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Post by jcarter on Oct 14, 2013 20:53:07 GMT -5
What exactly are you suggesting? I'm suggesting that you're whiteknighting him for the sake of it. Looking at your other posts it's pretty obvious you empathize with him and you're carrying over your previous issues to Armageddon and players opinions of some of its staff members. How is it easier? There's no barrier for complaint entry here. He's a "bit" stingier so more players actively dislike him, file complaints, and vocally complain about him? I don't know what this means. People who don't like Nyr are unrealistic with their expectations of the game and carry over their grudge to other mediums? There's these common themes with your defenses of Nyr, where everyone who dislikes Nyr is doing it because they got told no by him or didn't get what they want. Even though we've had two staff members state that yeah he's a dick, knows he's a dick, and doesn't care you still project that it's all the player's issue. It's entirely possible to discuss things on the internet without using strawmen. Maybe if you go back and look at my quote in the context of things you'll see I think it's silly that players get tracked down, have their karma stripped, and are threatened with being banned for the capital offense of posting ldescs of well-known animals on this forum. People don't like Nyr based off personal interaction with him. On the first page of this thread, 5 separate people complained about him: Delerak, jjhardy, brah, Hardboiled, and armqwertytwo of all people who usually is the counterpoint to most criticisms. Anaiah had this to say about the number of complaints filed in the MUD: But again, according to you, these are just all apparently disgruntled players who are upset because Nyr told them 'no' when they requested something or he was a 'bit' stingy. I'm really not sure what you're looking for here beyond a fight because your mind is made up and nothing's going to change it. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Oct 14, 2013 20:57:49 GMT -5
The problem is if Nyr is handling all of these requests how the fuck does that work? Isn't that kind of like why we have checks and balances in our government? So that one guy can't pull a Hitler and just control everything and fuck over an entire country?
What is more disturbing to me is if Nyr isn't handling the requests who is and why do they not see a problem here?
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Oct 14, 2013 21:50:15 GMT -5
Alright Jcarter, you've got me on more than a few points... Many of them staring me right in the face. (I'm really not a good forum warrior) I guess years of staffing personally, have left me with a tendency to hop on the staff's side. Mostly because most dealings with disgruntled banned players went like this (even from grown-ass men, mind you): Me: Problem? Them: Yes. Fuck you. You're all corrupt, unban me now. Me: You broke da rules. Them: No I didn't shitstain! Me: *screenshots of all offenses* Me: Yeah. stfu. Ban stays.... And your mom's ugly. Them: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE Me: *le ban* But, then again, I guess comparing the playerbases of Gmod, Minecraft, and various RP Muds that never got off the ground is hardly apples to apples when compared to a twenty year old beast like Armageddon. :/ However, there is a point I'll still defend. ...it's silly that players get tracked down, have their karma stripped, and are threatened with being banned for the capital offense of posting ldescs of well-known animals on this forum. Real talk? Yeah. It's silly. There is no disputing that, but I'm pretty sure everyone posting in these forums is well aware of the risk. It's pretty much been a long-established rule that you're not supposed to discuss Armageddon stuff and just leave it all in-game. I'm well aware of it. If I get tracked down and banned, well... They caught me? I'd have no right to complain. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Oct 14, 2013 22:00:23 GMT -5
I totally get what you're coming from with your example. In most games this is true. In Arms case not as much. Arm has a storied history of dirty laundry and terribly corrupt staff. Complaints falling on deaf ears is the biggest complaint you see. If staff are playing avatar A and they kill player B because of knowledge garnered while on their staff account. Well isn't that something?
Please somebody explain to me how you can separate staff account from avatar account. If they learn IC knowledge on their staff account does this not inherently, almost SUBCONSCIOUSLY force them to play different on their avatar? I think it does.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Oct 14, 2013 22:04:45 GMT -5
Ohhh an argument. YAY. Nope you do this thing called mediation. People in the real world talk to one another when there is a problem. The only comparison I can think of for Arm is a service to customers. Arm is a service to the players. Some don't see it this way and fine, the mud wouldn't exist without players to PLAY the game which to me is a service. When a customer in the real world calls a company/service and complains they have a way of dealing with it, they don't just hang up on the customer or ban them from the service. Even if that service is free they say, "Well I'm sorry that happened to you so let us try and resolve it." This is the attitude to have in my opinion but this is not the attitude you see. Eh.... That's cool and all, but the reality is that it's more like going to someone's house than a service. The staff aren't, and really, shouldn't be obligated to talk you through stuff, especially if you start bending the code to your advantage. Like that "kank in Labyrinth" thing. You couldn't ride it in there, so that should've tipped you off right there. Should've been a big red flag that said, "Yo, can't have critters roaming around here!" But you found a way around it and was promptly dealt with. Oh really? In my experience people that get banned are more likely to do whatever the fuck they want because they don't care. I used to not give any fucks and I was banned multiple times for it. The banning did NOT help me, in fact I would say it hurt me because it made me that much more angrier at those involved. If the staff had just taken more time with me and been more patient I probably wouldn't have been so pissed off and kept making new accounts and raising hell wherever I could. I'd say you were a bit more persistant than most.... I mean, people still talk about some of the stuff you've pulled off. Much of it was pretty amusing and clever, but... You know how it goes. Most folks would give up after getting banned and losing their karma, maxxed character, ect., etc. Especially if they try to sneak their way back in and cause more trouble and lose even -more- time to the game. Also, I'm pretty sure Warrior Poet is playing again. Could've sworn I saw him on a clan board a month or two ago. |
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Oct 14, 2013 22:14:16 GMT -5
I totally get what you're coming from with your example. In most games this is true. In Arms case not as much. Arm has a storied history of dirty laundry and terribly corrupt staff. Complaints falling on deaf ears is the biggest complaint you see. If staff are playing avatar A and they kill player B because of knowledge garnered while on their staff account. Well isn't that something? Please somebody explain to me how you can separate staff account from avatar account. If they learn IC knowledge on their staff account does this not inherently, almost SUBCONSCIOUSLY force them to play different on their avatar? I think it does. Maybe I'm a "glass half full" kinda guy and can keep up blind optimism that the staff can manage OOC/IC separation at least half as well as I can (srsly, I've had more than a few characters walk unprepared into straight up deathtraps-- with people piping up in AIM saying, "Shit! No! They're gonna kill you!" ... with varying results). But, there again, I don't think I've ever had an instance where I was PK'd by a staff member, or had my death orchistrated by a staff member in any way. Maybe I'm one of the lucky, blissfully ignorant ones. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Oct 14, 2013 23:17:21 GMT -5
Oh please. You're here just like the rest of us. Guilty by fucking association. You know certain rooms are not climb check are you going to take a swan dive off them with your 30 day maxxed assassin? A seriously fucking doubt it dude. Seriously you my friend are so full of shit.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Oct 14, 2013 23:22:09 GMT -5
I'd imagine there's a difference between remembering something I got roflstomped by on a previous character by actually playing the game, and ignoring OOC warnings of people trying to kill me coming in over AIM.
At least in principal.
If not, then I guess you're right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2013 0:23:32 GMT -5
I actually like that type of faith in staff. It is necessary for them to do their job and in many instances, the staff do deserve some faith.
Nyr's an exception that proves the rule. If you and him will disagree on the number of angles a triangle has, and you will actually continue pressing the issue. The odds are high, you're going to find your karma zeroed, at the very least. That simple, over matters that small and unrelated to anything.
You know how some policemen truly believe that they are issuing fines to maintain order and safety on the road. While others issue tickets, just to rack up their numbers? Sometimes clearly bending rules of common sense on the chance that the person will 'not' challenge the ticket, or if he does, nobody is going to waste time defending it? Yeah ... Nyr's the latter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2013 0:55:27 GMT -5
"Heavy weighs the head that wears the crown."
It's unfortunate but understandable that when staff sometimes feel threatened they react by striking down whomever is challenging them, if not just for the sake of making an example of them. While it may not be the most effective, it's certainly the most efficient and least time consuming. If I was on staff I know I wouldn't want to spend my time being a policeman.
I also think that comparing the game to a service that they provide is a poor one. I think it'd be more apt to say it's more like a kid's train set. They've got the tracks and the trains, etc. We get invited to come over to their basement and play. And of course we bring the train set alive, bringing it to it's full potential, and the train set exists for this purpose, yet it is their train set and they are the ones that maintain (and pay for) it.
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Post by topkekm8s on Oct 15, 2013 9:52:34 GMT -5
Thats stupid. Its not their train set at all. When you are D&Ding does the game belong to the DM? Fuck no. It belongs to everyone. Its a collaborative effort. If I go to my buddies basement to D&D (which is basically what arm is, a glorified, modified, dark sun rip off) is he just letting me and others play HIS campaign that he OWNS? No. All imms are just facilitators. They get to have fun in their own way, but the notion that they OWN THE GAME AND WE ARE JUST LUCKY ENOUGH TO LET US PLAY IT is completely retarded.
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Post by nyrsucks on Oct 15, 2013 14:03:15 GMT -5
If the staff was equally dickish to all it would at least be fair. They claim karma is about trust but it is really just a measure of how much they like you.
I know someone who played a long lived character well in a pretty high profile role. They got in a disagreement with staff and never got 1 karma. Quite a while later, they started under a new account and immediately started getting karma. Same player with the only difference being one account never dared question the almighty staff.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Oct 15, 2013 16:21:08 GMT -5
Thats stupid. Its not their train set at all. When you are D&Ding does the game belong to the DM? Fuck no. It belongs to everyone. Its a collaborative effort. If I go to my buddies basement to D&D (which is basically what arm is, a glorified, modified, dark sun rip off) is he just letting me and others play HIS campaign that he OWNS? No. All imms are just facilitators. They get to have fun in their own way, but the notion that they OWN THE GAME AND WE ARE JUST LUCKY ENOUGH TO LET US PLAY IT is completely retarded. "my friends do it this way therefor anyone that does otherwise is retarded" k No matter how you look at it though, the DM will always have the final say on what goes down if the dice aren't talking. I dunno about you, but I certainly wouldn't invite a group over again if they had to stop and "collaborate" so they can tell the me where they think the campaign needs to every time something doesn't go their way. If you don't like my campaign, don't come play. It's simple. I know someone who played a long lived character well in a pretty high profile role. They got in a disagreement with staff and never got 1 karma. Quite a while later, they started under a new account and immediately started getting karma. Same player with the only difference being one account never dared question the almighty staff. And I can only guess your friend never requested account notes or carried on with other high-profile roles or anything like that? Or did he just restart with a new account because couldn't go on with life without karma? 'Cause I've done some stupid stuff before IG, and I've got some bad account notes, and I've even gotten into some pretty heated disagreements with staff, but.... Here I am sitting on seven karma? Strange... |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Oct 15, 2013 17:20:48 GMT -5
Thats stupid. Its not their train set at all. When you are D&Ding does the game belong to the DM? Fuck no. It belongs to everyone. Its a collaborative effort. If I go to my buddies basement to D&D (which is basically what arm is, a glorified, modified, dark sun rip off) is he just letting me and others play HIS campaign that he OWNS? No. All imms are just facilitators. They get to have fun in their own way, but the notion that they OWN THE GAME AND WE ARE JUST LUCKY ENOUGH TO LET US PLAY IT is completely retarded. Thank you I was going to post something in response to this train set nonsense but this pretty much sums up everything I feel about it. |
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Post by jcarter on Oct 15, 2013 17:32:10 GMT -5
welp pack it up boys ministersinister has 7 karma and adminned muds so he knows his stuff. all of those player complaints and separate incidents are just you being thin skinned babbies. how could we ever think that someone running a niche, obsolete computer game that they spend 40 hours a week heavyhandedly policing could possibly come across as rude or ever possibly be wrong. don't you know mud admins are known for being some of the fairest people in the land and absolutely never hold grudges nor play favoritism with people that they meet up and hang out irl with.
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