sink their teeth into. Armageddon managed to have that for years and years until one day it just stopped, and the only reason I can see is that staff simply decided not to have anything happen anymore.
When Tuluk opened again, there was a brief "war" preceding it. Then the city opened for play and all conflict immediately evaporated. It was like a story that just ended mid-sentence and the rest was a blank page. The stage was finally set for this to become the game's primary source of long-term story and conflict, but it just fizzled out the moment it was about to become real. To my knowledge, that aspect of the game was simply never picked up again. They flung the gates open and then shut the story off in the same moment, just as it was finally possible to actually play in Tuluk proper. Why?
I rolled up a Legion soldier when Tuluk reopened. Played it for two or three months, and there was never so much as a single grain of follow-up to the north-south conflict. In the beginning, there was a bit of talk about the recent battle since some of the northern PCs had actually been in it, but after a week or two, it stopped. Never heard about it again in-game. Never saw the slightest sign that there had even been any conflict. There had just been a war that led to the historically monumental reopening of Tuluk, and absolutely nothing followed. It went straight from the opening of the gates to total radio silence. After two or three months of patrolling the North Road and grasslands, never seeing the slightest trace of any sort of story or conflict, I stored.
It wouldn't have been difficult to keep stirring the pot. We didn't need pitched battles every week or anything like that, but we needed more than literally nothing whatsoever. You can't work with nothing. It was like enrolling in woodwork class and showing up only to find that there's no wood, no tools and no teacher, but if you complain about it, you're told that it's your responsibility to get something out of the class. Baffling.
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
|
Post by punished ppurg on Oct 16, 2022 11:11:42 GMT -5
I've been following that thread and it's clear that there's some manner of movement in the staff echelons to address the problem in Armageddon. Unfortunately, the problem is spoken to by the greedy-gimmes population that linger around the forum and discord: not necessarily the population that have abandoned Arm entirely. I made this observation at the beginning of the month (October 1st) when this line of inquiry began.
So let's just be grateful that we've moved past the hypothesis that Hurricane Ian and the Russo-Ukraine War are the factors driving Armageddon players down; it is very convenient for macroeconomic factors to be blamed for players walking away from Omelas, which of course means that the staff body can throw up their hands and continue as normal. Can't divert a hurricane, can't make a war turn peaceful, blah blah blah.
As meh has said here, they've honed in on the idea that players with karma are balking at the long wait times for karma regeneration. They've so far not addressed the ideas of: stagnant world, grind (my words: bloodprice) to minimum competency that does not respect the player's time, the atrocious slow roll that follows to make even a creative dent in the game world once the character has paid their bloodprice of time and become competent... I could go on.
I still have not given Tuluk a try. The horror stories of the first sponsored roles there when I was hype after it re-opened dissuaded me. Something that stood out to me on the forums was this community newbie's post. What has changed since 2015 and now, as far as the culture goes? We don't have tracking pixels and shadowboard member witch hunts anymore. But as far as deeming that the self-expressed dissatisfied are verboten from having agency in the game? That's clearly still the case. The presumption that if one disagrees with a staff call, then they're going to be a griefer that must be neutered & belittled from the community... it's still the refuge of bullies that cannot process criticism.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 17, 2022 6:00:03 GMT -5
The "historical lull period" argument is little more than a coping mechanism. Anyone who's looked at my weekly update trends posts would know that the playerbase has shrunk by nearly half over the past 8 years. Today's peaks are equivalent to 2015's "lull periods" in terms of weekly player counts. People have left the game, and the remaining players are still in denial about it. Even mansa, the most data-focused person still hanging around Arm, still ignores the obvious: the game has permanently shrunk, the staff are responsible through their decisionmaking (and indecision) as evidenced by the fact that the deepest declines have occurred around major game changes, and the staff offer no solutions.
I believe at least some of the staff care about the well-being of the game and its players, but it's laughable that Tuluk's opening was yet another battle spam RPT followed by radio silence. It goes to show that the current staff think that they can fix the mistakes of past staff teams by simply reversing what they did. It's always been a lot more complex than that.
|
|
|
Post by lechuck on Oct 17, 2022 6:07:43 GMT -5
No matter what time of the year, there's always a so-called historical lull period. Summer vacation? Christmas time? Semester start-up? January blues? The most ridiculous one is the fucking war in Ukraine. Why the hell would that make people play less? If anything, you'd think something like that nudges people towards escapism. Earlier this year (or maybe it was last year), staff blamed the declining numbers and widespread AFKing on the supposed fact that players had stopped sitting in school computer labs all day and instead started using smartphones. Yeah, that's a societal shift that happened in 2022, everyone knows that!
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 17, 2022 7:09:03 GMT -5
The fact that both summer vacation and the back-to-school period are considered lull periods should be enough for any reasonable person to realize that it's bullshit.
The idea that the war in Ukraine would somehow impact a group of 200 people largely concentrated in North America and Western Europe is so ridiculous it doesn't even merit a response. Anyone who actually believes Shabago's excuse-making is a mark.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 18, 2022 16:58:15 GMT -5
On page 7 and the only thing staff seem willing to commit to is reversing the karma regen system (which is already done) and maybe restarting the committee to attract/retain new players (which has been tried before).
Seven pages of players commenting on stagnation, how play has turned into work, and lack of respect from staff, and those two things are the only things staff have commented on.
tbh, Armageddon should start to charge money considering how easily scammed the playerbase is.
|
|
ibusoe
Clueless newb
Posts: 176
|
Post by ibusoe on Oct 18, 2022 17:44:30 GMT -5
On page 7 and the only thing staff seem willing to commit to is reversing the karma regen system (which is already done) and maybe restarting the committee to attract/retain new players (which has been tried before). Seven pages of players commenting on stagnation, how play has turned into work, and lack of respect from staff, and those two things are the only things staff have commented on. tbh, Armageddon should start to charge money considering how easily scammed the playerbase is. Hah! I want to share my opinion on what should be done, but the real question is shouldn't I use my time to improve a more viable game than Armageddon? Or should I stay out of it and just write Arm (one of my favorite games) off. I get the feeeling that you'd say the game is unrecoverable?
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 18, 2022 18:04:38 GMT -5
On page 7 and the only thing staff seem willing to commit to is reversing the karma regen system (which is already done) and maybe restarting the committee to attract/retain new players (which has been tried before). Seven pages of players commenting on stagnation, how play has turned into work, and lack of respect from staff, and those two things are the only things staff have commented on. tbh, Armageddon should start to charge money considering how easily scammed the playerbase is. Hah! I want to share my opinion on what should be done, but the real question is shouldn't I use my time to improve a more viable game than Armageddon? Or should I stay out of it and just write Arm (one of my favorite games) off. I get the feeeling that you'd say the game is unrecoverable? Yeah, Armageddon has no path to becoming a better game (at least not one that every single staff member can agree on). The thread shows as much.
I would say the point of no return was in August 2018. That is when the game very suddenly went from attracting ~30 new accounts/week to ~10 new accounts/week. Now it's consistently in the single digits. Nothing specific really happened to "cause" the dip - Armageddon just burned through the vast majority of MUD players that would ever think to play Armageddon, between the old MUD listing sites starting to die off and the increase in troubling reports and reviews about the game. Few people want to play a game run by cheaters and sex pests who harass former players and staff.
With a lot of that in the rear view mirror, Armageddon failed to do anything that actually retains players in a roleplaying game: create hooks to roleplay around. It focused on becoming a desert survival simulator with increasingly annoying mechanics that made the required time investment higher and the ROI lower per unit of time spent. Armageddon also wasted a lot of its talent by putting its best players in a dysfunctional bureaucracy until they burned out and quit staff, or the game entirely.
The karma reversal thing is obviously just staff trying to keep the party going a little longer, and retain the vets it still has. We'll see in 2023 when I do my weekly update data write-up what effect it actually has on the numbers. I also plan on posting the write-up on r/MUD where maybe other MUD runners can actually see the data and learn what repeating Armageddon's mistakes leads to.
I would say the field is wide open for a new roleplaying game.
|
|
|
Post by lechuck on Oct 18, 2022 20:08:46 GMT -5
All one really needs to know about staff's ability to maintain the game is this:
Back when Covid-19 first hit the world for real, just about everyone was stuck at home for a few months. As a result, Armageddon's player numbers skyrocketed to the point where online peaks were as high as 60-70ish for a time. I can't remember exactly how long that lasted, but I wanna say it was the better part of two weeks, maybe even a month. However, absolutely nothing happened in the game during that time. No detectable effort was made by staff to capitalize on this spike and capture those players. No events, no initiatives, just a game left to its own devices. Nobody did anything whatsoever to retain those returning players, and soon enough, they were gone again. Long before the Covid lockdowns came to an end, player numbers were back to the usual sorry state, and there was no indication at all that the peak numbers had been doubled for a time, just a month prior.
Can you imagine any other kind of game where that could happen? Where the playerbase could double in size almost overnight, and then a month later, everything's back to normal with no trace of it having happened at all? No events to remember, no fleeting blur of activity, nothing. The 'who' numbers were higher for a time but the game itself barely noticed because nobody lifted a finger to guide that increase in activity towards something useful. Nothing happened, nobody cared, and it was forgotten again in the blink of an eye. Those players returned to Armageddon to find a game that offered nothing deserving of their time, so they shrugged their shoulders and chose to spend their time elsewhere. If staff had bothered to put something together that would retain even a fifth of those players, perhaps the game would still have peaks in the 50s instead of 35-40. Alas, nobody cared enough to do so.
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
|
Post by punished ppurg on Oct 18, 2022 21:55:42 GMT -5
Indeed, you have voices in the community who now in hindsight decry the idea of "capitalizing on a global pandemic" as unethical, foolish, etc. Anything to excuse the failure to launch, the inability to capitalize; or really the instinct that a healthy community would have, to retain a positive wave of activity that washes against it. I'm not sure if it's such that "nobody cared" to do so: I'm willing to bet that at least one staff member had the instincts over it. It may just be the framework of the game as it exists that penalized or petrified any sort of positive approach. The inheritors are so fearful of allowing any changes to their golden goose, that they seem more eager to let it waste away.
|
|
nile
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
|
Post by nile on Oct 18, 2022 22:50:59 GMT -5
Shit, I play another MUD that has a RPT every 3 days on the regular. All thematic, plot based, char driven outcomes. Or sometimes staff will just randomly drum up some issue the online pbase can go deal with.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 21, 2022 11:26:11 GMT -5
Delirium posted this today. Posting it here because it is almost certainly going to get deleted otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by jcarter on Oct 21, 2022 14:09:10 GMT -5
Lol halaster deleted her post. And he also was the one who closed the thread she referenced in her post. Hmmm wonder who the mystery 20 year long staffer could be.
|
|
|
Post by jcarter on Oct 21, 2022 14:11:36 GMT -5
Delirium come post here I won't delete it even if you say negative things about me. Hmu or have someone hmu through discord to get authed.
|
|