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Post by gloryhound on May 8, 2014 12:23:24 GMT -5
Warriors will rarely see a defense skill up, because they have parry and use weapons from day 0. So if a warrior wielding two scimitars takes a hit and some damage, he has far less of a chance at improving his defense than if a ranger wielding two scimitars? I don't think that's really how it works. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2014 13:08:05 GMT -5
What the dude is saying is that at some point it is hard for a warrior to take a hit and some damage due to high def, high parry, and high shield use. While a Ranger's parry is of lower cap, shield use is definitely lower, so they tend to get hit more often.
It is true. At some point if a warrior is trying sparring with a weapon, he can potentially parry 100% of all swings at him if his opponent is weaker. That's when you get a warrior sparring unarmed against an opponent who's using weapons. Because unarmed = no parrying.
If a warrior "does" get hit though and incurs damage, he learns.
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Post by mekillot on May 8, 2014 14:56:23 GMT -5
No, I'm saying getting hit while you have a weapon and the parry skill you won't raise your defense ever, fighting armed.
This is just like getting hit while you have a shield. You won't raise your parry skill ever.
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MartenBroadcloak
Displaced Tuluki
It's not a shit post if you spell check (tm)
Posts: 370
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Post by MartenBroadcloak on May 8, 2014 15:50:17 GMT -5
Ohhhhhh, because it's trying to raise -parry- and not -defense- because you have the skill! I get it.
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Post by mekillot on May 8, 2014 17:42:41 GMT -5
Ohhhhhh, because it's trying to raise -parry- and not -defense- because you have the skill! I get it. Yeah. The skills have a sort of priority. Shield-use is on top. Parry is under it. Defense is last. The game gives the failure to whatever has highest priority. You only get one failure for being hit. A warrior with a shield and weapon being hit will get the failure on shield-use. Parry will not raise. Defense will not raise. A warrior with a weapon being hit will get the failure on parry. Defense will not raise. A warrior without a weapon or shield being hit will get the failure on Defense. A ranger with a shield and weapon being hit will get the failure on shield-use. Defense will not raise. A ranger with a weapon being hit will get the failure on DEFENSE. They don't have a parry skill to raise. A ranger without a shield or weapon being hit will get the failure on Defense. I'd like to note that it isn't only rangers, but every non-warrior. It's just that rangers tend to do as much combat as warriors. Assassins are similar, but they branch parry before rangers do. Thus their defense is lower. This is the cause for some strange phenomena in the game. Like rangers being fantastic, if they do a lot of combat, at boxing/bar brawling. Despite never fighting unarmed. Rangers have a far higher chance to dodge some mob scripts, because they do a defense check to avoid it. Such as the flying gold-bristled kryl shooting out stingers or w/e it is that hits the whole room. In fact, for the above script, I've only ever seen an assassin and a ranger dodge it. Unless they were good twinks. |
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Post by mekillot on May 8, 2014 18:08:18 GMT -5
That's one of the biggest warrior protips, and it took me a long time to piece the reasons why together.
Go box as a warrior.
Oldschool players used to box to help the use of wrist-razors.
It isn't quite so powerful, offensively, now.
Here's another code secret.
Sparring weapons (anything with the training weapon flag on it) have a hard cap to weapon skill raises. I think the cap is 20 or 25.
I've had a character get a JM weapon skill in 2 days played.
I've also had another character who sat in the Byn from day 0 hour 3. He died at 28+ days played.
All his weapon skills were apprentice.
He had master dual-wield/two-handed. Dual-wield was maybe capped.
His dual-wield was so much higher, that his off-hand was far more effective.
Against one character he only could hit her with his off-hand.
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Post by lyse on May 8, 2014 18:52:34 GMT -5
That's one of the biggest warrior protips, and it took me a long time to piece the reasons why together. Go box as a warrior. Oldschool players used to box to help the use of wrist-razors. It isn't quite so powerful, offensively, now. Here's another code secret. Sparring weapons (anything with the training weapon flag on it) have a hard cap to weapon skill raises. I think the cap is 20 or 25. I've had a character get a JM weapon skill in 2 days played. I've also had another character who sat in the Byn from day 0 hour 3. He died at 28+ days played. All his weapon skills were apprentice. He had master dual-wield/two-handed. Dual-wield was maybe capped. His dual-wield was so much higher, that his off-hand was far more effective. Against one character he only could hit her with his off-hand. This sounds super accurate. |
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Post by tektolnes on May 8, 2014 22:08:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I have serious doubts about what you're saying Mekillot. I feel pretty certain that I've had a warrior raise a weapon skill to advanced in a sparring clan (without seeing enough "real" fighting to do so). I know people within the last year or so who've branched 2nd tier weapon skills while in sparring clans also.
And quite frankly, if you're in a sparring clan, you're basically learning ONLY from sparring, since your "real" fights will go either 1 of two ways:
1) 5 PCs go out riding and all attack a beasty. Even the < 1 day played PC never misses a shot because 5 vs 1.
2) It's some kind of mini-RPT where the creatures spawned are strong enough to dodge. You could learn here.. but you get like 3 of these a year AT BEST.
I'm not saying I know you're wrong, because all I can do is present circumstantial info... but I don't think you're right.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on May 8, 2014 22:40:45 GMT -5
the one thing i'll also raise doubt to is the sparring weapon cap to weapon skill raises. have been seen the same happen as tek's situation w/ sparring weapons.
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Post by lyse on May 8, 2014 23:28:06 GMT -5
I feel like Mek is right. I tried to spar up some combat skills and got nowhere past apprentice with them, but others jumped up quickly. Not sure whats going on with the inconsistency, but's gotta be something else going on making both things happen.
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MartenBroadcloak
Displaced Tuluki
It's not a shit post if you spell check (tm)
Posts: 370
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Post by MartenBroadcloak on May 9, 2014 0:35:07 GMT -5
Parry raises pretty fast by my understanding for that reason. So long as your holding a sharpened spoon and get hit by something, instead of using your prison shank to parry their longsword, that's a fail.
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Post by lulz on May 9, 2014 2:40:54 GMT -5
There's a reason they put the hammer down on people training barehanded against weak animals. It fucking works.
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Post by mekillot on May 9, 2014 3:24:15 GMT -5
I feel like Mek is right. I tried to spar up some combat skills and got nowhere past apprentice with them, but others jumped up quickly. Not sure whats going on with the inconsistency, but's gotta be something else going on making both things happen. Is the inconsistency not luck? Or am I misunderstanding how the weapon skillups work. I thought that basically a die was rolled each time you failed to hit with your weapon. And if that die roll was a success on your first fail for the timer, you would gain 1/100th of a skill up or some such nonsense. I always figured the succ/fail for that chance to skillup was extremely stacked on the fail side. So the people who advance beyond apprentice are either extremely lucky or long lived. No? Not quite. Chance for skill ups go down as skills increase. Weaponskills just raise by a tenth of a percent or something like that. And at higher levels it's hard to miss anything at all. And at higher levels you need more failures to ensure that skill up. |
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Post by lyse on May 9, 2014 6:57:26 GMT -5
I feel like Mek is right. I tried to spar up some combat skills and got nowhere past apprentice with them, but others jumped up quickly. Not sure whats going on with the inconsistency, but's gotta be something else going on making both things happen. Is the inconsistency not luck? Or am I misunderstanding how the weapon skillups work. I thought that basically a die was rolled each time you failed to hit with your weapon. And if that die roll was a success on your first fail for the timer, you would gain 1/100th of a skill up or some such nonsense. I always figured the succ/fail for that chance to skillup was extremely stacked on the fail side. So the people who advance beyond apprentice are either extremely lucky or long lived. No? That's the theory on how it works on here, but I've seen that it doesn't always work that way for whatever reason. So for example, my character is a journeyman at piercing, I decided to skill up bludgeoning just for the lulz of being able to knock someone out with a crazy club of doom. After a week and a half of sparring with training clubs I'm still sitting at apprentice. Maybe my guild and starting location factored in there for piercing to go up faster than that, but it's something else going on preventing me from getting to journeyman with just sparring weapons. Not really a twink or a codey person, I'd rather be RPing something and eventually got bored with trying. Maybe I didn't do it long enough, but it definitely started to appear pointless to continue sparring with it though. |
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Post by someguy on May 9, 2014 8:46:24 GMT -5
Not to come off as trollish... But the best way to skill weapons, offense and defense up is this...
Log in with your combat oriented PC and play like you're going to get the mantis head that day. Go out. Hunt / Fight things that you -might- not live through. Get reeled. Get the shit beat out of you. Get dodges when you swing.
It's why spiders, while suicide, are great for boosting skills. It's why rantarri in the tablelands are great at boosting your defense (or if you really want a challenge, a pack of mantis near their clutch or a notch below that are packs of kiyet). It's why gith in the Red Desert are great at boosting all the above. Kryl don't count because they have intangible scripts that can kill you anyway.
Doing that will generally boost your combat skills more than sitting around and waiting for someone to train with. Granted the above is far more dangerous. But then again... It's armageddon. Your PC's life and L337 skills are all fleeting. This game ends in death or storage. Nothing more.
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