malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279 
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Post by malkeninthemiddle on Apr 28, 2015 15:51:44 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the part I'm trying to explain.. First of all, he didn't threaten his wife, he threatened his wife's account. Second, like I said, the reason he actually wrote that email is because he thought that jazet was the cheating (or whatever) account and on that account's IP there's probably a note that says "My wife also plays". So if I was an admin and I thought that I had caught a cheater's account (someone who had broken the rules or whatever, we don't know what's the context of that email) and I saw that there was another account associated with him, of course I would ban that account (and every other account associated with it) because at this point you don't know if it's really his wife playing or not. The guy broke a rule, what makes you think he didn't break another one? But again, he realizes that he's got the wrong account and nothing else happens except for an apology and both parties moving on. Doesnt it seem fundamentally wrong to you to go threatening to involve accounts which are in no way involved? You're missing my point.. If Nyr finds out that an ex staffer has been cheating and he thinks that jazet is that guy, and also finds out that jazet has another account connected to his wife, then at this point there is no trust left between Staff and jazet's account (including his wife and all) because if that account has been found out to break the rules, then how do they know that jazet's wife is actually playing and it's not just jazet using his wife to have two accounts or whatever? BUT AGAIN HE REALIZES THAT IT'S NOT JAZET, so it doesn't matter. Neither Jazet nor his wife are cheaters and they are left alone afterward. |
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Post by sirra on Apr 28, 2015 15:52:47 GMT -5
You've gotta be a stupid cocksucker to pull a guy's wife into anything. If you don't get that, then you're probably a stupid cocksucker too. And if there's one thing I hate it's this. You know this cheapens literally everything that's been said? Edit: Insulting people like that is what I mean. No need to insult people, jeez. Some things deserve to be treated with contempt and derision, lest anyone mistake it for valid civil discourse. |
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jazet
Clueless newb
Posts: 97
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Post by jazet on Apr 28, 2015 15:54:30 GMT -5
Let me be clear, I very much took it as a threat to my wife, her ability to play, her character at the time and her "hobby", she who was innocent of everything except being married to me. She's very guilty of that.
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279
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Post by malkeninthemiddle on Apr 28, 2015 15:55:39 GMT -5
I left my explanation. If it doesn't satisfy any of you then you are more than free to continue to rip Nyr apart (which is a huge part of this forum's purpose), you can call me a cocksucker and ignore what I'm trying to say (which apparently doesn't nearly affect me as much as it affects RGS to be insulted on an internet forum hahah) or you can post it on the GDB and try to gain some context with it or what have you, but again, I have a feeling that the majority will see it as Nyr being apologetic for a mistake and nothing more (my own personal opinion that nobody needs to agree with).
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Post by silentlamb on Apr 28, 2015 15:55:55 GMT -5
And if there's one thing I hate it's this. You know this cheapens literally everything that's been said? Edit: Insulting people like that is what I mean. No need to insult people, jeez. Some things deserve to be treated with contempt and derision, lest anyone mistake it for valid civil discourse. I don't agree with this, but I'm not going to go further off topic with it. @malken, I think it's unacceptable. I think you may be going to a little too much effort with that arguement, it seems to me it was more of a spur of the moment thing. Doesn't make it any less terrible a thing to do though, it's a shit move on so many levels, but whatever. I firmly believe everyone should be allowed have their opinions, and if staff wanna come down on me or anyone else for that, (I'm not claiming they will), they'll just drive people away from their game. |
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Post by jcarter on Apr 28, 2015 15:57:23 GMT -5
Doesnt it seem fundamentally wrong to you to go threatening to involve accounts which are in no way involved? You're missing my point.. If Nyr finds out that an ex staffer has been cheating and he thinks that jazet is that guy, and also finds out that jazet has another account connected to his wife, then at this point there is no trust left between Staff and jazet's account (including his wife and all) because if that account has been found out to break the rules, then how do they know that jazet's wife is actually playing and it's not just jazet using his wife to have two accounts or whatever? BUT AGAIN HE REALIZES THAT IT'S NOT JAZET, so it doesn't matter. Neither Jazet nor his wife are cheaters and they are left alone afterward. No, I get your point. but jazet didn't have another account. his wife had an account. afaik there was no proof that he was using her account or abusing his multiplay privileges; i think we can assume nyr certainly would have said that. he is threatening to ban his wife's account for no actual reason. there's no evidence she posted here, afaik he's not accusing his wife of posting here, she's just apparently guilty and could be banned from armageddon mud because nyr has beef with her husband. i mean to me, i don't think it's ok that staff are taking out the actions of a single player on other people's accounts. even if it was never followed through on, i just think it's pathetic and low to try to bring other unrelated people's accounts in as some sort of leverage. if you think that has anything to do with actually enforcing policy and not some personal issues you're being naive. edit: also why are you saying the word 'cheating'? jazet wasn't accused of cheating. he was accused of posting information that nyr objected to on this internet board and violating some staff contract. does anyone have a copy of the staff contract laying around? does it say they'll ban your spouse's account if you reveal the wrong information? |
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Post by jcarter on Apr 28, 2015 15:58:11 GMT -5
I left my explanation. If it doesn't satisfy any of you then you are more than free to continue to rip Nyr apart (which is a huge part of this forum's purpose), you can call me a cocksucker and ignore what I'm trying to say (which apparently doesn't nearly affect me as much as it affects RGS to be insulted on an internet forum hahah) or you can post it on the GDB and try to gain some context with it or what have you, but again, I have a feeling that the majority will see it as Nyr being apologetic for a mistake and nothing more (my own personal opinion that nobody needs to agree with). you keep saying this, why do you think people aren't getting your point or ignoring you when they disagree with you? |
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Post by silentlamb on Apr 28, 2015 16:00:37 GMT -5
I left my explanation. If it doesn't satisfy any of you then you are more than free to continue to rip Nyr apart (which is a huge part of this forum's purpose), you can call me a cocksucker and ignore what I'm trying to say (which apparently doesn't nearly affect me as much as it affects RGS to be insulted on an internet forum hahah) or you can post it on the GDB and try to gain some context with it or what have you, but again, I have a feeling that the majority will see it as Nyr being apologetic for a mistake and nothing more (my own personal opinion that nobody needs to agree with). you keep saying this, why do you think people aren't getting your point or ignoring you when they disagree with you? I understand your arguement too, I don't want to seem dismissive of it. That's why I said I disagreed with Sirra's comment where he called you a cocksucker, as I said before it cheapens what you have to say :/ |
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jazet
Clueless newb
Posts: 97
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Post by jazet on Apr 28, 2015 16:02:24 GMT -5
You're missing my point.. If Nyr finds out that an ex staffer has been cheating and he thinks that jazet is that guy, and also finds out that jazet has another account connected to his wife, then at this point there is no trust left between Staff and jazet's account (including his wife and all) because if that account has been found out to break the rules, then how do they know that jazet's wife is actually playing and it's not just jazet using his wife to have two accounts or whatever? BUT AGAIN HE REALIZES THAT IT'S NOT JAZET, so it doesn't matter. Neither Jazet nor his wife are cheaters and they are left alone afterward. No, I get your point. but jazet didn't have another account. his wife had an account. afaik there was no proof that he was using her account or abusing his multiplay privileges; i think we can assume nyr certainly would have said that. he is threatening to ban his wife's account for no actual reason. there's no evidence she posted here, afaik he's not accusing his wife of posting here, she's just apparently guilty and could be banned from armageddon mud because nyr has beef with her husband. i mean to me, i don't think it's ok that staff are taking out the actions of a single player on other people's accounts. even if it was never followed through on, i just think it's pathetic and low to try to bring other unrelated people's accounts in as some sort of leverage. if you think that has anything to do with actually enforcing policy and not some personal issues you're being naive. Let me add, this incident very much changed how and how often I played and how and how often my wife was playing. Even though neither of us were guilty of doing anything even remotely involved with this incident, what it did do was make two veteran players who had, at that time been playing 15+ years stop, take pause and go: "Wow, this is fucked up, why are we doing this?" That's just one incident where people who could be involved, adding to the community and to the game are suddenly forced to take a couple steps back because they are just shocked at the approach. Mistake or not, handled or not, it was rude and it was callous. Oh and to add one more thing, nobody ever once emailed her about the threat of being banned, her character wasn't stored, she had no idea any of that even happened, except that I so totally told her what happened. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 16:05:46 GMT -5
Malken, you don't always look pathetic, but you look lovingly so right now.
Slavishly defending something so ridiculous hurts the objectivity you try to project and detracts from some of the more credible arguments you've put forth.
So, keep it up.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 16:06:48 GMT -5
Doesnt it seem fundamentally wrong to you to go threatening to involve accounts which are in no way involved? You're missing my point.. If Nyr finds out that an ex staffer has been cheating and he thinks that jazet is that guy, and also finds out that jazet has another account connected to his wife, then at this point there is no trust left between Staff and jazet's account (including his wife and all) because if that account has been found out to break the rules, then how do they know that jazet's wife is actually playing and it's not just jazet using his wife to have two accounts or whatever? BUT AGAIN HE REALIZES THAT IT'S NOT JAZET, so it doesn't matter. Neither Jazet nor his wife are cheaters and they are left alone afterward. My concern there was no effort made before the mistake was made to discuss the issue but simply a "You're banned, your family is banned, your first grade girlfriend is banned, your mother's best friend is banned"... lol. But I think I make my point clear that there could have been some kind of effort to talk about it before hand. It'd be better if staff (or anyone for that matter) weren't so quick to act, making sure they have all the information and not going into a situation thinking they know everything without at least talking to someone in a civil manner. I mean... what if Nyr had approached him and said... "Hey Mr. Jazet, So sorry to bother you with this but we have reason to believe someone is (doing this thing that's against the rules) and the information gives us reason to believe you're involved. We appreciate your contributions to the games over the years and just wanted to remind you of the staff contract. We don't want to punish you or but we want to make sure the rules are enforced. Can you please help us out with what's going on? If possible any kind of explanation be would helpful. Thanks, -Fictitious Arm Staff Member" What if this happened? |
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Post by silentlamb on Apr 28, 2015 16:08:03 GMT -5
This one, I had dared to apply for a noble. DARED. ************************ Greetings, This letter is to let you know that you have the following note on your account, "No sponsored roles for this account.", as well as let you know that your characters will not be accepted into, or considered for, leadership positions in the game. If they acquire them in-character, in-game reasons will be found to deny your character the role, so please do not seek them out. This is a result of burning bridges with enough staff members over a period of several years that we're not comfortable having you in roles that require staff interaction, whether those are special apps, sponsored roles or in-game leadership positions. Regards, -Nessalin On an entirely different note, what's this to do with? Were you given any prior indication? |
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279
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Post by malkeninthemiddle on Apr 28, 2015 16:09:13 GMT -5
You're missing my point.. If Nyr finds out that an ex staffer has been cheating and he thinks that jazet is that guy, and also finds out that jazet has another account connected to his wife, then at this point there is no trust left between Staff and jazet's account (including his wife and all) because if that account has been found out to break the rules, then how do they know that jazet's wife is actually playing and it's not just jazet using his wife to have two accounts or whatever? BUT AGAIN HE REALIZES THAT IT'S NOT JAZET, so it doesn't matter. Neither Jazet nor his wife are cheaters and they are left alone afterward. No, I get your point. but jazet didn't have another account. his wife had an account. afaik there was no proof that he was using her account or abusing his multiplay privileges; i think we can assume nyr certainly would have said that. he is threatening to ban his wife's account for no actual reason. there's no evidence she posted here, afaik he's not accusing his wife of posting here, she's just apparently guilty and could be banned from armageddon mud because nyr has beef with her husband. i mean to me, i don't think it's ok that staff are taking out the actions of a single player on other people's accounts. even if it was never followed through on, i just think it's pathetic and low to try to bring other unrelated people's accounts in as some sort of leverage. if you think that has anything to do with actually enforcing policy and not some personal issues you're being naive. I assume that jazet lives (lived, still lives - I hope!) with his wife at the time so yes, their accounts would be on the same IP and they probably would have sought permission from Staff to have two accounts sharing the same IP. (Can we at least agree on that part? It's an important part of my argument..) So let's assume that they are sharing two accounts in one household AND Staff, for some reason or another, think that one of these two accounts was found cheating, they decide to ban them both because if you are found to be cheating, how can they trust you that the other account is really your wife playing it? (I don't think I would, but it depends on what you were caught doing, as well). That's why context is important.. Why is it that Nyr felt like whoever's account he was really after deserved to have every accounts related to that household banned instead of just the one? Because he's a prick? Because he thinks the crime is so big that jazet and his wife (or whoever he thought jazet was) are both guilty of something? Again, I think it has nothing to do with jazet and his wife being personally targeted, I think it's whoever he thought jazet was and every accounts related to him. |
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jazet
Clueless newb
Posts: 97
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Post by jazet on Apr 28, 2015 16:09:54 GMT -5
This one, I had dared to apply for a noble. DARED. ************************ Greetings, This letter is to let you know that you have the following note on your account, "No sponsored roles for this account.", as well as let you know that your characters will not be accepted into, or considered for, leadership positions in the game. If they acquire them in-character, in-game reasons will be found to deny your character the role, so please do not seek them out. This is a result of burning bridges with enough staff members over a period of several years that we're not comfortable having you in roles that require staff interaction, whether those are special apps, sponsored roles or in-game leadership positions. Regards, -Nessalin On an entirely different note, what's this to do with? Were you given any prior indication? I had no idea this was coming when it came, no. I had just applied for a leadership role, probably a Jihaen, and this was the reply that came with my rejection. Considering I'd been playing since 1993, yeah, I've had some up and down relationships with staff, and had managed to outlive quite a few storytellers in my clans. Part of my bad reputation with being difficult to manage was pre-request tool. I felt that it was absurd to not get email replies in a timely fashion, meaning, like a week or so for actual questions, when to be honest, volunteers or not, they aren't -that- fucking busy. I know this first hand, they aren't that busy. The workload they are so worried about, they make for themselves. And before the request tool, it was worse. That happened in 2008, anytime after that I sent off a request for anything, I'd get a "Refer to previous emails" in reply and if I had a character who was earning some power, they weren't kidding about finding IC ways to keep me from really utilizing it. I should also point out, after the fact, my wife got that exact same email, word for word, from Nessalin, banning her from all leadership roles as well, despite, as I've said before, her not being a problem player, but ME being the issue. |
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Post by sirra on Apr 28, 2015 16:10:37 GMT -5
you keep saying this, why do you think people aren't getting your point or ignoring you when they disagree with you? I understand your arguement too, I don't want to seem dismissive of it. That's why I said I disagreed with Sirra's comment where he called you a cocksucker, as I said before it cheapens what you have to say :/ What he has to say deserves to be cheapened. If you ever have a wife or SO you might understand one day. Dragging them into anything, or shitting on them, to get back at you, is the lowest, most unprofessional and most dick thing a man (or woman) can do, while still playing the passive-aggressive game. Defending it, and coming up with some tortured, logically bankrupt bullshit to excuse it, is exactly what a stupid cocksucker would do. Nothing Malken said has been remotely convincing. It has all been bullshit. What if Nyr thought jazet was dual-boxing and his wife's account was fake, what about Nyr apologizing for it. It's all bullshit. Everyone knew, and Nyr CLEARLY knew in that email, that the wife's account was that of a separate entity. And he didn't even apologize, beyond asserting it was sent to the wrong email. He felt no qualms at all about the threatened action. Coming up with straw-men and red herrings to deny it, while relying on Orwellian doublespeak to have it make any sense, is a stupid, cocksucking thing to do, and it deserves to not be taken seriously by anyone. |
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