Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516 
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 20, 2019 14:50:31 GMT -5
Don't get emotionally invested in a creative outlet focused on storytelling.
Think about that sentiment for a second... The whole point of storytelling is to evoke emotional investment. The whole point of a creative outlet is to express something. If you're not willing to get emotionally invested in an RP game, you might as well not play it. There's better hunting simulators out there.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 19, 2019 16:41:10 GMT -5
Incompetence greater than cruelty, like the old proverb said.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 19, 2019 15:43:59 GMT -5
1 - No Tolerance by Staff, but I think plenty of players feel fine questioning things in relation to themselves. They just think Jane over there shouldn't open her dirty mouth and complain.
2 - I think plenty of people have left with 'fond farewells' and some 'crackageddon' remarks. Taven left because she recognized she had gaming addiction and she couldn't be a writer if she was always playing Armageddon. I've seen plenty of IRL has come and I leave you now posts get positive feedback back in the day and sure someone says crackageddon you'll be back but the posts are censored or edited or someone told YOU FOOL HOW DARE YOU LEAVE FOR A STEADY GIG.
3 - This is accurate but unhealthy relationships can represent this too.
4 - I would argue this since there are definitely those who are 'good enough' they're in the clique either as staff, former staff, or the chosen players. I would also argue whether karma is really a measure of 'good enough' I don't remember it being that big a deal when I played but then I liked human rangers the OP class.
5 - This is accurate but once again not all instances of this mean cult-like.
6 - I think some of the things like the sexual harassment and harassment of Nergal were not so much justified as they were denied as fabrications or overblown to what really happened. I didn't follow these to much but I can't imagine the game would continue to exist if staff publicly tried to say it was acceptable both instances 100% happened and they did them for this justifiable reason. Stuff like banning players, killing characters, etc etc. Yes that seems to be explained away very easily. I would probably point out a lot of people don't give full accounts with names and details for others to really condemn staff. Notable that one tale about someones wife being threatened by Nyr didn't see much defense did it?
TLDR - for #6 a lack of mainstream reading of actual acts done by staff that are questionable leads to a lack of condemnation. Silence isn't always defense, it's just not their problem to fix for the reader.
7 - Maybe? I don't know I feel like a lot of MUDs when someone stops playing you lose the topic of conversation you used to share and drift apart. I might say it's the people who manage to get away from Armageddon who avoid getting to close to people who are adamant about it.
TLDR - Armageddon is definitely unhealthy for some and unfun for me specifically. I quit long before I got banned and I don't miss it. I've never felt the 'cult-like' vibe that you're discussing and there was even a thread asking why I was banned on the GDB during the whole kerfuffle. They called me a creature of low cunning </3 so I feel like I might be in the demographic to have experienced all these points.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 19, 2019 15:21:34 GMT -5
I'd probably just say that players committed to armageddon might want to re-evaluate whether it's a healthy relationship in terms of time spent to fun received and whether they feel like there is always someone out to get them. If yes is that a cult-like, iunno, is it healthy? Probably not. Something can be bad without being -extremely bad-.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 17, 2019 17:15:18 GMT -5
It's about what I expected. Confused player out of sync with the point the staff is trying to make. Some strong arming, some you're doing it all wrong, confusion, explanation of IC/OOC elements. It's a pretty similiar thing for everyone who gets a hostile animation and feels like the rug has been pulled out from under them and they're like you didn't -say- anything until we hit 11 on the dial and -now- you're saying stuff after you let me run off for ages without a warning.
It makes it hard because in that confused/hostile response state the players always look at least moderately uncooperative like Shakes did but when you contextualize it as someone who is being blindsided you can see it's a lot of accusation flinging met with explanation met with shutdown met with frustration met with ultimatums which result in the player seeking some final explanation only to be met with vaguery and a dump back into the world (or storage).
Same thing happened to me when Nyr kicked me out of the Bards for 1 sentence which they read differently than me and I told him straight up I'd rather be force stored as a member of the circle of bards than be exiled on this nonsense.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 17, 2019 14:58:46 GMT -5
Shakes I want you to consider for a moment the situation that any sympathetic staff are in...
1. Administration has shown they will use pixel trackers.
2. Administration has shown they may be willing to harass people.
3. Administration has shown they are willing to use paper thin links to profile people.
Now with these 2 facts and a maybe in mind what is the risk to a staffer to reach out to a player who has just 'rage-quit' or simply quit? You could announce that you've been contacted. You could say who contacted you. You could be a fake meant to get people to message with identity revealing information. They cannot do anything to change the outcome and contacting you could backfire on them so... I think you get my point, I wouldn't take it personally.
As to the Mors thing and feeling like you did the right thing only to be shafted. I know people who have played with your characters. I even pinged them I'm like hey this player (list of pcs) quit. They're like oh that sucks I've RPed with them and did this scheme on or with them. They had nothing negative to say about you even the ones who may have had reasons to kill you or betray you. TLDR People may have killed you but I do not believe they disliked you oocly or thought you were trash. They were just RPing and appreciated/enjoyed your interactions.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 17, 2019 14:24:52 GMT -5
Why are systemic problems systemic?
Those with power are the lattice from which the problem becomes systemic. You are correct not all staff are bad, if you look back at posts from when I left I actually rated staff like Rathustra and Calavera fairly well (among others). Now some people have problems with them but I felt they made an effort. The issue is that punishment/decisionmaking tier of staff (also the longest tenured) are where you find issues. Because the enforcement/decision/policymakers have undesirable traits it filters down into the lower ranks and discourages anyone stepping out of line because the lack of good it will do.
TLDR - You can almost certainly find a sympathetic staffer. Whether that sympathetic staffer has the authority or position to address your concern to a positive conclusion is unknown. Based on years of evidence the long-tenured senior staff are part of the problem and the ones who already made the decision that caused you to quit.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 17, 2019 12:17:38 GMT -5
This is really just kind of silly lets knock this out. 1. Staff ban Jeshin for supporting hacking. This does not mean Jeshin supported hacking, it means they claimed that was the reason or their belief. 2. When Jeshin offers a reward as proof of point that he did not support hacking you now need to find proof he supported it in a statement he made not say well staff said so... That would be the point he is contending, that the staff and their shills are representing his public stance. 3. armageddonmud.boards.net/board/8/log-dump <--- I see evidence here from logs, request tool copies, etc etc. Looks like more than 2 people posted. 4. In one breath you accuse me of personality attack and how it's impolite in society blah blah blah cannot have a reasonable discussion. In the next you make personality attacks, generalization, and guilt by association arguments. 5. In your own forum response you acknowledge straw manning and moving the goalposts as part of your standard forum response. You post to counter the sincere negative opinion of players of Armageddon current and past. They post in reply to you to call you out on the transparent objective you have. It is a cycle that will continue but wherein you have to counter each complaint legitimate or otherwise (because some people do have dumb complaints on here and I have said so)... They just have to defend their own opinions. In the end anyone reading this goes man Qwerty just does X all the time and the Y complaints seem to come from a diverse crowd of people and exist on multiple platforms! 6. I will give you true props though for an unpaid volunteer, you don't whine publicly as much as previous unpaid volunteers have. EDIT PS - For the record for the umpteenth time... I never read, hosted, encouraged, asked for, or distributed the hacked material. It would seem that all forms of support available to me were not pursued. Perhaps I was not vocal enough in calling to burn the witch and salt the land upon which they tread for you? |
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 17, 2019 0:47:37 GMT -5
   Providing a link to the logs and then asserting something is true does not make it true. You couldn't even provide a single quote you simply provided a link, expected no one to read through the mess, and asserted there you have it the smoking gun. EDIT - PS when you quote a post why do you selectively edit out portions of it? |
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 16, 2019 19:06:36 GMT -5
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 16, 2019 18:44:09 GMT -5
The usual Qwerty style including staff apologizing, moving the goal posts, straw men, and asking for more evidence of other peoples positions.
While everything you said is actually true. And kind of almost exactly what I myself have indicated by stating "Hey. I read all of that and I'll respond in my usual style." Something I'm certain "everyone" who read my previous posts have understood without clarification.
I would caution you from making a post like yours. It's up to you, sure. But in an intelligent, self respecting society what you posted is bad mannered. In my opinion. I mean, before someone even spoke, you've began degrading their points and arguments, by going straight for the personality. You're imposing a message that nothing I will say has merit, no matter what is it I say. And while it's your choice, it kind of shows the futility of having a reasonable discourse with you. Don't you think?
I finally saw this when I cleared old notifications from my profile. Qwerty you are a shill. I offered straight $$$ for you to prove the claims you made against me and you just went back to pedaling the same stuff. In polite society there is no acceptance of misrepresentation, intellectual dishonesty, and overt marketing salesmanship over reasonable discourse. If you say something worth saying, people will recognize it. Until then calling you out on your behaviour and apparent self awareness and lack of change is perfectly acceptable. In no way have I stopped you from posting. In no way have I stopped anyone from deciding to believe you. I have however drawn attention to a repeating pattern of shill/sham/pandering posts you make. Just like one might to any other easily recognized pattern of posting. PS - Please do one of these transparent reversal posts on jcarter when he continues to call you out on your obvious intellectual dishonesty. |
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 16, 2019 18:00:12 GMT -5
I do want to point out 'ragequitting' over denied karma is kind of a poor attack to levy.
Armageddon is a game, not a social contract, nor something you owe anything too.
When someone stops enjoying a game they have the right to leave the game. Even tabletop games with people you meet face to face, you may leave those despite there being a higher expected level of consideration. Armageddon where people die all the time and turnover is high, anyone you owed any resolution too will probably be dead before the end of the year and those that don't... Well a carru/beetle/raider/gith killed you, must be because he vanished. No different than lawl dying to an abnormally strong NPC spawn or PVP.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Aug 4, 2019 14:26:06 GMT -5
I always thought the room size reduction and bank taxes were implemented to curb hardcore play styles. The inclusion of warehouses and a supposed guide to opening your own trading company always appealed to the hardcore group over the casuals. The amount of legwork it takes to earn enough money to justify the bank tax or really require a room size nerf or even achieve influence is that of a hardcore playstyle. Either you or the people you associate with need the hours on game to be available to be a commonly selected option for XYZ whatever you shtick is.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Jul 24, 2019 15:27:28 GMT -5
It's not possible.
The brand is damaged.
Improvements only go so far, the RPI community has more or less collapsed and the MUSH community has absorbed the bulk of those RPers with games like Arx or hybrid games like Haven / Sindome have taken them or they've simply left the hobby.
You have players like me who are no longer welcome there even if I would play to RP with someone I like and not for the staff or their plotlines.
A best case scenario is a reinvigorated playerbase along with an outreach program to bring new players into the hobby through Armageddon by lowering the barriers of entry and the negativity of the staff.
|
|
Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
|
Post by Jeshin on Jul 19, 2019 15:33:06 GMT -5
I tend to agree, but if they reboot what would that look like?
They clarify territory lines, stances on issues, and wipe out or canonize certain staff events in the past.
But to a player if the staff do not fundamentally change how they handle the game, does it really make a big difference? Like the staff had a wiki of stuff that was canon but they never used? Does that Lore even matter, if they reboot with secret Lore like that which no one ever learns or shares does -that- lore matter? You get my point.
TLDR - I support a reboot, fixing lore, documentation, but it needs to come with changes to how staff treat the passage of time and the relevancy of player actions and even their own staff plot actions.
|
|
