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Post by BitterFlashback on May 13, 2014 9:23:23 GMT -5
If her character is a loyal lirathan, then she has to play however loyal lirathans play. However if she learns that playing this way is creating a lot of grief for the rest of the playerbase, is the #1 cause of death for all mage PCs combined, and is one of the main reasons (other than Nyr) that no one plays in Tuluk, then the player should accept that responsibility and maybe - store. Voluntarily. And send a note to the staff telling them that she won't be responsible for fucking up the game anymore. Her playtimes make it highly unlikely she's the "main reason" for [insert anything] in Tuluk. The staff fucked up the game by putting in a half-baked Zalanthan version of Oceania so I see no reason why Q's player has responsibility for anything to accept. The staff might be responsible for letting her do this and encouraging it. But she is responsible for the implementation. You have this backawards. The staff laid out how Lirathuans are supposed to behave and she followed it. They didnt let her do "it"; she was supposed to do "it". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 9:28:03 GMT -5
If her character is a loyal lirathan, then she has to play however loyal lirathans play. However if she learns that playing this way is creating a lot of grief for the rest of the playerbase, is the #1 cause of death for all mage PCs combined, and is one of the main reasons (other than Nyr) that no one plays in Tuluk, then the player should accept that responsibility and maybe - store. Voluntarily. And send a note to the staff telling them that she won't be responsible for fucking up the game anymore. Her playtimes make it highly unlikely she's the "main reason" for [insert anything] in Tuluk. The staff fucked up the game by putting in a half-baked Zalanthan version of Oceania so I see no reason why Q's player has responsibility for anything to accept. The staff might be responsible for letting her do this and encouraging it. But she is responsible for the implementation. You have this backawards. The staff laid out how Lirathuans are supposed to behave and she followed it. They didnt let her do "it"; she was supposed to do "it". Everything you just said, bitter. It's not the player's fault that in playing the role they were assigned and doing it well, its driven players away. It's the fault of lousy game design, just like the whole 'not leaving the pah' and 'gank everything in the pah' as two main hooks for the slk rp of the recent past is bad for game design. It might be enjoyable for one side of the situation (or it might not), but playing to the docs results in a lot of not having players around, in some cases, where the docs don't take into account the environment that following them will create overall vs the experience of rping them out (which is much more one sided and myopic). Some people seem to have no concept of cause and effect, but badly written roles on poorly designed scenarios acting things out as they're directed within a sliver-thin window to do... seems to result in the same thing whether it's Tuluk or the Pah, if we're being real here. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 10:04:26 GMT -5
So you're saying the staff tells Q's player "do this thing." And the staff knows it's screwing with the game but they instruct her to do it anyway.
Q's player obeys the staff, and "does this thing." And Q notices that she's really good at doing this thing, and as a result, there are problems with everyone else. But the staff tells her, "You're doing great, keep doing it." And she keeps doing it. And there are more and more problems, and plotlines end because she's just so damned good at doing this thing. And more magickers are killed, because she's just so damned good at doing this thing. And she knows it.
But nowhere does she have any responsibility at all to say, "you know what, I'm just so damned good at doing this thing, it's fucking things up for people, and that means it's making it un-fun for those people. And that isn't why I took this role, and maybe the staff is wrong, and maybe I won't be a staff's sheep and continue to "do this thing" that the staff is screwing everyone over with."
Q's player can always step up and say "Hey - no more of this, it's not making things fun for everyone, it's making things UNfun for everyone." Q's player isn't blind, Q's player certainly sees that her efficiency at doing what the staff keeps telling her to do, is making things UNfun for people. Q's player can do something about it - by storing AND expressing to staff exactly WHY she's storing, and offering suggestions on how to make these kinds of roles FUN for everyone, not UNfun for everyone. Q's player has chosen not to do that.
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Post by jcarter on May 13, 2014 10:18:34 GMT -5
which asshole sat there and said you know what will liven up this place that's been owned by a notorious mind-reading near-invincible PKer who has access to everyone's bios for several years? removing taverns, decreasing road sizes, and implementing shadow artistry. players will go apeshit over this!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 12:06:50 GMT -5
So you're saying the staff tells Q's player "do this thing." And the staff knows it's screwing with the game but they instruct her to do it anyway. Q's player obeys the staff, and "does this thing." And Q notices that she's really good at doing this thing, and as a result, there are problems with everyone else. But the staff tells her, "You're doing great, keep doing it." And she keeps doing it. And there are more and more problems, and plotlines end because she's just so damned good at doing this thing. And more magickers are killed, because she's just so damned good at doing this thing. And she knows it. But nowhere does she have any responsibility at all to say, "you know what, I'm just so damned good at doing this thing, it's fucking things up for people, and that means it's making it un-fun for those people. And that isn't why I took this role, and maybe the staff is wrong, and maybe I won't be a staff's sheep and continue to "do this thing" that the staff is screwing everyone over with." To the general statement above: Yes, that's correct. To the part I bolded for emphasis: No, no more than any other player with any other role, and there are a lot of people that grief the shit out of people. I can think of a specific instance: Someone has a rinthi dwarf (assassin I believe) with the focus 'Be liked' or something akin to it, perhaps 'be accepted'? In any case: We spend three weeks without a Kadian. Two weeks for a rolecall. A week to get them in game. Three hours into their play, the dwarf spots them, ghosts after them without ever having met them, and kills them and robs them. Dick move, right? Everyone in the south is screwed for at least two more weeks now, the dwarf is seemingly TOTALLY breaking focus to grief a clearly new pc, and someone's sponsored role gets pked somewhere public in less than three hours after getting in game. Shit like that happens more than you'd think. It's only a handful of about 4-6 players that are behind it, but it happens all the damn time. Is it the dwarf's responsibility not to do that? One could argue it is, if the idea is not to do things that grief others, kill plots, inconvenience players, and fuck the game up. But the dwarf wasn't stored. And neither has Qoriya been. At least she is acting in accord with the documentation for her role. And frankly, the player has 8 karma, up from 5 before they got Qoriya, had it since before I was her clan staff. So she's apparently not doing anything that's disapproved of by admins or above, because she's still got it intact and hasn't been stored. |
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Post by gloryhound on May 13, 2014 12:45:21 GMT -5
I just feel no empathy for Qoriya's player. She'd do the game better by not logging in at all and starting a new character. Instead, she stays on, like a bloated spider in a web, waiting (and continually searching) for victims, for at least eight years RL now (she was around for the Copper War, right?). Face it, her player wouldn't do it if she didn't get off on "retiring" PC after PC after PC with her ridiculously unfair advantages. The only ray of sunshine in all of this is that at least her predations are mostly limited to Tuluk. If it were game-wide, they might as well just close up Armageddon. And now they seem focused on trying to draw/push more players into her web.
I suggest the people who are saying, "she's just following the staff's lead", look up the "Nuremberg Defense" and decide just how applicable it is to her case. It didn't fly during the trials.
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Post by apriestswife on May 13, 2014 13:07:52 GMT -5
I just don't understand where's the thrill in what she's doing. It would be another thing if she was a proper assassin who risks being killed while on task, but how many times do you have to invite someone for a "chat" and then order your bodyguards to kill them before the whole thing gets really old? The conclusion is that she OOCly gets off on griefing, no other explanation.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on May 13, 2014 13:46:33 GMT -5
bitchety bitch bitch bitch.
she's a psionicist Templar who's playing true to her role by mindfucking and killing the shit out of threat pcs for spans of years just as the staff planned.
ur playing a far different game than the rest of us to bitch about someone in an 8 karma psionicist Templar role getting 'ridiculously unfair' advantages. that's the whole fucking point.
this just sounds like a whole bunch of bitching at seeing someone get to play such a powerful role unscathed (which is perfectly realistic) for rl years while doing exactly what the role demands with the advantages she's given for that purpose.
it seems more like u've got a problem with the setup (state-supported psionicists) more than anything, because without that a psionicist like qoriya would have 'risked being killed while on task' far more than she has with state backing.
all ur left with then is some bitching about what players get off on doing (which is just an empty ad hominem that means shit all when the player is playing realistically and within the docs)
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Post by gloryhound on May 13, 2014 13:50:01 GMT -5
No, it's not bitching, it's pointing out a game-wrecking circumstance, wondering however can the staff condone it, and wondering what sort of player would revel in it.
The people who are bitching are the ones on the GDB who fret over how dead Tuluk is. Well, duh.
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Post by yaznokumf on May 13, 2014 13:56:51 GMT -5
What is Qoriya's sdesc, in case I ever run into her?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 13:59:48 GMT -5
I once had a Lirathan (probably Qouria) have my psionicist (who lived far from Tuluk) killed. If not for them acting as the Zalanthan FCC and stopping each potential threat, no matter how small, the world wouldn't be as safe as it is now. If they hadn't acted as soon as they did I may have posed a threat to the Sun King himself, and possibly the world. Now that I've realized this I'm much happier, and everyone is safer.
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Post by jcarter on May 13, 2014 14:02:37 GMT -5
of course it's frustrating to have an invincible person running around that can read everyone's thoughts and histories and kill them without any consequence whatsoever. There's a couple of ways around it: either be cheesy as hell like Nyr's Tuluki psion Rissa and never mention your powers in your bio, think about them, feel about them, or do ANYTHING relatively realistic about it or just not play in Tuluk. Go figure that most people aren't playing in Tuluk anymore.
As far as Qoriya goes, there's a million and one other ways to handle things than PK every single person who has bad thought. Manipulate them, make them work for you to further your agenda or the city state's, brainwash them, etc. PKing every single person on sight is pretty shitty and low and behold fosters a negative environment people don't want to play in anymore. When you're playing a templar, it's the expectation that you do it with a little bit more responsibility and tact than being a mindless PK machine. It's perfectly in character for an Allanaki templar to randomly kill commoner PCs and take their money and shit because they want to. Does that make a templar who just walks into the Gaj and kills commoners whenever they feel like it acceptable? Maybe by the 'rules' but you're being a dick. It's not against the law for me to walk up to you in a restaurant and fart on your food, but does that make me any less of a douche for doing it?
Let's not pussyfoot around this and pretend like people are bumping into a sorcerer out in the wilderness and getting killed out of necessity. Anyone and anybody is getting wiped out if the player can get away with it and justify it under the thinnest of pretenses. That's playing like a dick, and the only option players have is to take proverbial ball and go home. And as the numbers are showing, that's what they're doing. The player of Qoriya is a detriment to the mud and pretty shitty overall.
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Post by nyrsucks on May 13, 2014 14:14:13 GMT -5
My complaint is she refuses to put herself in any kind of harm's way. She'd shun Legion PCs for interaction or guards. Why take a risk when you have 100% loyal NPCs. Nope go hide out with your NPCs and "win" the game.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on May 13, 2014 14:42:45 GMT -5
@ gloryhoundbitching and pointing out a circumstance aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, and unfortunately this seems to be the case here. nice try tho.  even so u don't need to repeat that u were even making a point; the second to last statement in my last post summed that shit up. as well theres no reason to try and surmise how or even why player could enjoy doing some things ig unless ur just trying to make a weak case against playing a role that permits or even relies on those things just because u just don't like the aspect it brings to the game. which brings me back to my original point; ur gripe is against the structure that allows and provides for the role to exist |
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Lizzie
Clueless newb
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Post by Lizzie on May 13, 2014 14:46:26 GMT -5
look up the "Nuremberg Defense" Ladies and gentlemen, this discussion has reached its conclusion. |
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