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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 1:29:19 GMT -5
so where was the staff accountability during Noted Liar Nergal and nyr's 'happened a lot' PK fuck-ups? in your previous post you said there was rules against animations killing PCs. but it happened from the sounds of it many times just from nyr and Noted Liar Nergal alone. in the other thread you blamed this terrible awful hostile board of people for poisoning new players, then you hop over in here and drop bombs that nyr and Noted Liar Nergal were doing flagrantly disregarding imm rules and jack shit happened to them.
Lol. Dropping bombs. I spoke of Nyr and Nergal and their silliness for the last four years? Infact this very thread, this very topic, those very posts have been done before on these very forums.
If it happened, it happened, and I talk about it. What I do dislike is when people are poisoned about non issues. Things like Shakes thinking a staffer animated a bahamet to track him down and kill him, or complain about some staff pet playing sorcerer SLKs. That's silly and it deserves getting a little poking.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 20, 2019 6:27:19 GMT -5
I can't speak for others but the significance of the nuance between "staff never animate bahamets to kill players" and "staff do animate other NPCs to kill players" is completely lost on me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 8:14:24 GMT -5
I can't speak for others but the significance of the nuance between "staff never animate bahamets to kill players" and "staff do animate other NPCs to kill players" is completely lost on me. Scenario one: You lead an elf crew, that sometimes (often without actually wanting to) ends up killing off guild bosses. To such an wxtent that guild boss lifespans becomes less then a month. Staff action:Animate a guild mul and with some limited interaction basically kill half the elf crew. Scenario two You went afk in grasslands, or foraging whatever. 'Supposed staff action': jump into a creature known to 1hit people and walk it into the room or your pc. Or load a dozen spiders next room. Or some whatever similar silly thing. Do you seriously fail to see the difference? |
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Post by jcarter on Feb 20, 2019 9:22:03 GMT -5
Not really, no. TBH if I have to split hairs I think the first instance is worst because it involves retribution by staff for PKing. But I fail to see any real significance that would say this is ok but this isn't.
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Post by pinkerdlu on Feb 20, 2019 9:43:05 GMT -5
Both scenarios
Staff perceives a "problem". In the first scenario, it's an over abundance of PKing or a power imbalance. In the second scenario, it's a character who is grinding or not engaging in roleplay.
Their solution? Animate something and kill them. Whether it's a poorly played mul or a bahamet, I fail to see the difference.
You're still not very good at this, qwerty.
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Post by shakes on Feb 20, 2019 12:24:05 GMT -5
From other animations, I think the (at least modern) tendency is to animate, try to scare away from the bad behavior, and then move along.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 12:28:50 GMT -5
None of these scenarios are 'good'. The difference is that one scenario actually happened and the other never did.
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Post by shakes on Feb 20, 2019 12:39:33 GMT -5
There's probably plenty of other scenarios where animations have led to deaths, or the death of plots. If a player-staff engagement is to be even remotely realistic, it's GOT to have some teeth. That means, unless you're wanting to only interact with a staff-animated cook in the GMH hall, you have to accept the potential for death. But I would not want to get into a player jury where we decide which animations were acceptable to us and which weren't. That's the kind of thing which would lead to NO animations. My chief complaint about animations is currently that with as many staffers as they have, this world should be hopping, but isn't. Almost all plots, schemes, and quests are player driven, and from my point of view ... they most often are either lame or non-existent ... until I get involved.  I've never seen an animation that I would file a staff complaint over. |
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Post by shakes on Feb 20, 2019 12:48:16 GMT -5
I am a plot machine. Just being draw into my sphere of influence is risky, dangerous, exhilarating, traumatic, and fun as hell.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 20, 2019 16:02:27 GMT -5
None of these scenarios are 'good'. The difference is that one scenario actually happened and the other never did. yeah, that's not what's being questioned. you're over there chortling at the idea that staff would kill a hunter with a bahamet, while talking about how staff killed other PCs like we're supposed to see some meaningful distinction of it. the question is to what reason is there some sort of philosophical difference between 'this hunter is in bahamet turf, i'm going to animate bahamet after him and attack if he doesn't run away' (BAD) versus 'these eastside elves kept taking out guild competition, now i'm going to load up a mul and kill them' (GOOD). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 16:22:37 GMT -5
I'm ... I'm amazed. You actually "quoted" the very post that completely invalidates what you just just wrote. I mean, I would understand if you missed it, while reading forums on a smartphone. I do it all the time. But you actually "quoted" the exact answer of what you just said and posed it as "the question". I mean is it reading comprehension, or arguing for the sake of arguing? Or am I misunderstanding?
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Post by jcarter on Feb 20, 2019 16:50:16 GMT -5
Or am I misunderstanding? you're misunderstanding it seems. i'm not arguing anything with you, i'm trying to figure out the thought process with this, but i think you're getting caught up on the words good. it seems that nyr and nergal's actions were acceptable, unless you're leaving out the part of the story where they were reprimanded and actually saw repercussions from it. judging from how you say there was multiple incidences of it happening, that does not seem to be the case. another plausible explanation would be no one knew this happened. but you, a low-level staffer, know it happened so that also seems unlikely. so we're left with another plausible explanation: that what they actually did was ok by staff standards. i'm trying to figure out if that's the case and why, because i'm having a hard time reconciling that with previous rules and staff postings. of course, there's always the other option. that nyr and nergal did whatever the fuck they wanted, it wasn't ok, but no one on staff was gonna do jack shit about it. i think that's probably the most likely but i'm trying to give the benefit of a doubt and hear you out. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:25:03 GMT -5
of course, there's always the other option. that nyr and Noted Liar Nergal did whatever the fuck they wanted, it wasn't ok, but no one on staff was gonna do jack shit about it. i think that's probably the most likely but i'm trying to give the benefit of a doubt and hear you out.
This is actually closest to true. Especially with Nergal. So the general opinion, "He's an asshole and he does dumb things. But he also spends more time on the game then ... anybody else." was a pretty common one for both Nyr and Nergal. There had to be a certain amount of critical mass accumulated, before significant push backs took place. During Nyr, I was on staff and I myself did not feel I had the right to oppose his actions, because out of things worked on for the game, he trumped me by a factor of 10. It felt like one of those leaders in a clan that log in 2-3 times a month to dictate their view of the clan and trump the younger members who spent 16 hours in the game, living, breathing, bleeding in it. I hate when people do that and I wasnt about to do it myself.
Nergal started out okey. He was a good imm. But significant disillusionment, in part brought upon by hacking and the popularity of it, in part for other reasons have turned him into a belligerent asshole more and more. What he lacked in quality, he made up in quantity though. At some point, his on times were greater then probably all staff put together. That really what did him in the most truly. He got the most amount of authority, because everyone else were barely on. Which gradually degraded his ethics and sense of personal restraint. In the end, merit and the amount of content produced is a significant qualifier of what a staffer is capable of. Both Nyr and Nergal were 'extremely' prolific. If they werent assholes, they would be very awesome for the game. But the usual concept of "Assholes have time to kill on Arm, while normal people actually need to spend some effort to get some free time for it" applies here.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 20, 2019 17:32:40 GMT -5
Qwerty are you implying that Nyr was the young up and comer and you were the oldschool staffer there long before him? That would pretty drastically narrow down who you are.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 20, 2019 19:05:29 GMT -5
of course, there's always the other option. that nyr and Noted Liar Noted Liar Nergal did whatever the fuck they wanted, it wasn't ok, but no one on staff was gonna do jack shit about it. i think that's probably the most likely but i'm trying to give the benefit of a doubt and hear you out. This is actually closest to true. Especially with Noted Liar Nergal. So the general opinion, "He's an asshole and he does dumb things. But he also spends more time on the game then ... anybody else." was a pretty common one for both Nyr and Noted Liar Nergal. There had to be a certain amount of critical mass accumulated, before significant push backs took place. During Nyr, I was on staff and I myself did not feel I had the right to oppose his actions, because out of things worked on for the game, he trumped me by a factor of 10. It felt like one of those leaders in a clan that log in 2-3 times a month to dictate their view of the clan and trump the younger members who spent 16 hours in the game, living, breathing, bleeding in it. I hate when people do that and I wasnt about to do it myself.
Noted Liar Nergal started out okey. He was a good imm. But significant disillusionment, in part brought upon by hacking and the popularity of it, in part for other reasons have turned him into a belligerent asshole more and more. What he lacked in quality, he made up in quantity though. At some point, his on times were greater then probably all staff put together. That really what did him in the most truly. He got the most amount of authority, because everyone else were barely on. Which gradually degraded his ethics and sense of personal restraint. In the end, merit and the amount of content produced is a significant qualifier of what a staffer is capable of. Both Nyr and Noted Liar Nergal were 'extremely' prolific. If they werent assholes, they would be very awesome for the game. But the usual concept of "Assholes have time to kill on Arm, while normal people actually need to spend some effort to get some free time for it" applies here.
lmao. i genuinely don't get how there's supposed to be any trust or credibility when the following cycle has been going on for twenty years: *asshole old staffer a gets kicked off* players: staffer a sucked, he screwed us over, why should we trust you guys? staffer b: we're different, we're moving in a positive direction, we don't do shit like that anymore. *staffer b voluntarily leaves staff after years of player complaints and doing things they said never happened* you get two types of players left over-- the in-denial abused wife: he said he's gonna change, it's different this time and the new girlfriend: things weren't that bad, all his ex's just made it up or were asking for it and if it does happen i deserved it. |
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