Jeshin
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Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 17:35:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure why staff have to kill during RPTs to make them fun and I'm not sure why that murder has to be a PC. To me and my PC killing off an NPC (that I care about) is just as effective as offing a PC and unless the dying PC player has a love of dying (some do, not kidding or being sarcastic, see RGS posts) than it also provides a better experience for all players who participated.
So the statement that staff can OOCly be like we are 100% going to kill some bitches in this RPT to make it serious and fun for the participants can be accomplished with out the need to arbitrarily kill players as a way to inform other players the gravity of the situation they are in. That isn't to say that RPTs just killing someone because they're stupid or incredibly unlucky isn't okay. I believe that is an aspect, but I also believe that staff should try and minimize that. Why?
Players already kill each other or die to NPCs at a pretty prodigious rate. You could be OOCly knowledgable enough to survive barring bad luck but bad luck happens a lot. Seriously there is a reason that longer lived PCs basically start ICly going, I'm not going to remember this guys name until 3-4 IG months later because odds are he's going to die. People die in ARM a lot. You don't need to artifically boost it when you have vnpc/npc victims that can be given emotional investment and then killed off as needed.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 11:35:35 GMT -5
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 11:13:56 GMT -5
I don't... Kronibas are you suggesting that the staff are metagaming the closure of clans for their own advantage in some way? Like... Okay... Just...
1) I think closure of some of these clans is a shame but it is the staffs right and responsibility to close clans and locations that they believe don't add to the game anymore. While we can have differing opinions on that you cannot argue that it isn't inherently the staffs responsibility to do so.
2) I am unsure how the winding down of clans and locations for the stated goal of player consolidation or just those clans supposedly ICly bringing about their own destruction is metagaming?
3) I do not understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that PCs should have been able to prevent the closure of their clans via IC actions? Example here being the Tan Muark HRPT which everyone in the game knew they were going to be attacked, including the Tan Muark players, and yet they were unable to avert their fate in anyway?
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 11:06:35 GMT -5
Kronibas there is nothing wrong with staff closing a clan and running an RPT to wind that clan down. The specific issue is when staffers target static clans like the byn, merchant houses, or noble houses and kill off those members for OOC considerations. At least to me.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 10:49:08 GMT -5
So question for you Jcarter. Do you believe that the shadowboard has legitimate traffic of 50% or greater what the GDB experiences?
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 10:47:19 GMT -5
Ask RRR, I'm sure he'll vouch for me on this.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 10:46:55 GMT -5
Okay but you need to understand the northern military clans are a great example of large portions of the characters dying because kryl have poison and poison can be OP as shit... or Faithful get a little to carried away with something... Like the Adelade Jihaen dying by going to Luirs and being picked off by a whiran.
So the event of a large number of characters dying isn't actual evidence of an intentional cull. It's only a potential incident. So you can't count all of them in the last five years.
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Jeshin
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Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 10:39:01 GMT -5
But once again we're all being diverted into a specific side discussion! There was a very good post up there about culling RPTs being a byproduct of gameworld design and combat code issues. I even did a How Jeshin would handle combat rpts/encounters post in relation to it. Doesn't that post deserve more of our time than semantics?!
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 10:37:04 GMT -5
Right but I didn't make the poll, someone else did based on my question. Then I catch flak for pointing out that the pole isn't really what I asked, it's close.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 9:38:17 GMT -5
If everyone says no, than good, we can all agree that if that thing ever happened we'd all disapprove. We no longer have to even discuss whether it's wrong and can instead discuss a specific event. You won't even have to bring it up anymore like it was brought up repeatedly in the byn thread until it was every other post!
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Jeshin
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Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 9:37:22 GMT -5
On a more productive note...
Creating a combat RPT or encounter that address the presence of both super ranger/warriors and 5 day played cannon fodder characters. I am assuming that ARM retains similar abilities as base diku does. If any staff former or current can shed some light I can clarify or accept it's not possible.
How Jeshin would run a spider nest RPT 1) Create a store room at vnum 1234 2) Generate 10 spiders in that room 3) Assign keywords primary secondary tertiary support01 support 02 so on so forth 4) Observe the RPT via the leader or primary scout using the snoop command or by following while invis 5) Once players have reached the combat location, I let them engage any NPCs that already exist there. 6) Based on discretion I create a one-way exit from 1234 to my current location 7) I execute a script force alpha.spider s;force alpha.spider kill x - so on and so forth spreading out the damage as I see fit 8) If I require waves, I just pre-type up a generation script that repeats steps 2 and 3
This allows me an easy way to target spiders in the midst of combat beyond 1.spider or 2.spider and also allows me to assign them targets without the combat go having them all attack the 1st person listed in the room.
How Jeshin would run the infamous byn RPT 1) I would create a PC mul mindbender and set their skills to exactly what I wanted them to be. 2) I would create a PC and restring them into a Mek, it should be as easy as setting their type and editing the mdesc/sdesc 3) I would then assign a staffer to play them or just multi-window play them 4) This would give me 100% control over them and remove some of the random splat on wall combat code. 5) Any gith or randoms involved I'd just generate in a manner similar to how I handled the spider RPT
These are a little bit more work but prevent the oops I over estimated the group or oops I spawned 2 waves of enemies but they both ran in at the same time that has happened before. The full party wipe of the Tuluki attack force that got wiped out by kryl or mantis or forest gith (forget the specifics) but the staff undid it because there was a goof on their end.
Also note I would only go through this effort if there was mass combat going on or I wanted the difficulty to be very high and didn't want to risk bad luck wiping out all the newbs and just leaving oldbies to get older. For medium or low difficulty where I'm sure the group can handle it, I'd just spawn in adjacent rooms and let the aggro code run them in as staff do already.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 9:22:34 GMT -5
*sigh*
Okay people when I say the question is just a question. I mean it is just a question. Whether the staff did it or not has nothing to do with the question. The whole point of the question is to separate from specific instances!
You either agree or disagree, there is no wrong answer. It's like saying you support the 2nd amendment or you don't.
You can agree that staff should -not- ever run RPTs to kill characters based on OOC considerations and also believe that they have never done that. Equally you can disagree that staff should -not- ever do it and believe that they haven't ever done it!
EDIT - For example I believe that killing in RPTs for OOC considerations is wrong. I also believe that staff have done it before (whether in the Byn RPT or another RPT at some other time)
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 8:43:04 GMT -5
Counter questions for Jazet
1) If you were going to play a rival to Nadu (or whichever PC is the queen bee) how would you do it? What character concept would you run? What role would you request?
2) Have you thought of creating a guide or tutorial to educate players on any unspoken aspects of your game such as the never before mentioned wish up for something in a shop? (not mentioned on this thread)
3) What is your current peak average in players and what would you do with another 10 players with such a limited staff?
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 8:32:52 GMT -5
I'm not the one getting nitpicky. I'm the guy trying to say the original question I posed was purely a litmus test for someone to say, yes I believe staff can/should create RPTs to kill characters for OOC considerations (such as wanting to disperse a clan). I don't get why that makes me the bad guy? Is it impossible to edit the op or change the tone of the discussion on the first page?
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,481
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 26, 2015 8:22:20 GMT -5
Thus why I stated, the question is meant to be specific. Likely because I am hoping the goalpost will be moved and the OP will adjust the framing of the debate. Since it was my original question that sparked this thread.
EDIT - Basically the whole point of the question isn't to be debated on a case by case basis. It's to determine where a player stands on the issue for the purpose of framing the discussion when responding to them or when reading something they write on the issue or potential cases of the issue.
EDIT - Although to be honest the specific question for the poll Is it appropriate/acceptable for the staff to cull the player base with RPTs? is pretty close. I guess you just need to add the 'with ooc consideration' or 'with ooc intent' in there and it'd be spot on... Also I need coffee if I'm having to do multi-edits on posts.
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