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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 13, 2014 1:39:27 GMT -5
I should head into this by saying a couple vague things about myself. I'm an old player who left at the height of the heavy-handed immterference and came back after being told it was gone. It returned while I was playing and I quit again. I have never been banned. I have been privy to information about things going on behind-the-scenes on my first go-round. this came from sources with no reason to lie to me. Also, it's late. I may be a little scatterbrained.
Armageddon is a game that sells itself on the lie that you matter. You don't. Everything that major happens was preplanned before the playerbase even had a chance to participate. In the past, the staff was full of wannabe writers who felt their job was to wow the playerbase with earth-shattering awe that was infinitely beyond their characters. The more "important" the RPT, the more people who'd be killed at random, directly or as a consequence of a setup. So you knew it was big.
Since I got back it seems Nyr is taking up the slack for all the wannabe writers who used to be around. Every RPT/HRPT involving Tuluk vs. Allanak that I've seen I guessed the winner in advance with a friend of mine. We had a 100% success rate. The staff (mostly Nyr) had an obvious direction they wanted the overall story to go and it just discouraged me from risking my characters getting killed to add "impact" to these premeditated railroad plots. That's the opposite of the intended purpose of an RPT.
Now where is this rant going? The staff has a curious hatred of PC leaders. They put you in a position where the power to do anything comes through them, which kills your productivity. Even if you get a responsive ST you can be hamstrung by an unresponsive/hostile higher-up. The imms seem to have an intense hatred of PC leaders driving the story, even at a low level, because it upsets their long-term award-winning storyline epic writing genuine desire to promote player activity.
Nobles used to be completely worthless roles. Now they seem to be a punishment. I think they should offer the roles more honestly. "Would you like to get money for free and make up useless busywork for players? You would?! Well please indicate if you'd prefer unfiltered mudsex (Allanak) or mudsex lite (Tuluk) and we'll get your ass in a barstool so you can start RPing plots that will never matter or change anything."
The staff environment was something akin to an anarchistic unchaperoned teenager social structure. Perhaps that changed, but I am just going to assume it hasn't because I have no faith in them. The way it used to be "structured" was certain people were "responsible" for certain things, but realistically everyone overlapped each other, formed cliques, and had pissing matches on the IDB. In spite of the corruption, imms were forbidden to play templars. You can thank Bhag for that. He used to play Ishahn while logged in to his imm account. It got to the point where it couldn't be ignored. I am aware of one instance where he answered a wish by contacting the player and responding IC to the messages.
Nyr is nothing new. He's just the current-era Naephet. He does stupid large scale bullshit in the hopes people will a) care or b) to drive players where he thinks they belong. I'm baffled by the people complimenting him on how he handled the Shadow Artist thread. He decided what would happen and pretending it was up for debate. He half-responded to people and ignored others. It changed nothing. He's implementing the same thing he was already going to with slight modifications based on people who mostly agreed with him. The fact Tuluki activity bottomed out with people retiring over it was underplayed.
The idea that he has mild autism (Asperger's was reclassified) is absurd. I have met a number of people like him. He's not autistic; people like that don't shit on everyone on purpose. He acts with purpose. What is it? He is someone with shit self-esteem who has convinced himself to feel better about himself by looking down on other people more. His route is convincing himself smarter than everyone else. The problem with this is any time he meets someone who may be smarter than him it deals a crippling blow to his illusion of worth, so he has to make it so he sees them as dumber than him, usually by "proving" they are wrong.
This is decidedly unhealthy. It's also a trap. What happens is now he can't accept being wrong, because his sad narcissism is I'm Right + All Dissenters Are Wrong = I'm The Smartest = I'll Stop Hating Myself For Now. Not being able to accept genuine criticism/correction is detrimental to self-improvement. You save time by honestly evaluating negativity. You correct yourself and become better faster. He can't do that. He even has to force himself to continue acting in error and extending his worthlessness to prolong his denial.
Watch how he argues if you haven't already. He misses points on purpose. He ignores other points. He edits documents then demands proof that no longer exists. He once challenged the very true point that the staff sandbag people's plans that are reported by pointing to the lack of reports by the people complaining. How they would prove they were invisibly sandbagged even if they had reports was a topic he blissfully avoided while flopping his dick around. I recognized some of the players as being from back in the day I used to play. the imms would explicitly ban you from any plans you reported they disliked. They disliked most plans to kill important PCs regardless of realism.
Now I am rambling a bit. I'll just leave off here. oldtwink covered a LOT i agree with sao no point rehashing.
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Post by themountaingoat on Feb 13, 2014 12:37:39 GMT -5
Sad little king of a sad little hill?
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 13, 2014 15:44:21 GMT -5
I'm sure he thinks he's king. He acts that way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 15:43:59 GMT -5
TBH, I can give the single reason in a nutshell why Tuluk is not 'active' ever. Nyr is the Admin. He has been since 2011 when Senga quit, despite the part where they are supposed to have staff rotations. BitterFlashback I have to agree with the stuff about Nyr, though to be frank, I think the rest was likely before my time and right around the time I was a newbie (aka had no idea of any of the dynamics, and had no dealings with any staff really). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 16:29:09 GMT -5
I thought Nyr was running over south until two, close to three years ago. Tuluk was subpar "waaaay" before that.
One of the reasons why Rissa did not delve into Southern aspects as much as she wanted to, was because Nyr was imming over south.
The original version of the Shadow Artists were set on them being unable to refuse a contract. Now they can do it. I think it is a fundamental change that occurred due to a massive outcry of the playerbase. An outcry that happened "because" Nyr brought the concept under discussion. Saying that the whole discussion was an illusion and resulted in nothing, is simply ... not true.
Nyr is narcissistic and does tend to argue points for the sake of argument, that is true. He also tends to overreact to people who dare argue with him and deal serious damage to them and their accounts. I'm pretty sure he is also aware of how he is and is trying to somehow control it. Not that it excuses anything, I avoid him like a plague. But at least he is better then those Imms who think a player is shit and never let them know they think so, only shittalking backstage.
Personally, after Nyr took over north. Things began to change. Did they improve Tuluk considerably? I'm not so sure. Are there attempts to improve it? Very much so. Nyr might be an unpredictable, unreasonable ass, but he is prolific. Some of those changes can really only show up when players create the characters and develop them to take use of those changes. So far, it's going slowly. Fate of any perma death mud.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 14, 2014 16:58:23 GMT -5
I still think shadow artist is one of the silliest ideas that have come around. At any given time, there's going to be maybe what, 3-5 players max who will be fulfilling that role? It's going to be pretty easy to figure out who the 'shadow artists' are that are running around and given the limited player size it's not going to be hard to figure out who is hiring the 'shadow artists'. According to the rules listed, no contract can be refused by the templarate...so why wouldn't I just constantly hire someone to kill every single person that looks at me cross-eyed if I'm Joe Merchant and this is a completely anonymous system? All I would lose is money if it doesn't happen, but considering how easy it is to generate vast amounts for some people I don't see this as an issue. When those 3-5 players get sick of constantly pkilling or screw up and get killed themselves because they're pretty much obligated to by the system there's no consequence for the person doing the hiring. When there's no shadow artists around, are templars just going to say ok and take the money anyway? Are they going to come up with some dumb reason of 'well all our people are busy from now until the undetermined future' until some newb comes along and registers?
It's just so completely absurd and half-baked, I don't get why they just don't have another Guild-style clan up there that's player directed. If the Guild wants to take the contract they can. If they want to blab about it to drum up more business or help with shake-down intimidation, they can do that or they can keep it secret. Players can also track down the Guild and try to flip them against whoever hired them (I've had that done before me on a massive hit). Is there anyone out there who thinks this is a good system that will actually add to the game and improve it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 17:28:36 GMT -5
There are three main reasons why Tuluk sucks and almost always falls flat:
1) It's too softcore. Really, as much as people like to claim that the harshness is just subtle or whatever the fuck it is they use to defend it these days, the northlands are just too easy and soft. The wilderness is a joke, you can hunt on foot and there's unlimited amounts of animals within walking distance in all three directions, and in the grasslands you literally regenerate faster than you do in shaded/indoors rooms. Everything is cheaper, more accessible, easier to get, the culture is less brutal, everything about it is just too easy compared to the rest of the game and its setting.
2) Censorship does not lend itself well to roleplaying. One of the main aspects of Tuluki culture is that you don't talk about anything sensitive, don't do anything fantastical, can't be overtly corrupt, and can't allow scandals. This is fucking horrible for a game that people have to play and find day-to-day entertainment in. An RPI survives on everyday events and they just aren't there in Tuluk. The city discourages all the things that improve commonplace surface roleplay and encourages things that don't really work out in reality, like sanctioned assassinations which practically never happen and so have no influence on the actual roleplaying milieu.
3) The society is so woefully watered-down. It largely lacks the tangibility of social boundaries that Allanak has. It doesn't really have a proper slums area that creates distinguishable slummers, the nobility is supposed to mingle more or less freely with commoners, people can easily approach and work for the Chosen without having to join their associated clans and devote their lives to servitude, the races are if not actually equal then at least a lot more free to be themselves... there's no real element of social tension in any of it. In Allanak you have the gemmed, the 'rinthers, the brutality of the templarate, the nobility on its pedestal, the very distinct history of racial friction. Even if some of those things aren't always represented so concurrently due to the fluctuating nature of PCs and clan populations, they're things that lend substance and nuance to the characters and how people roleplay.
Tuluk has such a weak, flat culture and a society that just feels... modern and uninspiring. It has always made the place such a bland, featureless and ultimately inactive place to roleplay. It very feels like a knock-off of Armageddon made by someone whose main goal was to figure out how to make the game's setting more pleasant and peaceful. They could have done things to compensate for the less gritty nature of the place, but they simply haven't.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 17:49:29 GMT -5
Jaxa Pah Kanosh family was supposed to be these assassins extraordinaire. Respecting Blades that were used during high scale assassinations, etc. By design, JP was supposed to welcome the challenge of an assassination first, be wary of political/diplomatical/economical backlash second. Did this happen? Noooooope. I was watching Tasok at one time who tried to hire Jaxa Pah to assassinate a gypsy. The price given for the kill was so ridiculous, Tasok was going like "So you're asking three times as much as I am worth myself?". The reason? Because Jaxa Pah had a working relationship with gypsies and trading twinked up gear for flash powder and shit. While Tasok could not really offer Jaxa Pah anything that they didnt already have. In other words, "pure assassination" simply did not happen.
Now we have Shadow Artists. Who "can" refuse contracts by the way, albeit not easily. But anyway, now we have an 'option' of playing a role in Tuluk that 'allows' for some brutality. Allows people to do shit that dont involve mudsex, shittalking in tavern alcoves, and quiet useless sneckering in the bardic circle hash meetings. And yet it's still a silly idea?
Like, Tuluk sucks. A great majority of people agree with this, myself included. Nyr sucks dick, oh yeah. Some people know this more then others. But at least there is an 'attempt' to fix the matter. At least give it a chance to do it. Otherwise we get one guy saying, "Tuluk sucks, because it's too soft, too censored, and too watered down" (All true), and the idea to improve it is silly, because it's ... abusable? Geez, at least give it a try, before plunging it down to shit. Otherwise it sounds like this, "Staff made it, therefore it's shit."
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Feb 14, 2014 18:07:21 GMT -5
Oldtwink is a very wise man.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Feb 14, 2014 18:08:43 GMT -5
Why? I don't give a shit. I don't play anymore and I'm sure plenty of others here don't. I loved what Arm was at one point but it's a shell of its former self. Staff blew it. I'd be surprised if the mud stays open much longer to be honest.
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Lizzie
Clueless newb
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Post by Lizzie on Feb 14, 2014 20:59:44 GMT -5
I still think shadow artist is one of the silliest ideas that have come around. At any given time, there's going to be maybe what, 3-5 players max who will be fulfilling that role? It's going to be pretty easy to figure out who the 'shadow artists' are that are running around and given the limited player size it's not going to be hard to figure out who is hiring the 'shadow artists'. According to the rules listed, no contract can be refused by the templarate...so why wouldn't I just constantly hire someone to kill every single person that looks at me cross-eyed if I'm Joe Merchant and this is a completely anonymous system? All I would lose is money if it doesn't happen, but considering how easy it is to generate vast amounts for some people I don't see this as an issue. When those 3-5 players get sick of constantly pkilling or screw up and get killed themselves because they're pretty much obligated to by the system there's no consequence for the person doing the hiring. When there's no shadow artists around, are templars just going to say ok and take the money anyway? Are they going to come up with some dumb reason of 'well all our people are busy from now until the undetermined future' until some newb comes along and registers? It's just so completely absurd and half-baked, I don't get why they just don't have another Guild-style clan up there that's player directed. If the Guild wants to take the contract they can. If they want to blab about it to drum up more business or help with shake-down intimidation, they can do that or they can keep it secret. Players can also track down the Guild and try to flip them against whoever hired them (I've had that done before me on a massive hit). Is there anyone out there who thinks this is a good system that will actually add to the game and improve it? This sounds an awful lot like an argument someone one the GDB might have made, if the system were presented as a player-suggestion instead of implemented by staff. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 21:30:39 GMT -5
The shadow artist stuff is the wrong thing to focus on. There's nothing overly wrong with it in itself, but if anyone thought that updating the rules of assassinations and hired thieves (pretty sure the latter literally never happens) would somehow provide the missing piece in the puzzle that is Tuluk, they were so hilariously wrong that it beggars belief. The problem isn't that someone took the time to touch up the shadow artist docs or redesigned the templarate, it's that they did nothing else. These are not the things that were wrong with Tuluk, these are not the things that affect everyday roleplay, these are things that almost never matter to anybody because the act of hiring an assassin, let alone them actually carrying out the task, is so uncommon and so secretive that the rest of the playerbase isn't really in a position to give a shit. If it had been part of a grand overhaul of the whole Tuluki culture, it would have been fine. For Nyr to have seemingly thought that it was all he had to do, is simply a farce.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 14, 2014 21:56:01 GMT -5
The original version of the Shadow Artists were set on them being unable to refuse a contract. Now they can do it. I think it is a fundamental change that occurred due to a massive outcry of the playerbase. An outcry that happened "because" Nyr brought the concept under discussion. Saying that the whole discussion was an illusion and resulted in nothing, is simply ... not true. The whole discussion resulted in nothing. It is entirely... true. What you've left out is what happened after Nyr's initial shitting on dissenters and before he allowed refusals. A large chunk of the active shady people retire. Some stored. I recall one or two left the game entirely. IIRC it was just under 10 PCs. Tuluk's activity level imploded. Since nobody was willing to try his idiotic system even to keep characters they'd invested time in, he's dialed it back slightly. the discussion did jack shit. It's still true the third time I said it. I have no doubt he still thinks his original system was brilliant. He probably believes everyone who quit was a baby for not trying it or some equally insulting dismissal. Another thing that hasn't changed is the system is still idiotic. I don't know anyone who still plays in Tuluk. So I don't know if anyone excluding imm-avatars is actually participating in his silly bullshit. Is anyone aware of what's going on in the dullest place in the Known World these days? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 22:23:30 GMT -5
I thought Nyr was running over south until two, close to three years ago. Tuluk was subpar "waaaay" before that. One of the reasons why Rissa did not delve into Southern aspects as much as she wanted to, was because Nyr was imming over south. The original version of the Shadow Artists were set on them being unable to refuse a contract. Now they can do it. I think it is a fundamental change that occurred due to a massive outcry of the playerbase. An outcry that happened "because" Nyr brought the concept under discussion. Saying that the whole discussion was an illusion and resulted in nothing, is simply ... not true. Nyr is narcissistic and does tend to argue points for the sake of argument, that is true. He also tends to overreact to people who dare argue with him and deal serious damage to them and their accounts. I'm pretty sure he is also aware of how he is and is trying to somehow control it. Not that it excuses anything, I avoid him like a plague. But at least he is better then those Imms who think a player is shit and never let them know they think so, only shittalking backstage. Personally, after Nyr took over north. Things began to change. Did they improve Tuluk considerably? I'm not so sure. Are there attempts to improve it? Very much so. Nyr might be an unpredictable, unreasonable ass, but he is prolific. Some of those changes can really only show up when players create the characters and develop them to take use of those changes. So far, it's going slowly. Fate of any perma death mud. Nyr went from running independents in 2010/early 2011, to running the north a little after that, when Senga retired. I know this because Nyr and I got into it while I was on staff with him as a ST for human tribals (independents) while he was their admin. That is when I left. Rathustra had already been promoted to admin by that point, and it was shortly after when Welda was promoted to Admin and stationed in the south. And actually, Rissa had to leave Tuluk/bards as her main clan BECAUSE Nyr was made Northern staff at that point. That is the rule, if you are/have been indeed, staff, then you know that you're not allowed to play in clans that you are staffing, and that was right around the time she joined Kurac, iirc. While I agree about Tuluk being subpar long before that, that was largely due to Senga being someone that the only northern storyteller for months (me) and the new northern storyteller (Lacustre) had to hunt down via IM among other things because of inactivity. It was her retiring finally which left the north with no admin. Frankly, the last time Tuluk was interesting to me personally was in 2008. I'm not saying that people avoid the north because the north sucks. I'm saying that people avoid the north because they avoid joining clans whose staff they have a problem with - and with every single northern clan... their admin is Nyr. It is a small wonder that so much bitching is done about the low population and proliferation of independents in Tuluk. When people seek to avoid problem staff, that is to be expected when problem staff runs an entire city-state, and yes, that may sound mean, rude, unfair, or judgemental. But how many of the 200 or more people on here joined because of a falling out directly with him? I would guess the number runs somewhere between 20 and 40 percent. That is a problem staffer. Sorry. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2014 23:04:39 GMT -5
What you've left out is what happened after Nyr's initial shitting on dissenters and before he allowed refusals. A large chunk of the active shady people retire. Some stored. I recall one or two left the game entirely. IIRC it was just under 10 PCs. Tuluk's activity level imploded. Since nobody was willing to try his idiotic system even to keep characters they'd invested time in, he's dialed it back slightly. the discussion did jack shit. It's still true the third time I said it. I have no doubt he still thinks his original system was brilliant. He probably believes everyone who quit was a baby for not trying it or some equally insulting dismissal. Do you know anyone specific who left or stored over this system? To my recollection, the system did not even go live into the game until the changes were made. So what exactly did they store over? 10 people? Has this new system even impacted anyone yet? For better OR worse? To my knowledge, it is still in the very birthing stages. |
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