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Post by snorpborp on May 12, 2014 21:42:51 GMT -5
Anyone read God Emperor of Dune? That's what this game fucking needs. We need to breed a Siona.
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Post by gloryhound on May 12, 2014 22:01:54 GMT -5
Say what you will about whirans, in the time I was on staff, Qoriya pk'd more characters than every magicker in the game put together, for the entire duration of the time I was on staff. So... you might want to rethink that premise. I don't see how anyone on staff could miss how game-breaking that is. I mean, what could they possibly have been thinking when they created that? And the way Sanvean defended it when Taeri's player complained, just ripping posts down off the GDB. Wasn't there any staff discussion about how destructive she was to anything happening in Tuluk? By the way, Mekillot, have any of your characters ever been summoned, then threatened and/or killed?
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Lizzie
Clueless newb
Posts: 199
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Post by Lizzie on May 12, 2014 23:31:57 GMT -5
I only ask because I was under the impression she's been around long enough that she surely would have hit the "you get a promotion! Please store now" point. However, I would argue it is the player's fault that they haven't even tried to bend the rules a bit in order to make things fun for other players. It might be her job to do this, but certainly constantly reading people's minds is tiring and certainly it would be possible to, say, only bother to do it with people who have actually caught her eye. I'm not disagreeing on your observations, frankly I wish they would have reeled it in a bit, but I can't think it's fair to players as a whole, to dislike each other or fault each other for filling a role the pc in question was designed to fulfill. While it's not for the best for the game, it's the same way I would do my best to give benefit of the doubt on magickers players or someone who was a burglar wanting to do stuff that I know sucks for the other player involved, but tryin not to judge over it. It's not fair to anyone to ask them not to play their guild when it's not a game where anyone will be able to learn any skill (sadly). She's been -offered- promotion more than once. It's certainly not fair to ask people not to play their guild, I can't disagree with that either. I will say, however, that I think it is entirely fair to ask players to take actions with the enjoyment of others and the knowledge that the the game is ultimately a group effort in mind. I honestly think the players in the Rinth do this best: There have been many times where I've seen some of them put another character in a position where playerkilling was certain, only to find some other much more interesting reason not to kill them. Hell, just take a look at one of the only logs Arm staff will ever share. I believe its on the GDB. It includes a templar who interrogates a rinth rat, and the rinther is clearly useless. Rather than off the guy, the templar finds a way to make the rinth rat's life more interesting. Stuff like this should be expected of players who are in a unique position like PofQuoriya, not the exception.
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forarm
Clueless newb
Posts: 100
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Post by forarm on May 12, 2014 23:35:12 GMT -5
I'm positive she's not. And, frankly, here's the thing. The problem is not Qoriya's player. The problem is that making mentally omniscient thought police is bad for the game's play in the area. The fault is on the guild's design, not on the player who is playing it and doing so with ruthless effectiveness. Is it bad for the game? Absolutely. Is it the player's fault that the niche for their sponsored role is a detriment? No, that's on the people who designed the guild. I only ask because I was under the impression she's been around long enough that she surely would have hit the "you get a promotion! Please store now" point. However, I would argue it is the player's fault that they haven't even tried to bend the rules a bit in order to make things fun for other players. It might be her job to do this, but certainly constantly reading people's minds is tiring and certainly it would be possible to, say, only bother to do it with people who have actually caught her eye. I have to agree with this, she is has a high level sponsored position after all and instead of making the area more enjoyable she is part of the reason Tuluk is dead. From what I've seen over the years, she mostly hangs out somewhere remote most of the time, just mindbending quietly. Someone here mentioned that Samos could basically also read bios and potentially destroy plots, but no one complains about him or that. I am guessing thats because he as a player contributed more to player enjoyment then he took away. I personally try not to completely blame the player, especially since staff could have stopped them a long time ago just like they did with drunkendwarf's whiran.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 23:52:53 GMT -5
It's certainly not fair to ask people not to play their guild, I can't disagree with that either. I will say, however, that I think it is entirely fair to ask players to take actions with the enjoyment of others and the knowledge that the the game is ultimately a group effort in mind. I honestly think the players in the Rinth do this best: There have been many times where I've seen some of them put another character in a position where playerkilling was certain, only to find some other much more interesting reason not to kill them. Hell, just take a look at one of the only logs Arm staff will ever share. I believe its on the GDB. It includes a templar who interrogates a rinth rat, and the rinther is clearly useless. Rather than off the guy, the templar finds a way to make the rinth rat's life more interesting. Stuff like this should be expected of players who are in a unique position like PofQuoriya, not the exception. I couldn't agree more with the bolded portions, unfortunately, I was never in the position to decide it was time for her to retire. I brought it up to Senga multiple times, and thus came up with the point of making the offer at some point for her to be promoted to High Templar (storage) but she opted out of it. Again, I have to lay this entirely at the foot of the people who decided an army of mindbenders as thought police wouldn't ruin the plots of an area.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 0:00:32 GMT -5
it is the player's fault that they haven't even tried to bend the rules a bit in order to make things fun for other players. It might be her job to do this, but certainly constantly reading people's minds is tiring and certainly it would be possible to, say, only bother to do it with people who have actually caught her eye. I have to agree with this, she is has a high level sponsored position after all and instead of making the area more enjoyable she is part of the reason Tuluk is dead. From what I've seen over the years, she mostly hangs out somewhere remote most of the time, just mindbending quietly. Someone here mentioned that Samos could basically also read bios and potentially destroy plots, but no one complains about him or that. I am guessing thats because he as a player contributed more to player enjoyment then he took away. I personally try not to completely blame the player, especially since staff could have stopped them a long time ago just like they did with drunkendwarf's whiran. [/quote] Agreed, but I'd like to touch on the bolded points, if you would. It is IC, it is purposeful, not the player attempting to twink out, etc, but actually trying to be a good lirathan, that had them doing that. If you got the impression she often hid remote places to do it from afar, you'd be right, as to all of the lirathan npcs as they DID rather, outside a tiny handful, so again, this is her acting in accordance with the role. Finally, a mundane given sorcery, and then psionics, is not the same as a born psionicist that has been trained and weaned onto a neural network vast enough to watch the entire known at once, and physically addictive (as is the case with Lirathans, vs the case with a southern templar who gets granted a little psionics). Again, I really can't lay it at the feet of the player just because it's horrible for the city. Every bit of the reasons WHY it is horrible... is because of them trying to actually do their job. The job simply shouldn't exist, or at the very least, shouldn't extend to prevalent.
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Post by mekillot on May 13, 2014 0:46:27 GMT -5
No Qoriya needs to learn the summon spell. Then she can actually ruin fun. Say what you will about whirans, in the time I was on staff, Qoriya pk'd more characters than every magicker in the game put together, for the entire duration of the time I was on staff. So... you might want to rethink that premise. I didn't post about whirans there. I know Qoriya has killed a ton of PCs, and giving her the summon spell would let her PK even more. So, I don't have anything to rethink. It's a joke. By the way, Mekillot, have any of your characters ever been summoned, then threatened and/or killed? Yep. Twice.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 1:17:03 GMT -5
Qoriya, Qoriya, Qoriya. The Lirathan before had the same identical methods. Serilla? I forgot the name. Also lived forever, also probed bios, also killed plots. Samos did the same thing.
I dont really see how you're expecting Tuluk to work without psionics. They dont have magicks to fall back on. How are they going to maintain the "superpower" status? Some Red Fang/Guild/Mage Gang variant would just annihilate the entire playerbase of the templarate and legions, if it wasnt for Tuluki access to psionics. Coded and virtual.
It's a shitty thing. And the people playing psionic templars should be a little lazier in their actions and dont be super-effective in their jobs and data mining. But you cant really seriously suggest removal of psionics from Tuluk. If that ever happens, they will get such massive, stupidly crazy alternative abilities, you'll 'miss' lirathans.
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Post by lulz on May 13, 2014 1:33:51 GMT -5
I'd be fine if Tuluk became ultra averse to magick/psionics, to the point of templars being granted the ability suppress their minds psionically. This in turn would promote the use of message carriers, something an old templar of mine utilized every now and then.
In addition, if we want to go truly cray-cray, just give Tuluki templars the ability to learn Nilazi spells to help them better combat more traditional forms of magick. While the use of magick itself would and should be reviled, the Tuluki templarate could play upon the occult to keep themselves distanced from evil magicky vermin. Anytime a templar is seen "casting", it should be stressed that they are calling upon arcane arts belonging to long-forgotten lore.
Everything mentioned above sounds cool as fuck to me and would be based off of Nilaz. Why? Because Nilaz is fucking kickass, that's why. Plus Tuluk has always struck me as a place steeped in the occult.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on May 13, 2014 1:50:38 GMT -5
There's a lot of options... Obviously the best way for Tuluk to combat magic and move away from ninja mindbenders is technology. Tuluk occupies a lust location. They have clearly focused on culture, art, and history as their cornerstones. Give them flashpowder bombs (disrupt casting) Poisonous fungus spores (causes wild thoughts or inverse think/speak) Give them a mine within Tuluki walls and have the metal have an anti-magick quality to it.
PS - Dujat shells and Duskhorn scales supposedly have anti-magick properties.
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Post by BitterFlashback on May 13, 2014 6:49:36 GMT -5
However, I would argue it is the player's fault that they haven't even tried to bend the rules a bit in order to make things fun for other players. It might be her job to do this, but certainly constantly reading people's minds is tiring and certainly it would be possible to, say, only bother to do it with people who have actually caught her eye. I'm going to have to disagree with encouraging metagaming. If her character is a loyal Lirathuan she has to play it that way. none of the stuff she's done is out of sorts for how the staff decided Lirathuans would work. i can still remember when they started the Tuluk remodeling and were discussing giving it an Orwellian feel. Disappearing thought criminals on the spot was literally the shit they were afer. The staff created this ridiculous situation. And it's on them, to fix it. if everyone in a particular staff-invented role waters down what they are doing it conceals the problem created by that role. That said, i can also say from experience the main problem with plots in Tuluk (Nyr notwithstanding) is the bureaucracy delay from dealing with the staff. Every fucking thing has to be approved in keeping with Tuluk's social structure. if you're unaffiliated you actually have to track down some noble and deal with Nyr through their staffer through them. And that's if you can get them to go along with it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 7:43:14 GMT -5
If her character is a loyal lirathan, then she has to play however loyal lirathans play. However if she learns that playing this way is creating a lot of grief for the rest of the playerbase, is the #1 cause of death for all mage PCs combined, and is one of the main reasons (other than Nyr) that no one plays in Tuluk, then the player should accept that responsibility and maybe - store. Voluntarily. And send a note to the staff telling them that she won't be responsible for fucking up the game anymore.
The staff might be responsible for letting her do this and encouraging it. But she is responsible for the implementation.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on May 13, 2014 8:34:08 GMT -5
Personally, if the staff wanted an Orwellian feel to Tuluk then there are two ways to do this.
1 - No Militia 2 - Actual motherfucking mindbending
You want Orwellian? Then you need people to feel compelled to do the states dirty work. You want neighbor snitching on neighbor. You want people scheming and plotting to be the psuedo militia by always leading the Faithful to 'undesirable' elements. You want the faithful to incite lynch mob mentality. You want them to literally 'correct' peoples emotions and thoughts en masse.
You want to know what's scarier than being disappeared? Being mob lynched but no one, no one, even the people who participated in it can talk about it publically. They have to be good little citizens and say 'Yeah I haven't seen Amos.' while trying to be as convincing as possible, even when talking to someone else who was there for the lynching.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 9:02:02 GMT -5
qoriya should store for the good of the game - disagree, personally, I think she should just lose any psi powers that were lirathan based and keep only her innate ones, and yes, she should definitely store, but not because anything is getting ruined. largely because 3/4 sponsored roles in tuluk have been around for multiple rl years and have very stagnant, rut-filled interaction with each other, and most of whom have already achieved all the things they can expect to achieve, so letting in new blood for half the northern sponsored roles would, I think, breathe life into politics, and thus plots, there. Actually, 4/5 pcs in sponsored roles, even, if the tenneshis are still around and it's still Raleris Winrothol, and the fat tenneshi chosen and his wife and qoriya, with an outlier that might be shorter lived, sometimes as a templar, sometimes as a noble. change it up.
@ghaati - she runs her lirathan like most of the npc lirathans are ran, though I animated one once to mindblast someone in Luir's for attacking a soldier and then running off. that was interesting.
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Post by lulz on May 13, 2014 9:04:55 GMT -5
I could get behind that.
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