Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 18:19:35 GMT -5
The game currently has four large roleplay stages to play on, and arguably four small ones. I'm counting South wilderness, Allanak, Luirs and the desert elf Pah as large. I'm counting Red Storm, the Labyrinth, the current high karma rogue mage group (wherever they are), and Morins as small. There arent enough players on the grass or in Cenyr to qualify as a group roleplay environment.
Allanak is a social sphere where you cant get away from the burglar, templar, or merchant griefers.
Luirs has a high power combat storyline ongoing. Its also nearly empty after a recent rpt.
The desert elves still shoot almost anyone who isnt an elf.
The four smaller stages have active griefer groups or single high powered pcs with pk tendencies.
The southern wilderness is the stage where a hunter pc can still have some playtime with those in Allanak.
At least two Wind pcs have each killed more pcs than many previously banned players.
We dont (collectively) need a random griefer experience in a shrinking game. You have had your moments of cruelty. Why not store and let others have the stories of their pcs?
With the karma reviews frozen, there isnt an option to get more karma in order to get an instakill option to deal with the Wind, like a Tempest whiran or a destruction krathi.
The Wind is already causing power play. Since at least one of them is a good deal ahead in playtime, the only ways to deal with a confrontation are going to get progressively more abusive of the game code and environment. The activity of these raiders is going to drive people to cheat or leave. It will not add anything else to the game that hasnt already been experienced.
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Post by shakes on Apr 3, 2018 18:30:30 GMT -5
They kill ya, brah?  I really don't know that they're that big of a problem. They wax and wane in power. They should be moving upwards, not be storing because they became too good. Why are they still raiding grebbers after all this time when they should be hitting caravans or towns? They should be engaged in RPT level activities not newb-robbing. But of course you can't tell who is a newb until you kill them and you get banned like me. I lay any grief the Wind is causing solely on the heads of staff, not a bunch of players who achieved. Amon HAS plans to progress beyond grebber-robbing but if staff won't help him then he's stuck. ETA: Think of it like this ... a tabletop DM who is still throwing level 1 kobolds at his level 10 players is probably a crappy DM. |
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jenki
Clueless newb
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Post by jenki on Apr 3, 2018 20:15:48 GMT -5
Personally I like the Crimson Wind. I think they are good for the game.
Instead of having gith come and kill me, I have these guys who I can theoretically negotiate with. They probably don't want to kill me, but what do they want? I don't know, it's something I'd have to figure out, or ask them. I think of them as kind of like templars of the desert, except they have no sorcerer king to back them up, they are on their own. This is why they aren't much of a threat. They are a sentient sentient danger to an area that doesn't already have anything. And for those playing a member, they are an opportunity to take a break and to "get away from it all", as a way to play in a different venue.
Even if their role is to be big jerks and stink up their surroundings, that's better than nothing.
As far as your character's story goes.... Every great protagonist has their antagonist.
If you can't beat them, you could try to join them.
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Post by legendary on Apr 3, 2018 20:43:54 GMT -5
I think most players would be grateful for a kobold, even a literal one at this point.
There have been a lot of PCs known for killing a lot of other PCs and in their day, they're usually vilified by players outside the game. We like to look back at the Fangs and the Rebellion fondly now, but there was a lot of indiscriminate killing going on that people really hated on at the time. Everyone is sore about it today until staff do something to stop it, then later we lament how nothing is going on and we're sitting in taverns, waiting for kobolds to fall from the sky.
If there is a real problem with some players going around killing in excess, remember that you have the same tools they do.
Kill them.
You don't even need to justify it. If they're well-known raiders, you can kill them for justice or cold, hard cash. Raise a posse and go kill them. Get them alone in their apartment with a few assassins one at a time, ambush them ranged weapons or dogpile them with superior numbers. Use your head and remember that coded pack bonus is the great equalizer. You don't need a group of 50 day heroes, a half dozen really pissed off grebbers with pitchforks will do just fine if you're smart about it.
Greed is all you need to justify murder and if history is any indication, people playing raiders like to fill every possible equipment slot with the most expensive or "shocking" thing they can find. Do you think Hassan was wearing all that shit because it was practical? It's trophies, it's showing off. It's a big fuck you to all the people you killed, or died trying to kill you. I'm sure they have lots of very nice things your angry mob would love to sell for profit.
In all the years I've been playing the game, the number of characters who have been so unbalancing as to warrant an out of character action, are few. As in, I can count them on one hand. I did, just now. One hand. The number of deadly dangerous PCs, run by clever players, who were killed by staff or out of character collusion because people were too lazy and whiny to find an IC solution? I'd need a lot more hands. Too many hands.
Unless they're hard cheating or treating Arm like a text-based RUST, meet the challenge for what it is: An IC one.
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seuly
Clueless newb
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Post by seuly on Apr 3, 2018 22:52:19 GMT -5
Isn't it the rumor that some of the Crismon Wind are Staff Avatars?
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Post by legendary on Apr 3, 2018 23:28:54 GMT -5
I've heard of them around the game, but never really encountered them personally that I know of. I don't think staff PCs would be running around indiscriminately killing people, though. The latest iteration of Arm staff seem more interested in cultivating the fantasy of personal social power. That is, most of them monitor their own PCs interactions or furnish themselves with ic/ooc benefits to help achieve whatever let's them get off on their interpretation of being important.
I'm a bit curious about it now, though.
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foobar
Clueless newb
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Post by foobar on Apr 4, 2018 2:35:41 GMT -5
Seriously?
I love the Crimson Wind. There have been a steady source of conflict, plots and just made things happen. Some of these plots have left ripples in game that no longer have anything to do with the Crimson Wind, but still affect other players.
And yes, I have been PKed by them, on a character I had played for some time and still regret losing. But they did everything they could to make sure I had a good time as a player, and I did. That death was so much better than dying to some random NPC, stupid mistake or a critical fail at the wrong time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 6:04:15 GMT -5
Crimson Wind isn't shit.
No, I was not PK'd by them,
but I was present for their creation.
Here's how it happened, in short story form - Cw starts raiding, Kurac (at the time had a handful of legacy, 50 day+ old rangers/warriors) kills their mul.
Immediately after, all of the kuraci players are killed off systematically by a staff avatar sorceror, or just a staff animation.
With no one to kill/fight Crimson Wind, they reign and start doing stupid shit like raiding kuraci wagons and getting 60k per member, signet rings,
or custom made sets of ankheg armor, mastercrafted, or magickal swords, I can keep going.
Considering how hard it is to get an animation other than to kill you, its a wonder how this SMALL clan got more staff support/gear that I've ever seen handed out than some of the much bigger clans out there.
(If this isn't staff alts/pets, please correct me)
And yes. you can kill crimson wind. The way you guys are talking about facing them is a bunch of warrior mumbo jumbo.
Crew it up and kill them. Make an asssassin/outdoorsman and heramide the poor bastard. Or....here's a good one - Make a ranger.
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OT
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by OT on Apr 4, 2018 8:56:41 GMT -5
Why are they still raiding grebbers after all this time when they should be hitting caravans or towns? They should be engaged in RPT level activities not newb-robbing. But of course you can't tell who is a newb until you kill them and you get banned like me. I lay any grief the Wind is causing solely on the heads of staff, not a bunch of players who achieved. Amon HAS plans to progress beyond grebber-robbing but if staff won't help him then he's stuck. Yeah, that's the decade-old problem right there. A lot of people should be doing something different, but when staff won't facilitate it, there's really just nothing you can do. Then it becomes a question of 'do we want raiders in the game at all or do we want the danger of the gameworld to be a total lie?' The raider is just about the only role where you truly have a reason to attack random strangers completely unprovoked, and if the game starts to send the message that not even they can do it, the last illusion of Zalanthan harshness dies. Ideally they could be hitting caravans and towns, but if there are none to hit, they have to make do with what the game allows. I'd rather the players with that inclination have a role available to them where it isn't completely jarring when they do it, instead of them playing soldiers and "hunters" who seek out every possible opportunity to land a cheeky pkill just for the sake of feeling like they got one over on another player. When they do that, you get into this situation where everyone's scared to even meet others one-on-one because there are real odds that it's someone who's trawling the city for people to kill. When that goes on, it does noticeable damage to general roleplay as people stop trusting anyone outside their Skype groups. It's better that the trigger-happy pkers are a known quantity that you can predict and react to in a meaningful fashion. There are assholes and griefers on Armageddon. Sometimes they're even buddies with staff, or have a big enough group of OOC friends that they'll always have IC allies no matter how heinous their actions. It's better that they do their thing in a way that actually fits the game. At worst it's confined to a part of the game that you can avoid, unlike the world-traversing rogue mages of the post-Reborn period who just existed for the purpose of combing Zalanthas for people to kill without any substance to it beyond "I'm a dangerous badass." The Crimson Wind sounds like one of the rare organic player initiatives of today's Armageddon. It's certainly more interesting than all the contrived nonsense that goes on, like gladiator PCs who go around emoting about all their fans when in reality they're so boring and artificial that no PC gives the remotest shit about them. The game needs more of the stuff that happens when players have the ambition to put something together rather than signing up for the latest thing that staff installed into the game to uphold the illusion that there's something going on. If the collective playerbase is unable to deal with a handful of outlaws who have no NPC guards or anything, all this shows is the sorry state of the Armageddon community. These aren't gypsies who have an entire area devoted to them with NPC guards and everything. They aren't backed by templars or kept safe by crimecode. They're just some dudes who raid people in the desert. If nobody can stop them, it sounds like the game is severely lacking in experienced, resourceful players who know their way around the code. Presumably these guys are ordinary PCs, not the farcical abominations that were created back in 2008 when some staff members thought it would be fun to give select characters extra powers. |
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Post by shakes on Apr 4, 2018 12:12:28 GMT -5
Amon is the only core of it left, and while he's pretty tough, he's not invincible. I saw him nearly go down several times in the various times and characters I was in the Crimson Wind. He'll go out of the way not to just rofl-stomp you if you can give him even the remotest reason not to.
But he also doesn't attack Red Stormers whether they're in the Wind or not. You want to play a southern hunter? Play from Red Storm, wear a Red Storm cloak, and hail the local hero who is sticking it to those Nakkies. You'll have unfettered access to the south and still be able to go into Nak for your Gaj rp.
But much preferable to that is join him for a stint in the Wind and you'll have some serious fun and good roleplay.
Pretty much some of my best memories of Arm come out of hanging around Amon.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 4, 2018 12:15:02 GMT -5
So the Crimson Wind is an official raiding clan? Do you they have like gicker members or something? I'm having difficulty understanding how someone(s) can be untouchable vs maxed rangers. I mean if they have magickal weapons or armor or something maybe, I've never seen non-gickers using those. More information for the peanut gallery?
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Post by shakes on Apr 4, 2018 12:29:18 GMT -5
It's a raiding clan, but I don't think it was officially sanctioned. At least back in the day they got were heavily monitored and told to keep the PK down to a minimum. They pretty much weren't allowed to kill you unless you ran from them. But a fast talker who didn't ran and just greeted them with an offer would usually be left alone. Even those who ran I wouldn't usually kill. I'd cut off a hand or use a whip on them.
My strongest character in the Wind was the Beast of Red Storm who was a warrior/Ruk protector. He started as a secret gick but ended up outed when a gith warband attacked us just as the other guy I was with lost link. Stoneskin, killed all the gith, and then had to stand there like a rock when the guy reconnected and looked at me. He kept my secret for a long time but eventually he told Amon, who just glared at me but didn't kill me or throw me out. As I branched more spells I got bolder and bolder until I used Godspeed to run into a room with 8 hidden spiders and died fast. Thus ends the gickery.
There's no magic weapons or armor, no special stuff. Amon did manage to get a hideout built (a 2 room affair) or at least assigned to him (maybe it was there before him and just got repurposed) but it's in a secret location and poorly protected. It would only take a couple of assassins to turn the secret hideout into a closed-room deathtrap. Amon took a break for a long time, either fed up or bored, but he recently came back and is trying to recruit up again, I think.
There's some secrets there I won't disclose because it might ruin someone's fun, but it never appeared to me to be staff nonsense. No flaming swords of doom or special powers that I ever witnessed across about 5-6 characters in the Wind. A raider life is short lived no matter what, unless you're a very skilled dwarf warrior who knows how to avoid certain bits of trouble.
I also found that raider life was a lot of time looking for targets who were hard to catch. Usually you'd just run into a grebber without a mount 8 rooms away from the gate and try to position so they couldn't get away. But if they really wanted to they usually would be able. So you'd just remember their description and the next time not open with a discussion. Amon had a ton of tricks for trying to get people to stop and talk so he could strongarm them, but plenty of people managed to avoid us for RL weeks until we found them dead in the sand, killed by a spider or a scrab.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 12:53:08 GMT -5
I didnt expect to change anyones mind.
I'd like to point out that people here have suggested that after being pked, its okay to build a next pc for the express purpose of killing the raider who got you, by one means or another. This strikes me as poor play.
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Post by shakes on Apr 4, 2018 13:10:08 GMT -5
It depends. If you build a "raider hunting bounty hunter" and then go about roleplaying that and building up skills and a client base and your own bounty hunter team then I would think that's cool AND so probably would those raiders. If you build a character and throw yourself immediately at the person who killed you 15 minutes out of chargen then that's probably not okay. But also probably not successful. There's so much dodgy shit going on in Arm though that I can't say one way or another what would be fine for the public at large. But I know I always had the most fun when I had an opposite number who was trying to get me and liked it even better when they were pretty good at it. You're going to die anyway. Better to a long-running plot full of manipulation and fun than to 8 NPC spiders. |
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Post by legendary on Apr 4, 2018 13:34:15 GMT -5
I don't believe anyone has said that, actually.
The fact of the matter is, raiders raid with the expectation that they're going to draw conflict onto themselves. If you're so raging mad that you're coming to these forums to post about how terrible they are for the game and that they need to voluntarily store for the good of "everyone", you should consider solving your apparent problem with the means you have available to you. You have a perfectly good justification for forming up a band of heroes/killers to go bring them to justice/score some loot. They're raiders, they're waiting for you to come and get them, so go and get them.
Tipping your nose up at contrary opinion and declaring "poor play" might work on the GDB, but I doubt you'll find much success with it here.
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