delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Aug 25, 2013 20:18:04 GMT -5
For the sake of starting some serious discussion here.. I'm a bit drunk and decided to post this. I really ask myself deep down why I am disgruntled and jaded about armageddon. The websters definition of disgruntled is. -- Angry or Dissatisfied. I certainly am angry at past staff and past things that have happened but am I dissatisfied with Arm right now? Not at all. The game is still good. I think the main problem for me anyway is this: I know too much. I been there and done that. I been burned. I been imm-slayed more times than I can count. I've tried to come back but it's been met with nothing but scorn and my reputation is so far beyond reparations why even try? It's a vicious cycle, and in the end I think it comes down to who is more mature. I could come clean right now and post my current account and everything and get it reported and all that.. but what does it really accomplish? Will it change anything, I highly doubt it. I think everyone comes to a point where they just don't care anymore. Once you reach that point you're no longer a 'reasonable' person. You're unreasonable, and I reached that point a long time ago. I am unreasonable. I fully understand and accept that fact when it comes to Arm I am unreasonable. I refuse to reason with the current staff because I have no reason to believe that anything has changed. Especially hearing all the stories coming from these new forums. I ask then what is the solution? There probably isn't one. There will constantly be a struggle between jaded players and the corrupt staff. Yes I say corrupt staff because I feel that the staff inherently are corrupt. They are privy to every secret the mud has to offer, they are also given the most powerful and influential roles in the game. This is the worst blight upon Arm; the fact that almost every high ranking character in the game can be attributed to either staff or players that were being brought onto staff? I append the question mark because I truly don't know. I know that thru the channels of gossip that Arm has more trash and dirt than most muds that are transparent. The problem is the RPI aspect. The stringent IC/OOC rules and the inability for the staff to monitor private communications between players which obviously takes place on a daily. I guess what I am trying to say is I really deep down want to return to the mud legit but how can one return to something that you feel almost a hatred for.. at least for the staff in general. If I reminisce about the old days I have a lot of regrets but there were a lot of good times as well. I think that a lot of the troubles and problems I caused ICly could have been easily fixed if the staff tried to reach me instead of just banning me over and over again. The ban-hammer does not work. In my experience you cannot teach people with negative reinforcement, you really need to reach them at the core in order to get anywhere. TL;DR (too long-didn't read): I drank too much and I wanted to vent some of my thoughts on Arm that I am currently having. Also I want this board to succeed so I am starting more discussion!  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2013 20:44:34 GMT -5
Well. It's not like attempts are not made.
Staff is not allowed to have sponsored leadership roles. No nobles and sergeants for them. I do not think they are even allowed to be Agents, unless they started off common and worked their way up. Before this was not so. Before, every other templar who was successful was often an Imm.
Now, it's more common for ex-imms to be in leadership roles, but that's life. They know a lot of tricks and learned on mistakes of others from bird's view, so they are doing stuff that other players dont know about and not doing stuff that other players do not know not to do. Either way, they're no longer imms and therefore are not privy on things going on right "that" moment.
So they 'are' trying to reign in staffside. They 'are' trying to be more even handed. There are a few problems. First and foremost, most if not all Imms these days used to be players. And you would probably know best, Delerak, that we've got a fuckload of assholes amongst playerbase. You and I both are assholes as well. Give us some Imm powers, give us time for those powers to corrupt us, and we'll be even greater fucktards then Nyr.
Finally, this stuff is all volunteer. Therefore really "talented" staff members are fucking 'rare'. Sometimes you get even handed, neutral ones like Morgenes. Who for the most part keeps out of dealing with playerbase entirely and just does the code. Fact is, Morgenes if he truly wanted, could make it mandatory for all Fmes to mudsex his character in the most lewdest way possible on the 1st of every month, and other staffers would not stop him. Because if Morgenes says, "fuck it, I quit Armageddon." Armageddon ... is ... over.
That's why, in my opinion, a lot of staffers tolerate Nyr's idiocy. Nyr besides being a dickwad, is extremely prolific. Just check out the stats of resolved requests. Nyr is no coder, so he's not as important as Morgenes. But Nyr basically lives in Armageddon. He is always in top 10 of the most prolific request resolvers, usually in top 3. Month after month, after month. Year after year, after year. He does the scripts, he does the writing, he does the moderating, he does a fuckload of stuff for the game. Nyr would've been an incredibly good staffer if he had a person who would listen to Nyr's thoughts and then translate them into a non-asshole language while that other person is dealing with a playerbase.
It's scarier for some other staffers who are not this prolific and who are not that vocally asshole. At least when Nyr thinks shit about you, he's going to tell you how he feels, what he thinks you are, and then when you call him an idiot, he'll do something silly unjustifiable and at least you know where you stand, when you're banned.
There are some staffers who got these grudges, anything they hear about certain players (you, the prime example Delerak), they immediately see in bad light. Bias, profiling, all that fun stuff. It's a fact of life. And you cannot detect it, because nobody tells you. It's just whatever it is you're trying to do, they're not gonna back, or actively sabotage you as much as they are able to do it without breaking rules of non interference. There is no way to cure this, except to feel out which of the Imms have such attitudes towards you and simply 'not' playing in the part of the game where they're imming currently. This information is a bit outdated by the way. I've stopped playing roles that in any way involved Imms a long time ago.
Then there are other Imms and players who are absolutely wonderful and make the game worth playing.
There is no absolutely right coarse of action. There is no absolutely wrong one. My personal opinion, that the Imms at least 'try' to make the best of what they're capable of. And truthfully ... they are capable of much less then what the original staff were capable of, despite being more corrupt and less accountable.
In the end, Armageddon is being played by and staffed by people. And people in general are assholes. Sometimes it's extremely frustrating, sometimes it's very wonderful.
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Post by topkekm8s on Aug 25, 2013 20:50:59 GMT -5
I'm not really disgruntled at all. I love the game. I'm here for the secrets. I'm here for the knowledge I'd have to spend years getting via trial and error. Or that knowledge I'd simply miss or not know about. I'm here for the open secrets. I'm here for the stories. I dont think I've broken any rules by being here as far as the mud goes, the only information I've shared are the shitty maps I've made (I'm a bad bad man).
I'm betting all those guests we have are people like me. We aren't malicious players, we just want to shed some light on the shadows the game spins. We want to know how to play the game better. Is that such a crime? I dont see how it'd be such a huge deal to have a "Spoilers" board on the gdb. But apparently it would be. And its like players learned the things THAT ARE ON THIS BOARD from other players and relationships, either using OOC, AIM, whatever. At least in some form. Even the best ones. Show me a great player who wasn't mentored at all and I'll show you a liar.
Anyway. There ARE admin-player butt-buddy circles. This is disturbing.
Sometimes I get the feeling that Arm is all some huge voyeuristic playground for people to watch mudsex and plots. Like players are there only to entertain the imms. I get this vibe alot. You would think the Imms would be more appreciative of their players, those who breathe life into the game. Without players, and good players, the world loses its vibrancy and that game you initially loved and got you involved starts to fade. Seems strange the imms are often sullen, cryptic, elitist, and unapproachable. I can see why the game was hacked by those Israelis.
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Post by blooper on Aug 25, 2013 20:53:43 GMT -5
Good post armq.
Thank-you.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Aug 25, 2013 21:05:45 GMT -5
Thanks for this. Quoted for truth. I've always been one to agree that the PLAYERS run the fucking game not the imms. Without the players the game is nothing, the staff constantly try to remind the playerbase that they are 'volunteers' and that it is so stressful and hard to do their job. Give me a fucking break. I had my own mud for a while, it was a blast. Eventually I gave it up not because of the stress but because of real life concerns. I had a lot going on and decided to scrap my own project. The staff need to be far more respectful and thankful for the players they have. It's as if you play Arm you're required to thank them on the daily for such a great job that they do. FUCK NO. You do a shitty job and I am not afraid to tell you that.
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Post by ultraviolins on Aug 26, 2013 10:43:19 GMT -5
Thanks for this. Quoted for truth. I've always been one to agree that the PLAYERS run the fucking game not the imms. Without the players the game is nothing, the staff constantly try to remind the playerbase that they are 'volunteers' and that it is so stressful and hard to do their job. Give me a fucking break. I had my own mud for a while, it was a blast. I've worked on staff at 3 different muds, and I can't agree with you more. A game without a playerbase is a sad, empty sandbox world. On top of that, when you volunteer to be staff, you're volunteering, choosing, asking, maybe even, dare I say, requesting this set of responsibilities. To act like shouldering the responsibilities you requested is too much work and expect people to be bowled over by your merely existing is shit. |
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Aug 26, 2013 16:35:50 GMT -5
I agree with the majority of this post, I am not really that big of an asshole as I am often painted to be, I am simply upset because I don't fit into the mold of what the staff, with the exception of a few people and a bit of other players, consider to be a good role player. I have seen what is considered, at least in my mind, to be some of the absolute shittiest acting ever known to man coming from high Karma players, and when I make a tiny issue, I get railroaded and 'admonished', it turns the experience sour really quickly.
Just to give some background, i have been playing since the early 90's, I think around 1992 or so when it took 5 minutes (Not literally) to travel from the Gaj to the gate because the game was so dam slow. I remember times when you rested in the gaj you'd get ganked, jacked, mugged by templars who shook you down for the hell of it, pissed on etc.... These were days when you could play what you wanted, I played three sorcerers back then before they split into the paths of magick. I have seen scrabs and tarantulas outside the gates at almost all times, beetles chasing people from storm all the way back to nak, people walking around with tons of sid etc, the good old days. When I tried to play again, the good times were still rolling in 2001 except that I was denied my old characters, even though I had the account forever and helped discover a shit-ton of bugs and mud in the codes.
Take that kind of player who now is told that he can't play worth a dam and railroaded and having shit follow him around to the point where I would play for an additional decade, lasting MUCH longer than tons of people with high karma in sponsored roles, denied leadership positions, but still persist until I couldn't take it anymore and said something to the effect I was quitting, and NYR bans me for saying that staff needs to listen to the players. This is the crap that annoys me.
There, I vented.
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Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
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Post by Hardboiled on Aug 26, 2013 17:44:59 GMT -5
The opposite of love is not hate, its indifference. Hate is just love that been frustrated. For those who are wondering, racism is actually just ignorance and fear.
But i digress...
We all love the game. Some of our most vivid and wonderful experiences come from playing this mud. The problem has always been the OOC community, both players and staff. If you want to enjoy the game, just play the game, don't participate in the forums, don't interact with staff more then you need to, and even make friends with the people on the forum. The moment OOC begins to seep into the game, it really ruins it. The game is much better when you play ignorant of what is happening OOCly. If you begin dabbing in the OOC expect to become frustrated.
The staff actually have slowly figured it out, that why they are so distant and that is a good thing. We can all agree that some rampant abuses have decrease, but the fact someone was able to post what would happen in the HRPT means the staff can't even trust each other eyt. I agree with some points being made, some of the staff thinks themselves gods among men for being on the staff. This game was built by so many people players and staff alike for so many years, some contributed more then other but every involved has contributed. No one forces anyone to be staff, this means that they do it because they think its fun so there is no reason to look down on the players as if they are owed something. As for Nyr, this guy clearly does more harm then good sometimes with his forum trolling. Once Nyr leaves, things will probably take longer to get done but i feel the mud will be a better place for it.
My advice to anyone wanting to enjoy the game is to avoid the GDB. You want answers, secrets or what not, ask here. Other then that just play the game as anonymously as possible.
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Aug 26, 2013 19:32:33 GMT -5
Bravo!!!
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drunkendwarf
Displaced Tuluki
SUCK IT, NYR AND ADHIRA
Posts: 211 
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Post by drunkendwarf on Sept 5, 2013 14:10:39 GMT -5
The GDB is the biggest fucking waste of time ever. 100% agree - avoid the GDB at all costs (except perhaps the staff announcements) if you want any enjoyment out of that game. Otherwise the fucktards will flock to you, screaming ridiculous bullshit at you for every single sentence you say that may be even remotely critical of the staff or the game, however constructive you're attempting to be.
The GDB is the "cool kid crew" - you can see it on any of the posts. If you're not a witty, smart jackass they bash on you or ignore.
I learned long ago to stay the fuck away from the GDB.
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Post by nessalin on Sept 5, 2013 23:07:51 GMT -5
I was at first hesitant to post here because I didn't want in any way to be associated with cheating, but the truth is that I have very mixed memories about my time on Armageddon.
It's surprising to me that the Armageddon staff don't seem to understand how important it is to avoid the appearance of favoritism. This reputation will absolutely kill morale inside of the MUD. Another thing, is that there really isn't a good way around fielding complaints from players. A lot of times they seem to punt, and it's pretty easy for players to tell when they're doing this. Speaking from experience, you have to spend about thirty percent of your staff energy fielding complaints and dealing with problem players, when the game is going well. When it's not going well, you can easily loose half of your time to this. Any game where staff members don't expect this to be the norm will invariably create a bad impression with the people that play. I think that the concerns of a lot of players could be mollified if they simply pretended to give a damn, and were maybe about 10% nicer to people. No one wants to log into their favorite game after a hard day of waiting tables or sitting through school (or whatever) only to deal with a suspicious, sarcastic staff.
Personally, I try to be as compassionate as possible when dealing with players. A lot of players who gravitate towards violent RPI are young people who are dealing with unfortunate real-life issues. This describes most of the staff of these sorts of games as well - you'd think that they'd have greater empathy. While I know that I ultimately can't make all players happy, it's not that hard to show a little patience and courtesy.
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Post by twowhirans69 on Sept 15, 2013 16:46:56 GMT -5
You ever have a former co-worker complain about their boss who just fired them because he was an asshole, and this guy claims he didn't do anything wrong, but then you ask around and figure out he was missing TPS reports, stealing from the till, or whatever? That describes probably a plurality (maybe even a majority) of you. There's no way Arm would still exist if you were all unjustly banned/bitchslapped by staff, because it would imply that many more good, current players are mistreated. Many of you are just assholes telling one side of the story - the side that benefits you. Most of the threads in this forum are a circle jerk of banned players who did shitty things and blame the soulless ginger for being mean to them. Get over yourselves. Most of the rest of you just want spoilers. Whatever. A very small amount of you, if any of you at all were actually treated unjustly, and if you were, I'm sorry. Take advantage of the ban amnesty thing if you think you have a case and actually want to play. (Or just keep playing and pretend here that you're not - you know who you are.)  |
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Post by jcarter on Sept 15, 2013 17:23:16 GMT -5
You ever have a former co-worker complain about their boss who just fired them because he was an asshole, and this guy claims he didn't do anything wrong, but then you ask around and figure out he was missing TPS reports, stealing from the till, or whatever? That describes probably a plurality (maybe even a majority) of you. There's no way Arm would still exist if you were all unjustly banned/bitchslapped by staff, because it would imply that many more good, current players are mistreated. Many of you are just assholes telling one side of the story - the side that benefits you. There's an awful lot of strawmen in your posts and you distinctly avoid naming names, instead just using the generic "you" as if everyone here is in the same situation. Can you list some specific cases? Because from what I've seen people have been pretty open about what they've done, and I don't think very many (any at all?) are claiming that they were unjustly banned. That's not true at all and a gross exaggeration. Realistically most of the threads on this forum are code discussion, class lists, and skill lists. I'd hardly call this a circlejerk as well. Posters are more than welcome to post dissenting opinions and frequently do disagree with me (armqwerty2 in particular), or call out other players. If you don't believe this, you can go look over in the Log Dump. yeah that's pretty true. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Sept 15, 2013 17:31:14 GMT -5
Haha. Please. THIS many fucking people don't get banned without there being a certain issue with staffers ego. Keep living in your fantasy world.
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brah
staff puppet account
Posts: 9
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Post by brah on Sept 15, 2013 18:32:43 GMT -5
You ever have a former co-worker complain about their boss who just fired them because he was an asshole, and this guy claims he didn't do anything wrong, but then you ask around and figure out he was missing TPS reports, stealing from the till, or whatever? That describes probably a plurality (maybe even a majority) of you. There's no way Arm would still exist if you were all unjustly banned/bitchslapped by staff, because it would imply that many more good, current players are mistreated. Many of you are just assholes telling one side of the story - the side that benefits you. Most of the threads in this forum are a circle jerk of banned players who did shitty things and blame the soulless ginger for being mean to them. Get over yourselves. Most of the rest of you just want spoilers. Whatever. A very small amount of you, if any of you at all were actually treated unjustly, and if you were, I'm sorry. Take advantage of the ban amnesty thing if you think you have a case and actually want to play. (Or just keep playing and pretend here that you're not - you know who you are.) I'm not banned, but I've had a few of run-ins with staff members over the years, some good, some bad. I think the people who are or have been banned are pretty honest about it, and they don't 'blame the soulless ginger' without some reason in their mind. To be blunt, Nyr's the only staff member that I've actually ever filed a complaint about myself, and I've been handled by some pretty rough staff members in 11 years of playing. While you make a good point that people will tend to tell the story that favors them, I have heard this story a lot. Eventually, you either start to say something might be up, and look into it, or conclude (as you have so obviously have done) that everyone with a similar story are 'just assholes'. I'm here because I can talk about whatever I want here. I don't have to worry about the GDB police and making the wrong statement in the wrong thread and getting an account note that is, frankly, stupid. I've only ever seen Jcarter moderate, or threaten to moderate, because someone was being an idiot - not because someone was being critical. The most ironic thing about your statement is that on this board very few people share IC info. Current events aren't talked about - except what's publicly available in the history of the game. 'Code' should never be synonymous with 'spoiler'. |
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