nile
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Post by nile on Oct 25, 2022 19:16:48 GMT -5
I honestly think this guy got mental issues or is just real fucking stuipid.
Gaahl was Salt Inna' Wound real name.
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punished ppurg
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Post by punished ppurg on Oct 25, 2022 19:30:09 GMT -5
lol randomly found this. loooonsh you fucking idiot... "Welcome back! Very sorry to hear about Gaahl, I know this won't help, but I was waiting to find Gaahl online for an organic promotion to Glint. So please chalk it up as a win that your PC was to become the first Two Moons Glint. You did a tremendous job with the PC, and helped many players really grasp what it was to be a part of the tribe. I love this new character, very cool sdesc, spooky-but-realistic mdesc, and I really hope they go far. You're a tremendous player, and very creative. Best of luck with this role!!! -Shalooonsh" Today, I dragged my neighbor's dog off of the road in front of my house. He had been hit by a passing truck. The truck did not stop. The dog hadn't suffered, it was an instant end. My neighbor pulled into his driveway from work an hour later, and he told me that someone was coming to get that dog tomorrow. The dog was going to head somewhere else where he could be watched better, not get into the chicken coop and chew up the chickens, and so on.
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nile
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Post by nile on Oct 25, 2022 20:04:12 GMT -5
lol randomly found this. loooonsh you fucking idiot... "Welcome back! Very sorry to hear about Gaahl, I know this won't help, but I was waiting to find Gaahl online for an organic promotion to Glint. So please chalk it up as a win that your PC was to become the first Two Moons Glint. You did a tremendous job with the PC, and helped many players really grasp what it was to be a part of the tribe. I love this new character, very cool sdesc, spooky-but-realistic mdesc, and I really hope they go far. You're a tremendous player, and very creative. Best of luck with this role!!! -Shalooonsh" Am I missing some context here or is Shaloonsh just really tone deaf going 'Haha you were going to get a promotion but you died!' and not seeing that that is NOT what someone wants to hear.No. Gaahl was Salty Black actually, not Salt Inna' Wound. No context. Just a pedo.
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ibusoe
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Post by ibusoe on Oct 25, 2022 20:58:50 GMT -5
I know you're capable of spitting out rants that make Grumble look like he's short spoken Thanks! I'm a neck-beard alright! What you envision for the clan system, how you'd make the game more social, whatever the fuck the payment system would entail, 'hardening', an elf revamp, etc. As you allude below, it's important to give staff credit for what they have working. I think the clan formation system is actually awesome, in that now it costs nearly the same amount for everyone to build a little group and get the tree fort that I was begging for nigh unto a decade, and then accomplish absolutely nothing. But at least the clan formation system is established. Some say the costs should be reduced a bit? I think that's where the debate is. But the clan formation system is functional. Given that this is one of the oldest traditions of the game, I think that they should expand the (written/published) rules to include the steps needed to move a MMR up to a medium merchant house. And they should better establish and publish the costs of yes having a tree fort in the woods. The clan system is working so it should expanded. When people complain that "starting a clan is too expensive" this is an improvement over the old complaint of "only staff pets can start a clan." Good problem to have. You've played up until....about a couple of days ago? My experience is that a lot of the new guard are having fun helping the middle guard build indie clans, while the old guard are emeritus of the game and have graduated to playing nobles, & etc. It's busywork, but that's not a bad thing. Engaging people in a grind is something that an MMORPG should have. Making the game more social? As others have aluded, they find it isolating to be playing...a noble, a raider, and certain of the demihumans. I think you were arguing that race/class restrictions end up preventing too much potential fun. I disagree that this is true, in that I think that staff are all about having most characters socialize most of the time. Most of what I think that you're running into is a widely held misperception held by a majority of players. What I recommend is that staff clarify that very few of the game rules should restrict players from having MMORPG-style fun in the game. Ergot it doesn't impress them either to be a masochist, or to play masochist characters. The major exception to this is IMHO elves. But that is my pet project so I'll avoid using this space as a soapbox. The solo ranger thing is an authorized mini-game, it's not the way that most of us are intended to play. As far as a payment system goes, what I think the best roadmap for reform is to take a look at a functional system, such as a friendly local tabletop game night, and compare it against Armageddon. I played a couple of LARPS, gamed at a couple of sci-fi conventions. Certain games attract douchebags such as Magic the Gathering. But generally most people who are at these type of events have a good time and are happy to see each other. Honestly I've played games online that are more than twice as competitive/backstabby as Armageddon. In fact I'm internationally ranked at one. Armageddon shouldn't be such a big deal so I think that the next thing to do here is to establish trust between players. Things like flattening the karma pyramid were brilliant moves by the staff. The newer class system is IMHO freaking awesome. And one of the things that I think should happen should be compensation for the volunteers that are doing the work. I think subconciously it's a source of contention for people that they are giving their time to something, so I think that if we compensate people it will remove the temptation so common to many of us to have martyr syndrome. No more masochists, no more martyrs. Hardening I think relates to things like the gate code, as you alluded in another thread. In your opinion, you mentioned it was cool to set the no_missle flag on gate guards presumably to reduce cheezy behavior on the part of players. I don't disagree with this. It's just that the staff would say that they were better off screening for trustworthy people. This is how the US DoD does it an frankly I don't think that's a bad system either. But what I recommend is a third path, as such that they should put a bit of effort into hardening the city gates so that they have a realistic response. Attacks on the city gates are the first thing a fifteen year old hack & slasher will think to try, and if any of them are enterprising enough to put together the team of thirty mercenaries need to crash the gates, they deserve to get away with it. It's not something you should have to wish up for. Full scale attack on the city? Sure, but that hasn't happened since the days of Flint. It would be a good problem to have. 1: Revert many lore changes to be closer in line to a more realistic expectation of how a system would work, either historically, through better logical reasoning, or just copy pasting Dark Sun better. Reasoning: Armageddon has some stupid fucking lore and set up. The noble houses are clown circuses wearing different clothes, the merchant houses specialize perhaps too much for comfort, the Highlord is 'totally not a religion' but is a religion by virtue of how we NEVER see him. Love it! It was needed for political reasons that have been labeled Bride of Son of at one time for staff to reduce the level of Dark Sun reference inside of the game. Anyway the need of such has long since expired. High time says I for a reinjection of Dark Sun. One possibility I've thought of is to unveil a new city state discovered that has a lot of Dark Sun in it. Basically this is the 'I disagree with a lot of how Armageddon does things and I'm a butt hurt baby boy' slot. I disagree. Staff are asking our opinions. I don't think most of them are that bad. I think that Halaster and Delerium are two of my favorite people in the game. Halaster is the only person who has ever given me karma. And Delerium is the nicest person. She has bailed me out of a real jam once. I wouldn't say it pains me to see these two people fighting, two of my favorite people in the game, but I think for the game to have a tabletop atmosphere these sorts of extreme personalities are going to have to reach some sort of accord and agree to disagree. the reddit thing. Fuck that noise The point here is not that I am endorsing a cess pit like Reddit, the point is that staff need to begin a process where they look at where most of their time goes (stuff like the GDB), factor that against a list of things that they should admit are NOT going well (like the GDB) and once correlated, they should offsource things like this to players to run. I like the player run chat boards better than the official one. They should denationalize the things that they're clearly bombing at, if those things are stressing them out and making them hate themself. 3: Crime code needs a massive revamp but I almost want to say this is included in most changes. Perma-Crime code needs to be outright removed (But once again this is a 'Have less shit staff' situation) Love it! I also think that a lot more can be done with the existing clan code to give full-time residents of Allanak something akin to deputy status, or what have you. But generally I agree. TAdd more metal god damn. Yeah I agree and I think it relates to the fact that staff make themselves too essential to things. Who is allowed to have metal in game? Something something hey put in a ticket and then nobody will every give you a straight answer. Better idea is to just say that metal costs a minimum of 50k, and if you have that an NPC will sell you metal. It worked with siltskimmers. Liberalizing wagon ownership did nothing but good for the game. [/quote] Had some ideas for this, but I think that there are two fringe camps in the playerbase that seem to disagree, with staff caught in the middle. Some players think that the game should be an open-PK reinactment of Mad Max, and another demographic wants the game to be a MUSH. The game is not a de-facto open-PK and I think that honesty about this and clarity about when exactly you ARE allowed to PK would help a lot. Edit: Part of what we're seeing in the game is the rise of people who want the game to be Dark Sun over the people who want the game to be Mad Max. Or the people who want it to be Dune, that's the group that I want to ouster.
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ibusoe
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Post by ibusoe on Oct 25, 2022 21:21:57 GMT -5
I honestly think this guy got mental issues or is just real fucking stuipid. Gaahl was Salt Inna' Wound real name. He's not wrong. Your character was awesome. You have more of a grudge against him, than he has against you. You were the one who took the Two Moons Clan from the days of the founders to the days of an elite mercenary training school. You were the bridge, Moses of the tribe.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 26, 2022 5:36:27 GMT -5
Honestly, I think what the game needs is to be dragged behind the shed and Old Yeller'd. But I guess a mediation team is fine too. As for the thread on the GDB, my reliable source has said some interesting things about how staff are handling this internally. I don't want to blow up their spot, though, so this is what we agreed I can say about it:
1) Producers are panicking. They know locking the thread will look bad. They know responding to it the way they want to respond to it ("Abuses are in the past! We're better than the team before us!") will look bad. Halaster, Shabago, Brokkr appear to have no ideas to implement that will fundamentally improve the game's or community's conditions.
2) Producers and Admins are actively looking for ways essentially distract players, by rushing a bunch of plots and projects that were previously in the works, to make it look like more is happening right now. This secret role post by Wychokka and this unprecedented coming soon tease saying absolutely nothing useful by Shabago are two examples of such things. But it wasn't very effective, considering the thread is still ongoing.
3) Some staff members don't even know for sure what Shabago's tease post is even referring to, though the general guess is that it has to do with previous internal discussions about raising the glass ceiling overall and letting players play higher-level noble and templar roles again. Basically a way to throw some meat to the loyal players without addressing former players' concerns at all.
4) Some admins/storytellers are dissatisfied with how Producers are handling the thread. Some are privately talking about resignation if Producers fail to address abuse appropriately. Can't say who or how many, but it would definitely be enough to trigger a new call for staff. So get your applications ready, I guess.
5) In usual form, Shalooonsh has been privately cursing a lot of the griping players and even called one of them a "traitor".
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Post by jcarter on Oct 26, 2022 9:23:51 GMT -5
Arm players have such short memories. Admin goes through this we want to be better cycle every three years and nothing changes.
It's funny to see a lot of allegations on the gdb that are similar to what was posted on Reddit. Where's qwerty to demand logs and run damage control by assuring the audience that years of sexual inappropriate behavior are just made up by a single bad actor?
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Post by Azerbanjani on Oct 26, 2022 9:37:57 GMT -5
I don't know enough about Dune to say whether I want to personally kill the players wanting it or not, my mom keeps telling me to read those books but I'm already reading like 4 different series so that comes later or never, but original Dark Sun politics is, as of book 2 in the Verdant path, rather simple. And brutal.
It plays like a cut throat system. Me and Lord Borsail have an understanding. He's a pain in my side but I'm a pain in his. I'm a Templar (Or perhaps I'm another noble, in Dark Sun the nobles didn't have nearly as much power as they do in Armageddon. Dark Sun had less blood purity eugenics shit going on) and even though Lord Borsail thinks or knows I need him, my life would be easier without him. So: I draft an issue with another Templar or noble where I fabricate a reason we need to send Gladiators to the north to act as impromptu soldiers. Sucks to suck Lord Borsail. I pull some favors and now Lord Borsail is going up there as well. I coordinate with my Borsail contacts and we agree it would be 'best to have a blooded member of the family overseeing them'. I also get his personal gladiator guard to be one that has a 50/50 chance of just slitting his throat in the night.
I deliberately sabotage the supply lines, send him with less soldiers, and then I'm more or less sending him up to war.
If he comes back, hey bud great all according to plan. My genius led to this. If he doesn't....great I have one less guy to deal with. Borsail should have done better.
That's the extent that I've seen of Dark Sun politics. It's very cut throat. It's a 'easier' version of a lot of fantasy-politics you might see in better written books, though I will say it has one thing I may or may not enjoy a bit more than usual. A pitfall of some political books, especially in fantasy settings more or less, is that sometimes the characters act like sociopaths. I don't mean in a crazy murder people way, but in a 'I'm a completely logical actor devoid of all emotion' and even if they DO have emotion for the purpose of politics they functionally don't. Dark Sun seemed to have a bit more 'humanity' to it (Ironic given it's dark sun and everything is hell) and I've seen players who do this well. They have their own machinations, their own political machines, but they still care about certain people or find certain actions distasteful or hard to do (If they choose to do them). I find this an important part of making a character who does criminal activity, or politics. Where is the line drawn for that character? Will he cross it? How does that change them?
I do find it really scummy staff is, apparently, full on using the announcements as a misdirection. That's the kind of stuff you do when you have something to gain out of something.
And even if your information is wrong (God I hope it is) anyone with any self respect would notice what they are doing isn't appropriate.
Both options are terrible.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Oct 26, 2022 9:40:03 GMT -5
Arm players have such short memories. Admin goes through this we want to be better cycle every three years and nothing changes. It's funny to see a lot of allegations on the gdb that are similar to what was posted on Reddit. Where's qwerty to demand logs and run damage control by assuring the audience that years of sexual inappropriate behavior are just made up by a single bad actor? I legit think Qwety has a mental illness. It's easy to shit on a game that has given you issues in the past, it's a completely other thing to defend it so full heartedly. Even at my most fun experiences in Arm, which are less of a 'I had a great time playing this' and more of a 'That was alright I guess', I couldn't ever see myself bending over backwards like he does. The real stunning thing is ANY time there's a reddit post, though I haven't seen his crazy ass recently, he starts acting like he's the CEO of Armageddon? Redditer: I had an issue with staff, it went like this. Qwerty in the comments, acting like he fucking matters: WHEN WAS THIS? WHO WAS THE STAFFER? WHAT DAY IN GAME WAS THIS? DID YOU ASK FOR IT? Like what the fuck is he doing? If he's staff he's doing a horrible job of it if he's not staff who the fuck cares about giving him the info?
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 26, 2022 13:02:14 GMT -5
Apparently my source and I were incorrect about Shabago's announcement. They are opening the Mul Outpost as a play area and they need a leader for it. As an aside, it's incredibly bizarre that this project was kept a secret from some staff members, and apparently it has been rushed specifically due to current community sentiment that the game is boring. It was originally planned for next year. I think they are going to half-ass this and it is going to fizzle terribly.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 26, 2022 13:40:56 GMT -5
Most professional and level-headed Armageddon staff member:
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Post by Azerbanjani on Oct 26, 2022 14:24:32 GMT -5
I have several thoughts on the Mul outpost thing, most of them not good. Good idea in theory but I have a lot of qualms.
1: Things are going to change hands too often.
Because everything is going to be based on one, or even two, players the minute someone fucking dies everything changes. How many groups will be in Mul Outpost at a time? If Group 1 controls mostly everything and is 'Leader', 'Second in command', and 'Mook 1 and mook 2' assuming the first two die (And if you have a competent second in command they will be with you everywhere, so you die with them) mook 1/2 can't, or don't want to, or don't have the clout to lead. Group 1 has died.
But realistically how many people will be hanging around Mul Outpost for 'Group 2' to show up? Does that mean staff puts up a special app 5 minutes into 'Independent Mul Outpost' looking for a new leader?
Imagine, if you would, if killing the Lord Borsail completely removed Borsail off the face of the map and we now need a new Noble House to take over. Each time.
There would be an obvious problem there right? So we have an OOC/Quasi VNPC group to pull people from. Lord Borsail dies but oh that's fine, we can just app more in. And things continue on and work well. It's why Merchant Groups die off all the time in game because even though they might have small compounds and XXXXXXX sid in the bank they die and people stop giving a shit.
So why would you take that small Merchant Group and give them a whole town to themselves?
2: Everything is going to rely on Staff and...good luck People can barely get requests answered or looked at by staff let alone bothering them to institute laws, that likely won't be coded, or a crime code. Allanaki law isn't supported because a PC soldier or Templar will get mad at you, anytime those people show up we are doing social plots. Allanaki law is supported because if you break it in a way that matters a big fucking half giant shows up to kick your ass.
So if it won't be coded: HAHAHAHA
If it will: That's better
Building things being an irl monthly thing seems fine but who decides what a 'buidling' is? Is an expanded water system 'one building' or ongoing? Is a storage facility one building? A baker? Who decides or dictates this?
Why the fuck would you not allow or let it expand outwards? This isn't a strategy game you can't 'build tall' instead of 'wide'. You need more room. If it gets any population at all it NEEDS some ability to farm or it NEEDS some resource (That currently doesn't exist) to justify massive trade to feed its population.
Mul Outpost has neither fields nor resource. It will fail economically.
You lock the gates at night to keep raiders, scary animals, and thieves out you fucking fools. Every desert elf bored out of their mind is going to be fucking with anyone in the outpost that's why we lock the doors at night. 'You are expected to secure your own things' Yes, we do. By closing the damn doors.
3: This kinda shit should have been happening organically for the past 15 years but didn't because of uncaring staff or outrageous responses.
If it was as simple to run Mul Outpost by running in, murdering the leaders, and sitting on it, we'd have done this kinda shit for a long while. But as it stands staff wouldn't support this thing or would animate 50 muls to say no.
Doing it now doesn't mean staff are hip and cool.
Sadly staff doesn't read this shit nearly as much so they won't even have good ideas snuck into their brain while they seethe we shit talk them. And I can't even comment on the GDB anymore to bring up issues staff will handwave as not being a problem despite them being guaranteed to show up later as problems before being dropped or shelved.
That bit of 'raining death on critters or people who attack you' or 'having soldiers patrol the streets' is going to be severely lacking. I assume staff is going to go the 'haha just paypeopletodothisic' route meaning it'll never be sufficient or common. The gates DON'T FUCKING LOCK so people are just going to sprint in and open the gate so why bother with archer towers?
I don't get it.
I also find the quotes at the beginning and shtick insulting more than anything.
People want to play redrobes in the existing cities, not squalor in the slave town.
I'm open minded though I wouldn't say optimistic, so it could go really cool. I don't think it would ever be interesting due to staff influence however and I assume whoever does a good job of this, if any, is going to be doing so because they are a good roleplayer.
I knew several Guilders who were incredibly interesting and made the Guild fun (I never played IN the Guild though). None of the times when the Guild was 'Good' to me was it because of their docs, or because of staff, or because of the organization itself. It was because of the people in it or running it.
Advice to any fools who do this or take over
This is going to depend entirely on which staff is running it and how stupid they are, how much they care for political machinations, how much they care for actual logistic implications and economic factors, and all sorts of things. If your staffer is a dumb ass they might not ever bring up a food issue with how the Mul Outpost has no way to feed a population, water it sure but food?...no. They might also not deal with the implications of how the DOORS DO NOT LOCK
If they do though, you'll need to act like a logical actor in this game of politics. Every organization is a group with wants, desires, fears, needs. You will need to balance these needs.
You need to develop a fighting force. Good news: You have escaped slaves, and muls. I highly recommend not reinstating slavery as this will make them mad and probably leave. Perhaps leave in slaves you take from war or crime though, as that will provide labor.
You'll need to draft/basically get muls to do a lot of the heavy lifting, at least at first, due to the fact I assume you'll have a handful of people actually living there. Who the fuck knows maybe staff will give you a small army to start with. I legit don't know the situation and I doubt they really know too.
Use your starting forces, or develop them, and figure out some sort of food source. See if any of the territory nearby can grow grass or at least try. If that's a bust, herd Erdlu (That was the Dark Sun way) and live off of their eggs and the occasional dead bird. You can take them to the Mantis Valley to graze and eat insects. Maybe herd Chalton as well. You'd need people to guard them though cause DAMN MANTIS VALLEY YOU'RE SCARY.
That's one possibility assuming staff isn't ass pulling a valid food source. Someone I know suggested, I think mostly sarcastically, digging fungus tunnels. Sure, do that too. You NEED a way to provide food. Also do yourself a favor and make sure this is 'state ran' (You) so you aren't contending with a growing Noble class.
However, you do need to establish a nobility. This would easily be done with reports to staff and vnpcs and this would help lay a proper framework but staff is stupid and would probably tell you to do this IC, so depending on what power you have sell land and rights to certain areas/buildings to players or just say fuck it and get merchant houses involved. I lean against doing this. 1: Staff will probably bitch and be like 'NOOOO THEY CANT DO THAT' on either side of the fence and 2: Now some merchant bitch is going to have you assassinated because I made the taxes too high.
They also might just laugh in your face because there ain't shit there.
Anyway, sell land/buildings to establish a sort of aristocracy and have them dependent on you for food but otherwise they enjoy their own benefits (They own land, they can sell the rights to that land/become owners of businesses, we've created government)
Taxes are, largely, worthless now. You aren't minting money. Money, in a society like Allanak, represents an amount of water you can purchase from the city and is used of a material that has value due to use or aesthetical pleasure (Obsidian being both useful as a material, worthless as coins though, and jewerly). That's why gold coins tend to have value. Gold is a valuable material and can be melted into more useful forms. It also tends to be represented by a State-Nation to have a certain value.
I said 'largely worthless' but that may be a lie, obviously you benefit from having money to an extent. Armageddon is fucking awful about money either mattering too much or not at all (After the first 10k fuck getting more) but the main issue there isn't staffs ability to have a fully functional economy without it sucking, the issue is the value of your obsidian coins is solely in their ability to be traded in the city states and thus Luirs. Luirs didn't have a huge issue with this, their entire shit is trading with the city states, but the fact you're using another areas currency is both weird and means any issues they have with money production now become your issues. But even printing your own money probably would have that.
If you can actually get your own money made up somehow, preferably out of a material more useful or expensive than obsidian (Glass??), you'll be able to deal with that sort of thing.
Also if you just...make your own currency eventually that'd be neat.
However despite staff making a big fuss about this being a mini city state bullshit 'BREAK THE GLASS CEILING' I don't see the Mul Outpost printing their own coinage anytime soon. We can't debase the currency just yet and that fills me with rage. I want to destroy my own economy as I print more and more coins god damnit.
This is an idea that may attract actual merchants and investors: Advertise extremely low to no taxes. This would in every situation under the sun get the merchant houses to start building stalls the week you announce this but I imagine it may take players a longer time to get involved because....when do taxes show up in Allanak? The only taxes that you see are: Bribes (Not taxes), the price of water (Not really a tax but kind of), and with banks (More of a piece of shit fee but not really a tax). Nothing in Allanak is 'more expensive cause the templars are getting their cut'. When something is sold for more it goes to the merchant not the government. So a 250 sid wooden spear in Allanak is still going to sell for 250 in the mul outpost and the merchant has no real need to go to the Mul Outpost to sell it. Do you see the issue?
But, logically, having no taxes would be very good for attracting merchants. We also have no idea what the fucking tax rate of Allanak actually is. Usually it isn't a 'per' transaction kind of thing, though my historical knowledge varies, I think it tends to be a yearly number based on reported earnings from organizations. If you think 'This sounds like a really shitty and bad way to get taxes out of merchants' you'd be right. I think ship manifests were the same way, they'd read your reports and charge you tax based on the manifests. There were ways around getting past liars and what not, I believe a King in England would retain the ability to buy out a ship and their stock for what they claimed they had so if they under quoted their tax they'd lose out on a lot of profit.
How do you make money off the merchants then? Well a major benefit is having the merchants brings in their buildings and infrastructure and we are just offering the 'no taxes' on their goods and services. But, they still need to pay for a place to offer their wares. Even a stall in the market is benefiting from the shade of our canvas and the spears of our soldier's protections, so they need to pay whoever they are using the space of or have permits to make their trade. For market space, this is going to be a 'noble' or the government. For a whole building, they will need to be paying rent to someone and that someone who is making rent is going to eventually be paying you taxes themselves.
Another benefit is people flock to where merchants go. They want jobs with them, providing services to them, servants, etc. If you can attract them in earnest (I still doubt they'll show up) people will come.
There exists the issue of 'Now I'm being stabbed in the back by merchants' but the gradual increase of their presence should mean you are building up your own forces and strength as well. Never rely too much on one merchant house, never rely too much on the big 3 merchants (Extend the offer to independent merchants or Allanaki based ones), never let someone have too much power. You should reserve the right to deny permanent, or temporary, station of person at any time to have the legal authority to just turn away Kurac when they decide they want to buy 4 more buildings out of the 2 and 1/2 that exist there. Don't let them get too big, don't rely too much on them.
Those are big requirements for stability, they are incredibly difficult to even imagine and deal with and I can tell you right now I don't think staff has thought of half of this or would half ass it or deny most of it.
But you get the idea. Running a bustling nation state is difficult and will be fraught with hardship
Another issue is with Allanak being less than a day away most people will probably just fucking leave if they start starving, so you don't really have the luxury of people sticking out hard times unless they are escaped slaves.
What staff may envision/the likely option for all of this
Staff may just expect/assume/most people might just become a raiding clan with a nice home base, which I guess is also valid but damn that really does nothing to dispel the 'glass ceiling' bullshit they are going on about.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 26, 2022 14:31:09 GMT -5
I look at other MUDs and MUSHes and I see what they're doing to let players lead, and Armageddon is laughable by comparison.
Sindome, which is arguably an even shittier game than Arm, lets you play more powerful roles than Armageddon does. Arx lets you play as the literal king of the setting's kingdom.
It's like all these games are flying through space and Armageddon is stuck banging rocks together.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Oct 26, 2022 14:36:02 GMT -5
I look at other MUDs and MUSHes and I see what they're doing to let players lead, and Armageddon is laughable by comparison. Sindome, which is arguably an even shittier game than Arm, lets you play more powerful roles than Armageddon does. Arx lets you play as the literal king of the setting's kingdom. It's like all these games are flying through space and Armageddon is stuck banging rocks together. Our main form of combat DOES involve hitting someone with a piece of bone so we aren't too far off from rocks. It was brought up in a group I'm in but also: Armageddon doesn't have systems in place that this is worth a damn. It takes 2 weeks or more to get responses to basic requests, so anything that isn't fixed by an existing code involves pulling your own teeth out of your head. This would be an interesting thing to see happen in a smaller game, like Apoc (God rest its soul), and even then I think Apoc would do a better job because: 1: Smaller player space and area, people are invested in the area because it's basically the only place to play. 2: People were largely invested in the groups they formed and despite there being a small area there were multiple groups 3: Staff gave a damn outside of the few that were dumb as hell Staff will then not give you the tools necessary to do something, then when you complain it takes too long say they are busy or volunteers. "We have too much work to do" staff says, giving themselves even more work to do The bank system, for example, solves a lot of issues. Imagine if we didn't have the bank system and instead had to have an actual treasury. We might designate someone with this role and give them the key to the vault, or maybe a fancy key that you need 2 halves to use, (Lets ignore the hell that would be: Letting someone have access to the money), but then: It completely falls apart when they aren't online. Staff also made mention of this, sort of, in the 'Oh if we can't reach a designated time to do stuff' section (Where if you can't play at X time they set your house on fire) but they aren't even acknowledging the other plethora of issues that can happen if you don't show up, let alone being attacked. Mansa brings up an excellent point, and is too good for this game.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 26, 2022 15:06:53 GMT -5
Governorship of Tuluk was a disaster. Noble players being told that staff can't help them rebuild the city, while calling those players entitled behind their back on the IDB, because they want to rebuild the city and can't just wait for Arm 2 to come out instead. Look how that turned out. I can't imagine how running the Mul Outpost will feel when players get told that they can't do something after all. Or they put in a question with staff and don't get a response before they are killed in a power struggle. Maybe Shalooonsh will posthumously promote them. Or just insult them and call them slurs in the staff chat. (Seems more likely, all things considered!) If this proposal seems like too much for staff to handle, that's because it is! The project was rushed out the door to distract the playerbase from the feedback thread for a little while. It's probably not going to work because there are still some self-respecting former players on the GDB and they'll probably keep the thread going. They are going to have to either respond adequately or do what they always do (lock the thread). And then the Mul Outpost is going to fail because it was half-baked.
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