Jeshin
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Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 14, 2018 14:10:13 GMT -5
Looks like valenkudos is happening which is evidently some kind of period where players are encouraged to send kudos to those they enjoyed playing with. It's possible that there was some general amensty given out or you were banned for a set time and/or some limitation in the request tool required unbanning you to fulfill sending the kudos.
All that we know is that you have been Noted, taken Note Of, perhaps your words were Marked...
I didn't get any Kudos which is hurtful because when I was playing back in 2007 I felt like I was pretty okay </3
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on May 7, 2017 22:20:59 GMT -5
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 23, 2017 22:49:31 GMT -5
This article gives some context to game economies not only for MUDs but other genres. It explains the different challenges and provides two suggested methods of handling economies in your own games. The Article
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 16, 2017 22:45:42 GMT -5
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 7, 2017 23:42:03 GMT -5
optionalrealities.com/Hey, So Optional Realities 3.0 has been launched. It's simple. It's back to basics. It's a community resource available to anyone interested. There will be monthly paid contests, there will be weekly articles, and Giller is currently working on updating the visual look as well. If you check it out, thank you. If you post, thank you even more. If you post a lot, I guess we can discuss the sexual favours I owe you. [NOTE: All previous links will not work as they go to 1.0 and the lost database]
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 12:32:18 GMT -5
Ah no, I saw those. I thought when people were referring to staff breaking their own rules they were referring to something I saw... GDB... Here?
It was something like... Staff cannot initiate plots/animations just to harm/rob a player? It must have been the GDB, so I thought it was someone referencing like a staff animation ruleset.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 12:22:58 GMT -5
You lost me Grumble. My post is trying to draw attention to an overlooked issue within Anaiah's issue.
Granted by Noted Liar Nergal
Bardlyone,
We don't make any sort of distinction if a PC is male or female. As staff, our responsibility is to animate the world in response to a PC, and staff's reasoning can cover a great deal of things - from unusual social behavior or choices for a setting, to being in a dangerous location amidst threats, and more. For example, it is known that Allanakis wear tight but non-revealing clothing and the Gaj is a low-class tavern: a crude place with crude people. If your PC acts like they have a bubble around themselves protecting them from criticism, robbery, and so on, staff will seek to pop that bubble immediately. You decided to break away from docs further by having your character commit suicide over something that your average Allanaki would experience quite regularly if they acted and dressed like Tivona.
I am not trying to be mean when I say the above, or the following: you need to understand that this entire game is a collaborative effort that hinges on people playing fairly typical characters for the setting. If you seek to play the exception over and over, you are going to get exceptional treatment, over and over, and it will often skew to the negative. Be more mindful of the lines and find ways to be creative while mostly staying within them. It is definitely doable and many players play compelling character swhile bearing in mind that their characters are truly Zalanthan.
Your Question has been resolved.
This response indicates the animations are meant to draw light to Anaiah's atypical character and evidently encourage her to play more typical characters. So the animations are supposed to be "correcting behaviour" but if that is the intent to pop the bubble and bring Anaiah's playstyle back to "realism" than the entire way they go about it is really not good at changing behaviour at all. For example lets assume Anaiah never sent in the question about what was going on. Would she just keep getting hostile animations with no attempt to communicate why by staff? That's not going to "fix" anyones wayward RP behaviour like they want it too.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 11:48:28 GMT -5
Grumble's post also brings another thing to mind...
Correcting Behaviour
Nergal claims that Anaiah is playing an atypical character and that if she continues to play atypical characters she will continue to have more animations skewing towards negative. Now Anaiah is a former staffer, longtime veteran, so we can surmise the defense for this is that she should know better and that repeated animations are justified. Okay sure, lets accept that for a moment.
How would a newbie in a skirt who was very similar to Anaiah be treated? Would they get an animation as hostile? Would they get an animation at all? Would they get a request tool note saying hey you're doing this and that is atypical just so you know? How would staff handle it, would they even care?
Back to Anaiah. One would assume that Anaiah was staff so staff trusted her at some point. If her concept of a Zalanthan character is no longer in line with staff why didn't they contact her before an animation? If they have contacted here, can we see those contact logs? Why are animations considered a good way to adjust player behaviour. I mean lets say that Anaiah never sent in her question (not a complaint, correcting myself on this one). Would she just have continued to get hostile animations related to sexuality/whoring/sluthood? Would that have somehow corrected her behaviour by making the game unwelcoming to what she thought was a normal character concept?
It's almost better if the staff had claimed that it was just a gritty world animation to show characters the world isn't as safe as they think it is, but they claimed it was due to an atypical character... So it must have been corrective right?
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 11:18:46 GMT -5
I posted my initial response to Sirra right when that edit went through, it looks like. So I'll double post with an answer to "But right. The problem at Armageddon isn't staff, it's the RP culture of the players, or our behavior on boards, or whatever. Come on man. "
RP culture is a byproduct of the way staff choose to provide content into the game. While players contribute to RP culture they can't fundamentally change it unless staff are in favor of that change. Thus the infamous GDB quote "Be the change" is entirely misleading. However a story based RP culture with activity can keep a game chugging even with the craziest of staff.
Lack of competition means the game isn't taking advantage of its medium. MUDs being a different medium than video games and excelling in different areas. The lack of competitiveness is from RP culture and poor staffing.
Case and point: Haven RPG has batshit insane staff who lie just like Armageddon staff and have WAY more sexually questionable rule changes and scenes... But... Haven RPG also has Daed who is a generally beloved storyteller who puts story above all else and thus the game gets a pass from a lot of people because of Daed's passion in bringing the metaplot to life.
Which led to my final point. "People do not forgive bureaucracy. People will forgive earnest and passionate staffers who can admit a mistake and have the story at heart. When people see the story is above all else, they will forgive a lot." Armageddon could limp by and be successful in spite of its staffing problems if it could fix its other problems. All added up staff issues and game issues it's dying. I wasn't being staff apologist I was outlining why I thought the game was dying while other games can have bad staff but still get along.
EDIT - At no point did I blame this board or any board for the death of Armageddon. Nor did I say the staff issues weren't issues. I didn't once blame the players.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 11:02:20 GMT -5
Former staff in the last GDB thread began breaking ranks with the active staff position and bringing up concerns. Some of them even took credit for contributing to the current staff culture. While active staff may not have publicly acknowledge their wrong doings there are plenty of former staff that are beginning to come around and in a public manner. That's pressure.
Having an accurate depiction of a complaint and the events leading up to a complaint is also pressure. The less dismissal and wiggle room the staff have in contesting a complaint the more they have to hide it (doesn't work) or ignore it (which draws attention to it for active players). This is also pressure.
My goal in recent posts is not to protect the staff or their feelings. It's to try and keep as accurate a representation of Anaiah's problem as possible so that it adds into the other valid complaints on this board (and others). Eventually the game will slip under 20 avg users or the staff will succumb to the pressure of to many valid complaints and take some kind of action. Whether it's an action we'll agree with is totally up in the air, but it's going to happen eventually.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 10:36:40 GMT -5
A lot of the things I was seeing (from Grumble) and TMC from Clearsight seemed to be drawing attention to the sexual nature of it. Thus my concern that the wrong issue is being brought up. Essentially this board operates on "Name and Shame" which is where the misconduct of people are brought to light and they are publicly tied to it to be held accountable. The effectiveness of name and shame relies on the "shame" or misconduct being properly represented when brought to the public. But I may have just been focusing on the wrong parts of the posts.
I have never heard of a staff code of conduct, if someone has a link to it that'd be awesome. If a former staffer would like to enlighten me as to the line items of it that'd be awesome too.
Now to the scandal! What is worse the questionable duo of animations? The Nergal treatment of Anaiah when the complaint was brought? Or the sweep it under the rug and preventation of it being brought to the publics attention by Nergal on the GDB? Personally for me it'd be in reverse order with GDB coverup being worse than complaint handling which was worse than the animations. If anything this was a problem that grew worse over time not because the initial incident was so terrible but because of Nergal's handling of a player complaint and then coverup on the GDB when the player tried to point out him throwing the doublespeak.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 9:24:10 GMT -5
I think horrible sick shit is a bit strong. At worst they harassed Anaiah and were offensive. At worst they resorted to calling a female they didn't agree with a slut (ICly). To imply that staff wanted "sexual favors" or something from there would be pretty misleading and inflammatory. Let us not forget incident #1 of elf dying in arena was probably a player. So the staff did a fuck you animation (one they have done many of times, remember Elrum 'banished' Irofel was banished?) and then the staff did an inappropriately sexual animation. Like each one by itself is just bad form but not a huge deal. Only taken together with the numerous times the word slut/whore is used does it even blip on the radar as not okay. Why isn't it okay because it seems to be following the PLAYER and not the CHARACTER around. I like Anaiah but Grumble, you shouldn't be conflating staff mistakes/misconduct with crimes or sick shit because that is like using a gun in a knife fight. It was inappropriate. It was offensive (to the player). It was mismanaged when complaints were brought up. EDIT - Like whoever Clearsight is on TMC - www.mudconnect.com/SMF/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=77777 - isn't doing anyone any favours. They aren't smearing Armageddon effectively (if that is their intent). They aren't bringing to light any complaints they have with the game. They aren't making a case anyone will believe, understand, or care about. In reality they just provide fuel for identity politics to lump all Armageddon dissenters in with them, then ignore us "for being the same"
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 12, 2017 1:02:54 GMT -5
Hey,
So I've had a few conversations with Bitterflashback about his theory regarding the two primary factions of PLAYERS and the issues they cause with the game. Due to personal inability to sufficiently consolidate his idea into something concrete from a game design perspective, I will instead be offering an alternative outline of the Armageddon culture and what is 'killing the game'. This isn't a dissenting opinion from Bitters since the player archetypes he laid out can still be a social cause of these problems, but alas I find myself unable to really write up a compelling post within that speculative framework.
TLDR - Jeshin can't jive with cliquey retards and driven individualists and has to make up his own ideas because he sucks.
Armageddon is a long running game and like most things that have over a decade of time hanging on them, it has issues. These issues are not static and with the turnover amongst staff they are set in stone either. It should be noted I have not played Armageddon in years. I have kept up with the game and I do take many of the stories on these boards (and others) with a grain of salt. That's one of the reasons I am a big proponent of logs and revealing request tool transcripts. I don't want your story. I don't want the staffs story. I just want the logs. Sadly that isn't always possible so you use incomplete and probably biased information to make assessments. Despite my grain of salt approach to things it should also be noted that where there is smoke there is often fire.
1. Dwindling Player Numbers
The engine that drives any game is the player population. This is a cyclical benefit and problem. When you login and see a game with a high number of players you think there is a good chance of interaction and it is popular. If you login and see a game with a low number of players you think you might not have much interaction when you're free to play or maybe the game is dying. If Armageddon is avging 30 people it's not "to low" but it's certainly not the 70+ it used to be.
Low numbers but high quality isn't really a good thing. It might be for a short period of time but players have real life happen and if you're not replenishing your playerbase with new curious users than you're going to continue to slip down the avg user count as you "age out" of your players. This is why quantity has its own quality, as someone said, somewhere.
2. Problematic Staffers
There is a difference between a staff culture and problematic staffers. Armageddon has decades under its belt and a cheating admin or a textual asshole or an apologist isn't enough of a blip on the radar to affect the likely 50+ staffers that have worked on the game at one point or another. The biggest problem with problematic staffers is that historically they have been fairly prominent within the hierarchy of the staff. If they did not hold significant position themselves they had the blessings of the higher ups with their actions (such as the plot to invade luirs).
Problematic staffers have ruffled feathers, burnt bridges, and put other staff in the position of supporting via silence or supporting via actual support of their questionable actions. We all know the famous, Nyr moderates the boards because if he didn't do it no one else would. Yet once again Nergal is the primary responder and moderator of the boards and the other staff are silent. Yet again a single person (who happens to be a producer/higher up) is the only one interested in moderating the boards and engaging with players?
3. Staff Culture
Staff culture is separate from problematic staffers because their individual mistakes no matter how bad or how prevalent in their tenure doesn't affect the staff culture of the problem. The staff culture is what shapes these staffers to act and speak in a certain way. Anecdotally I liked Euoryonomous (or however you spell it) for a month or two when he first became staff. I was playing Elrum 'banished' Irofel at the time and thought he was positive and upfront. However during that same tenure Nyr was admining the north and I could see Euro's responses beginning to mirror the same sentiments that Nyr would send me. This isn't surprising. Staff talk, they share stories, they band together as people running the game. I've been on staff, it's part of being staff. I've joked about players not getting the big picture before on private staff comms. I've pointed out this player doing this ridiculous thing before to another staffer. The difference is that I always promoted nuturing players. The staff culture during my time as a staffer (on another game) never taught me to be a dick to players. It never taught me that if they don't like it they can leave. It never taught me that I should ignore a complaint.
In this way Armageddon has had a fairly consistent staff culture, but it has evolved over time. The staff have withdrawn from the players, learned less is more when discussing sensitive topics or dealing with player complaints. They've adopted a "rip the bandaid off quick" approach to sensitive problems. They've adopted a single voice approach when they need to depict the staff as united on a topic. The staff culture has evolved to protect its shortcomings instead of removing them.
4. RP Culture
This is the player portion of the game. RP culture is more or less what the norm is. Do people say (nodding) Yeah. Lets spar. or do people say (looking from right to left, his hand against the hilt of ~obsidian.sword) We need to get off the street and findout what shit we're in. I think they're watching us... Do people go out and spar every 90 min or hunt beetle #984731290874097 or drink beer #417329471278041 hoping for something to fall into their laps? Do they turn hunting beetle #infinity into an adventure? Do they say fuck beetles lets find steinal, or go on a long hunting trip for some character development or gather a bag of spice to smuggle into Lord fancybritches for some money to buy an assassin for Bynner Dickweed.
RP culture is important because when you go from proactive to reactive, everyone is waiting, everyone is at a standstill, and the onus falls onto staff and sponsored roles to provide content instead of people driving content themselves. A wait and see RP culture can be ineffective at hooking newbies to staying with the game and cause veterans to turn into bitter vets (as EvE Online refers to burnout players).
5. Uncompetitive
I do not mean uncompetitive in the sense that the game doesn't promote competition. I mean uncompetitive because Armageddon is no longer playing to its strengths. MUDs are a unique medium they offer all the creativity of being writer within a setting with none of the drawbacks of having to render 3D or even 2D models of these stories. It is the high of storytelling. It is the feeling of being able to talk to people about an RP scene from years ago and have them talk back to you about it like it really happened... Because it was a shared memory, something unique at some point that is a shared experience.
How does Armageddon push stories and character moments? How are the RPTs and HRPTs run by staff really branching away from repetition and cliche to try and do something different? Why can't spider nest RPT #9841709437 really not be about spiders at all but mcguffin or some mercenaries stirring up trouble to bribe the templerate, or whatever...
When you play Armageddon you should never feel like your time would be better spent playing another MMO or single player video game. You should always feel like the MUD you are playing is exactly the kind of experience you're looking for. Not a game, not a book, but something where you have agency to tell your story.
Conclusion
You can have shitty staffers. You can have a poor staff culture. It won't help you. It will make everything harder. It will lose you some of the people you need most. But the thing that is killing Armageddon is that its RP culture is failing and it's not longer competing within the space it should be competing. Bureaucracy is not how to create compelling moments or even a compelling game world. People do not forgive bureaucracy. People will forgive earnest and passionate staffers who can admit a mistake and have the story at heart. When people see the story is above all else, they will forgive a lot.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 10, 2017 16:29:26 GMT -5
Hey,
Do you have a request tool transcript? Have you been the victim of "not perfect but nothing ever is" staff responses? Then you're in luck my friends. For if you copy me the request tool chain in question I (personally) will re-write the staff response to the same conclusion without offending or condescending to you! For every time I fail, you can be that more self-assured that Armageddon staff are doing a tip top job in their responses. Every time I succeed you can wonder, why didn't they do that?
Disclaimer: Posting request tool transcripts/logs is probably against a rule. It was back in 2007-2008. You may be banned for posting.
This is mostly just a tongue in cheek exercise, but I will reply to any request tool logs posted with my makeshift staff response. If someone can nitpick them, points to you.
EDIT - If I think the staff were completely A-OKAY, I will re-write your response to be less condescending/offensive/etc
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Mar 10, 2017 11:45:02 GMT -5
Bardlyone is Anaiah who is former staff.
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