punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098 
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Post by punished ppurg on Feb 20, 2019 23:34:23 GMT -5
Qwerty has lowkey been Nessalin this entire time. What up fag
For real though, I don't care if a dude is bleeding into a game. If he's bleeding menstrual gunk like Nyr was, there is a responsibility for pushback. The MUD is not any singular man's personal pet project: it's a damn institution. Apathy is absolution; not to stand is to have made a choice. If there had been 4 level-headed dudes who stood up and went "Fuck this, fuck you, power-tripping sperg" I believe we'd be in a much better place for the game.
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boopsie
staff puppet account
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Post by boopsie on Feb 21, 2019 4:57:03 GMT -5
I personally think that the game is slowly climbing back to a much better space, especially recently with the increase in anims and what-not that I've seen/heard about (Many of which don't seem to have ended in random deaths and shit like they have previously). Though I think it's happening at a slow space. I've no doubt that I'm going to get slapped in the face by someone here for saying this, but reading half these posts, it feels like past problems are being focused on more often then not, when really things are starting to move forward in a better direction then they were previously in.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 5:34:47 GMT -5
Sure. But the thing is that both Nyr and Nergal came from a playerbase. I mean, you're not even playing, Jcarter, so it's true. You're not a part of 'them'. But those people who do play are. Dont like assholes taking leadership positions? Take them yourselves. Staff role calls are happening more often then Templar ones.
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Post by pinkerdlu on Feb 21, 2019 6:48:51 GMT -5
Sure. But the thing is that both Nyr and Noted Liar Nergal came from a playerbase. I mean, you're not even playing, Jcarter, so it's true. You're not a part of 'them'. But those people who do play are. Dont like assholes taking leadership positions? Take them yourselves. Staff role calls are happening more often then Templar ones. Honestly as a member of staff and an unpaid volunteer, I think you should be the change, qwerty. And if you aren't capable of turning the game in a better direction (I mean you obviously have the time, look at how often you post here), I think you should personally lead and establish an outreach program to reform disillusioned shadowboarders and turn them into capable staffers. Be the change that you want to see. |
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Post by jcarter on Feb 21, 2019 8:08:06 GMT -5
I personally think that the game is slowly climbing back to a much better space, especially recently with the increase in anims and what-not that I've seen/heard about (Many of which don't seem to have ended in random deaths and shit like they have previously). Though I think it's happening at a slow space. I've no doubt that I'm going to get slapped in the face by someone here for saying this, but reading half these posts, it feels like past problems are being focused on more often then not, when really things are starting to move forward in a better direction then they were previously in. we're focusing on the past for two reasons: 1) these things never come to light until usually a year+ due to players worried about their accounts or from staff leaks 2) we have seen this same song and dance at least 5 times (azroen, bhag, halaster, nyr, nergal) so there's no reason to suddenly think that after 20+ years things would change. if you've ever known an alcoholic or drug addict, you see the same cycle. gets wasted -> fucks up -> gets caught -> promises they're going to turn a new leaf, they're changed, this time it's a new start -> relapses and goes to the beginning. after your buddy gets his fourth or fifth offense alcohol-fueled offense, you start to realize that this dude is probably never going to change. i don't think denying these things are probably still happening, or will happen again, is useful for anyone. suspicion and skepticism is well deserved, and i think everyone would be better off if they acknowledged it and set their expectations on it rather than pretending their boyfriend that accumulated multiple domestic abuse charges against them is really gonna sober up and turn it around this time. why should anyone believe rules are going to be followed now when they haven't in the past? why should anyone take that there's going to be some sort of accountability, when there wasn't in the past? i'm not trying to rag on you but your post fits right into what i'm talking about. *asshole old staffer a gets kicked off* players: staffer a sucked, he screwed us over, why should we trust you guys? staffer b: we're different, we're moving in a positive direction, we don't do shit like that anymore. <----we are right here*staffer b voluntarily leaves staff after years of player complaints and doing things they said never happened* you get two types of players left over-- the in-denial abused wife: he said he's gonna change, it's different this time (boopsie)and the new girlfriend: things weren't that bad, all his ex's just made it up or were asking for it and if it does happen i deserved it. |
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 21, 2019 9:46:56 GMT -5
The correct staff response should be
A) We have new owners/head staff who will address abuses.
B) Yes those things happened and we acknowledge they happened, but we are now on an up trend and reviewing player complaints closely
C) We cannot do anything about negative opinions based on past mistakes. All we can do is try and prevent that from occuring and create a new normal which new players will use as the basis for their opinions. Players who are lost to us are lost FOREVAH.
D) Possibly like a starbucks gift card you know if someone is loaded on staff, that'd be nice.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 21, 2019 10:15:29 GMT -5
The correct staff response should be A) We have new owners/head staff who will address abuses. B) Yes those things happened and we acknowledge they happened, but we are now on an up trend and reviewing player complaints closely C) We cannot do anything about negative opinions based on past mistakes. All we can do is try and prevent that from occuring and create a new normal which new players will use as the basis for their opinions. Players who are lost to us are lost FOREVAH. D) Possibly like a starbucks gift card you know if someone is loaded on staff, that'd be nice. staff have done that multiple times already (see linked posts from earlier in thread) but issues still keep happening. my argument is why should anyone believe it when this isn't the first, second, or even third time that it's happened. |
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 21, 2019 10:45:12 GMT -5
Nessalin and Adhira left the game?
It's been my impression that staff has never really taken responsibility officially for past issues they just have someone like Qwerty or Nergal admit to something on a 3rd party forum
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Post by shakes on Feb 21, 2019 12:36:08 GMT -5
The issues keep happening because they're endemic to these types of games. I saw them on FK, I saw them on Faerun, and I saw them to a lesser degree on MUME and Arctic.
There is a certain mindset which becomes drunk on the smallest amount of power. And unfortunately they're hard to weed out UNTIL they get power. They're often the hardest-working and most motivated of the staffers in order to obtain that power.
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boopsie
staff puppet account
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Post by boopsie on Feb 22, 2019 7:13:39 GMT -5
The issues keep happening because they're endemic to these types of games. I saw them on FK, I saw them on Faerun, and I saw them to a lesser degree on MUME and Arctic. There is a certain mindset which becomes drunk on the smallest amount of power. And unfortunately they're hard to weed out UNTIL they get power. They're often the hardest-working and most motivated of the staffers in order to obtain that power. I think Shakes sums it up here pretty well. The fact of the matter is, Muds do not have big playerbases, not compared to other games. People know other people. Ultimately, it is a small community, and like any small community, you have tons of great people - Arm does have tons of great people, including people who have been unnecessarily wronged by staff in the past. Unfortunately, the staff that have been complete assholes, controlling, or just generally retarded are endemic to any small community. I mean, lets be honest, they're here, too. They're are at other Muds. You can't avoid it. And as Shakes also states, they're hard to weed out until they have power. Another major issue is that these players hardly make up the WHOLE community. The issue is that the majority of the time they are ridiculously loud in their opinions and won't shut up, which makes it seem like the whole mud is like that. Sadly, it gets even worse when they get to a position of storytelling or admin+. The real question that should be getting asked nowadays is how to lessen this happening. And maybe it slowly is? It's hard to know or even control - and we all know that you can't please everyone. |
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Post by jcarter on Feb 22, 2019 8:46:20 GMT -5
The argument that staff on some other muds are also bad is ridiculous and a distraction. "well, there's other dirtbags out there too" is meaningless.
How do you lessen the issue? By following the rules you set down and police your own. Arm staff is unwilling to do that, hence why the biggest staff dirtbags in the game end up leaving voluntarily.
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ibusoe
Clueless newb
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Post by ibusoe on Mar 3, 2019 13:30:13 GMT -5
The issue is that the majority of the time they are ridiculously loud in their opinions and won't shut up, which makes it seem like the whole mud is like that. Sadly, it gets even worse when they get to a position of storytelling or admin+. The real question that should be getting asked nowadays is how to lessen this happening. Staff positions should be temporary. A quarter (e.g. three months) is a realistic time frame for a senior staff member. You should be brought into the MUD to complete a specific project, and once you've completed that project you should be done for about a year. I've seen real life software projects achieve success using the "Benevolent Dictator for Life" model and perhaps Nessalin is that dictator. Succession should be well planned. Nessalin is not, for example young. In rare cases some players are on disability, etc. and they just need something to do with themselves. I don't see why these people couldn't be long term staff if they're surviving in primarily low-ranking custodial opinions. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2019 15:31:15 GMT -5
Mmm. nah. The occasional staff revolutions between clans sometimes cause significant disturbances. When new staff are not familiar with characters in their clans and so on. The 3 month rotation is not enough for many many things. Definitely not for long term plots like Wars, or most political gambits. I can see a rule of forcing a player to lose staff privileges for 3 months once a year. But in all honesty, I think this would make a lot of staffers simply choose not to come back afterwards. After a few years on staff, being forced to lose your responsibilities is very very liberating.
Overall. Those rules that limit staff tend to be a two edged sword. There was once a time when there were no rules, or they were so malleable, they might as well not existed. Those were the days of Bhag and Halaster and so on. Those were 'fun' and wild days. But they were full of staff abuse. Then gradually, with a lot of Adhira's help, but not just her, the rules and policies began to take hold. It became harder to introduce content without it being double checked by others for quality and balance. It became harder to cheat, or abuse. At the same time, it also made implementations full of errant discussion, time wasting, unnecessary reviews, and somewhat daunting red tape. What is better? What's better is some kind of a balance. Not perfect. But nothing is.
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Post by gloryhound on Jun 10, 2019 21:28:42 GMT -5
Instead of a paralyzing bureaucracy, why not:
1. Pare the staff down to four or five people who are (1) active and (2) can be trusted.
2. Give them free reign.
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Post by anon1937 on Jun 10, 2019 21:36:25 GMT -5
Mixed. Some really awesome interactions, some that were just great fun and flavour, others that were complete BS.
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