Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 18:04:36 GMT -5
It's a shame the Circle is closing. One of the requirements to advance once you're a Seeker is getting mastercraft instrumentmaking (which all circle bards can get with staff assistance) and making a personalize normally unique instrument design to demonstrate you're competent in that field. Steal a bards unique instrument and you'll generate an RPT or 5.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 18:09:35 GMT -5
I like burglars WAY more than pickpockets. I've always felt pickpockets skill-list are way too focused, and branched really idiotically. This addition was great, but it didn't make pickpockets appealing to me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 19:28:12 GMT -5
The thing is that stealing is kind of PvP, only without actual fighting (ideally). It's a bit of a thrill, it's a crime committed against another player's character. Even if they don't find out because you succeeded the steal check, you fucked with somebody and there was a chance that it would backfire and lead to conflict. It's actually one of the only ways you can really fuck with somebody codedly without actually attacking them or using debilitating spells. There's something immensely satisfying and surprisingly exciting about stealing someone's valuable shit.
Burglarizing an apartment is completely tedious and non-interactive. I mean, technically there's a chance that the guy who lives there is home or comes home during the break-in, but let's get real. I've played two reasonably long-lived burglars and simply never had that happen. Apartments are empty 95% of the time and you can always knock first and ask for Amos if someone opens.
Pickpocketing is much more interesting and interactive. It's better gameplay and better for roleplay, and while people can be really shitty towards thieves, I think most players would prefer to have something stolen from them over having their apartment robbed -- and consequently left unlocked for as long as you're gone, potentially a couple of RL days, often resulting in you finding it completely empty by the time you return. And for all that we've established how poorly people handle theft, a master pickpocket is still something that will impress other players more than a master burglar. Who the fuck ever gave two shits about a master burglar? It's not an accomplishment in any way.
Even aside from all that, I also just prefer the pickpocket guild. Burglars don't get scan, can't branch parry, and don't get good enough at peek/steal anyway to genuinely have both types of crime covered. Backstab also caps too low to be worthwhile. Although they get poisoning and pretty good throwing, you can't turn a burglar into a good fighter. The guild isn't good enough at PvP that I would ever care to try to PvP with it, and breaking into apartments is such a shitty, limited thing to specialize in.
A pickpocket can actually become a pretty decent fighter, certainly to the extent of beating up gith and not-yet-badass fighter PCs. With a parry cap of 45 (and it's easily branched, you only need to raise dual-wield by 20 points from its starting value) and the option of using bludgeon weapons, not to mention a good chance of rolling AI agility even if you go str>agi, you can turn a pickpocket into an entirely decent combatant. And that's my experience from before the advanced subguilds, it should be even better now.
If you plan to do stealthy semi-PvP shit - not necessarily PKing but stuff like spying, robbing, helping others PK by stealing someone's weapons before the gank - scan is invaluable. I don't think I would ever try to do anything like that on a guild without scan. You leave yourself so open to getting countered and ambushed, or just unable to pull something off because the other people involved are hidden.
For an all-around character, I genuinely prefer pickpocket if I'm not feeling like embarking on the much, much greater task of training up a ranger, warrior or assassin. You can do a lot of cool shit with a pickpocket. Your combat skills cap around the level where fighters plateau anyway, and only a tiny fraction of PCs advance beyond that point. You're the only class besides warrior that can get parry without investing 20+ days of sparring first (you can do it in like two days). You have a very unique ability in master peek+steal, especially now that you can open people's containers. You have a relatively unique ability to directly fuck with other PCs without actually attacking them.
I'm not saying it's a powerful class, but people tend to write pickpockets off as useless and pointless. I think they're great.
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Post by sirra on Apr 26, 2015 20:24:43 GMT -5
One thing about pickpockets is that they start with dramatically lower Offense/Defense than warrior/ranger/assassin. Such that for a pickpocket to reach a newbie warrior's level in Off/Def, they'd have to put in a not inconsiderable effort.
But as twink said, it's not like you'd have much interest in fighting on a pickpocket anyways.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 20:51:05 GMT -5
I don't think it's that much lower. Or, rather, I don't think the others start all that high. There's a difference but it's minor. I joined the Byn with a pickpocket and was beating new warriors after about a week. I had also branched parry by then and probably maxed it, but this was before visible skill levels. Offense and defense are easy to raise when they're low because you can just miss all day. This is also why there's nothing special about getting a 20 point boost to a weapon skill at creation, those are the easiest points to gain. It's the 40+ territory that starts to take real time and effort.
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calk
staff puppet account
Posts: 47
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Post by calk on Apr 26, 2015 21:02:04 GMT -5
I don't think it's that much lower. Or, rather, I don't think the others start all that high. There's a difference but it's minor. I joined the Byn with a pickpocket and was beating new warriors after about a week. I had also branched parry by then and probably maxed it, but this was before visible skill levels. Offense and defense are easy to raise when they're low because you can just miss all day. This is also why there's nothing special about getting a 20 point boost to a weapon skill at creation, those are the easiest points to gain. It's the 40+ territory that starts to take real time and effort. I've had similar experiences. Pickpockets actually have a huge advantage over assasins and rangers starting out that more than makes up for their lower off/def. They branch parry ridiculously quickly (apprentice dual_wield)
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 26, 2015 23:27:25 GMT -5
The thing is that stealing is kind of PvP, only without actual fighting (ideally). It's a bit of a thrill, it's a crime committed against another player's character. Even if they don't find out because you succeeded the steal check, you fucked with somebody and there was a chance that it would backfire and lead to conflict. It's actually one of the only ways you can really fuck with somebody codedly without actually attacking them or using debilitating spells. There's something immensely satisfying and surprisingly exciting about stealing someone's valuable shit. YES. Exactly. Planting stuff is incredibly fun as well. Burglarizing an apartment is completely tedious and non-interactive. I mean, technically there's a chance that the guy who lives there is home or comes home during the break-in, but let's get real. I've played two reasonably long-lived burglars and simply never had that happen. Apartments are empty 95% of the time and you can always knock first and ask for Amos if someone opens. ... And for all that we've established how poorly people handle theft, a master pickpocket is still something that will impress other players more than a master burglar. Who the fuck ever gave two shits about a master burglar? It's not an accomplishment in any way. As much as I love PPs, I won't write off burglars for fucking with people. Yes emptying an apartment is entirely lame. You can't judge a guild by what uncreative people do with them or we'd be back to writing off pickpockets. Forget about taking things out of an apartment. Think more about the stuff you can leave in there: - A multi-person ambush
- The corpse of some templar's fuck-buddy
- Contraband
- Entirely different furniture or art
- Piles and piles of shit
A burglar is the penultimate tool for some VIP to employ as a lackey for harassing people they hate. I would put them as tied with Pickpockets for pure IC harassment power if it weren't for apartment rental being a luxury and clan properties being unrealistically difficult (code-wise) to slip in and out of. PPs primarily edge them out because everyone has inventories.
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