Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Dec 8, 2019 11:16:54 GMT -5
Move those goal posts Qwerty.
I believe her - You say Staff are feminists - You say He's an asshole - You say It doesn't affect the game - You say He's more good than bad - You say
All of these statements cannot coexist. Either Shaleah has a valid complaint about the staffer being creepy with a literal screenshot of him making a sex joke or she doesn't. You cannot admit to everything being true and believable up to the point that oh but his value outweighs his worth.
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ShaLeah
Clueless newb
Sooth Saying & Seeking Clueless Vet
Posts: 65
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 8, 2019 11:22:33 GMT -5
Shaleah, you're like, a living legend when it comes to this game. You've interacted with my PCs, never in a positive manner because I'm an asshole, but I don't fault you for it, every time you fucked over my PCs I was quite rightly humbled for it, and the consequences weren't so simple as a mantis-head, it was always a "You're going to wish you were dead" scenario, and yeah, it opened a lot of doors and taught me a whole lot. You do troll people sometimes, but I don't see that as a bannable offense. People need to get tough. Let's address the claim of trolling from nessalin. A) It was a comment I made to triste, a joke. They laughed. In addition, it was IN SPANISH which means someone looked it up to justify banning me. So I made a staff complaint knowing full well it was going to accomplish nothing. Here is THAT: documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:4c48a699-30b6-4c4a-9f12-e4a3cad25945I actually tried to speak to nessalin directly. He told me he doesn't speak to players. I have that screenshot...ted(?) too. There is a set of rules. I didn't break them. Basically I have gotten banned because ... ? I'm too vocal? I tell the truth? I don't shy away from debate? They don't like me as a person? My direct manner makes THEM uncomfortable (whoever them are, however many them are)? My opinion doesn't change when they tell me I'm wrong? I advocate quite loudly against the things they've changed that fundamentally alter the game's danger/flavor/fervor by hashtagging bringbackxyz? Heh. I do not care what they or anyone think of me, my job on that game was to have fun, the out of character kankshit I tolerated for decades I will no longer tolerate. If you cannot put your personal feelings aside for the game to thrive then you are not a leader, you're an owner and as a MUD Administrator you must be both.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Dec 8, 2019 11:23:09 GMT -5
I think the GDB comment he made in that Veselka/Bebop thing was way over the line. If people have quit over Shalooonsh then that is a hugely negative thing. The problem is do staff care if players leave over stuff like that? @qwerty makes a good point about the game. If I just login and enjoy the game I don't really have any problems with staff, it is always on the GDB or something where I get in trouble because I like to speak my mind and I see confrontation as a good thing for resolving shit. Ultimately the two are intertwined, you can absolutely play the game without getting involved on the GDB, in the discord, on reddit, or any of that. In fact that's the best way to play I think, but for some of us we have to feel like we have a voice and are being heard about concerns and to be quite frank the request tool doesn't make me feel like I have a voice.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Dec 8, 2019 11:31:06 GMT -5
I think your staff request was well-worded, Shaleah. I wish I had words like that sometimes. I have a lot of problems because people misread me, whether I'm typing or speaking, despite all the pains I take to make what I say as easy as possible to take. I simply am incapable of going that extra step and making things plain, and I think you did that there. What was the response? Because I thought that request was worded rather well.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Dec 8, 2019 11:34:26 GMT -5
Also apparently sometimes I threaten to cut off people's heads and shit down their throats, naturally, people do not take kindly to that kind of talk. I chalk it up to cultural differences.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 11:41:01 GMT -5
Move those goal posts Qwerty. I believe her - You say Staff are feminists - You say He's an asshole - You say It doesn't affect the game - You say He's more good than bad - You say All of these statements cannot coexist. Either Shaleah has a valid complaint about the staffer being creepy with a literal screenshot of him making a sex joke or she doesn't. You cannot admit to everything being true and believable up to the point that oh but his value outweighs his worth. Let me put it this way. Similar jokes were made at Shaleah and by Shaleah and nobody butted an eye. Now Shaleah and Loonsh are beefing and suddenly "it's creepy". Loonsh likes to talk about murder and fucking your skull and all that shit. He's crass. He's not sexually creepy. Now if he did what kaitrenna claimed? Now 'that' is sexually creepy and is completely out of bounds. It is also very much outside of loonsh MO. That was predator level creepy. Loonsh is more of a 8th grader buck teeth heckler level creepy. Until you refuse to go to that level. And then he shifts to "What's up, bro" behavior. Everything on kaitrenna log screams fake. From Loonsh behavior, to the sexual request, to the offer to do something Loonsh doesn't even have authority to do. Even if he just simply decided to help that noob out, he couldn't animate an NPC of a house he's not even over and actually recruit a person. If it was Byn maybe. But not Kadius. Let alone the fact that the deed is so horrible that even if Loonsh was that evil sex predator, he'd be able to do this without being so blatantly obvious. Much like with Whistleblower. The situation needs to be either dismissed, or brought down to a point where loonsh should not only be removed from staff. But also banned as a player and maybe even put on some list by IRL authorities. Evidently it is provable, just a matter of downloading Skype and letting a neutral party look at it? People here keep saying that there are others who claimed the same things about Loonsh. Yeah. Others. Who faked logs of a request exchange, but didn't know Admins can't resolve staff complaints. And once pressed for the most basic of proofs, dissapeared into smoke. That's the level of people accusing loonsh of sexual harassment.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Dec 8, 2019 11:44:35 GMT -5
You draw a hard line, my friend. Are you prepared, QWERTY, to back all that up against the inevitable face-fucking flood of demands you're going to recieve?
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Dec 8, 2019 11:58:12 GMT -5
I want to also note though that the request tool does give you a voice with staff. I feel like most people want dialogue with a community at large not just one or two people. Overall I'm impressed with the request tool it's a good thing to have and I personally have reached resolutions with staff using it.
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ShaLeah
Clueless newb
Sooth Saying & Seeking Clueless Vet
Posts: 65
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 8, 2019 12:14:42 GMT -5
Move those goal posts Qwerty. I believe her - You say Staff are feminists - You say He's an asshole - You say It doesn't affect the game - You say He's more good than bad - You say All of these statements cannot coexist. Either Shaleah has a valid complaint about the staffer being creepy with a literal screenshot of him making a sex joke or she doesn't. You cannot admit to everything being true and believable up to the point that oh but his value outweighs his worth. Let me put it this way. Similar jokes were made at Shaleah and by Shaleah and nobody butted an eye. Now Shaleah and Loonsh are beefing and suddenly "it's creepy". Loonsh likes to talk about murder and fucking your skull and all that shit. He's crass. He's not sexually creepy. Now if he did what kaitrenna claimed? Now 'that' is sexually creepy and is completely out of bounds. It is also very much outside of loonsh MO. That was predator level creepy. Loonsh is more of a 8th grader buck teeth heckler level creepy. Until you refuse to go to that level. And then he shifts to "What's up, bro" behavior. Everything on kaitrenna log screams fake. From Loonsh behavior, to the sexual request, to the offer to do something Loonsh doesn't even have authority to do. Even if he just simply decided to help that noob out, he couldn't animate an NPC of a house he's not even over and actually recruit a person. If it was Byn maybe. But not Kadius. Let alone the fact that the deed is so horrible that even if Loonsh was that evil sex predator, he'd be able to do this without being so blatantly obvious. Much like with Whistleblower. The situation needs to be either dismissed, or brought down to a point where loonsh should not only be removed from staff. But also banned as a player and maybe even put on some list by IRL authorities. Evidently it is provable, just a matter of downloading Skype and letting a neutral party look at it? People here keep saying that there are others who claimed the same things about Loonsh. Yeah. Others. Who faked logs of a request exchange, but didn't know Admins can't resolve staff complaints. And once pressed for the most basic of proofs, dissapeared into smoke. That's the level of people accusing loonsh of sexual harassment. -My- complaint about loonsh isn't about his creepiness btw. Don't put words into my mouth. I posted that to show he is in fact fucking creepy. That's why I believe her.
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Post by shakes on Dec 8, 2019 12:14:54 GMT -5
>_> so we've gone from we believe what Shaleah is showing is real to oh but it doesn't matter. She's explained things she said to provide context was deleted from the channel and is raising a -complaint- about it. She is providing it as proof that Shalnooshboosh makes inappropriate remarks in a sexual context without being punished. How is her complaint and the fact it was deleted according to her not sufficient context to at least know it was inappropriate or uninvited? You're not understanding what I'm saying. It was inappropriate, but they DID have a relationship. They communicated (apparently) a lot via Discord PM. Am I to believe this was the only time he ever said anything freaky? It shows he's violating the game rules AND is a stalky perv. The first I suspected, the second I already knew. However, seems like it was consensual up until a certain point with Shaleah. With this other person, the claim is that he initiated the inappropriate contact and took it all along in a direction the other person did not consent to. I find it hard to believe that there's not more members of staff leaking OOC info all over the place via Discord. Some of those mysterious deaths I've had, or knowledge that was only in my bio and I'd never spoken which random players seemed to know ... that suddenly makes a lot more sense now.
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Post by shakes on Dec 8, 2019 12:22:14 GMT -5
Also, Shabago ... you fucking owe me an apology. You chewed my ass out for distrusting staff when I voiced my suspicion that people were sharing OOC info. You said it was against the rules for staff to even TALK to other people on Discord and that all communication via Discord with players was to be reported to a producer.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 12:29:31 GMT -5
You draw a hard line, my friend. Are you prepared, QWERTY, to back all that up against the inevitable face-fucking flood of demands you're going to recieve? Short answer yes. But what are you referring to? I wrote a shitton of text. Demands for what? Am I prepared to refuse to participate in arm if Loonsh is proven to have really be that predator someone is attempting to portray him as? Yeah. But it's an easy promise to make. Considering the current producer team, if this stuff is actually proven true, the time loonsh will stay as staff will be counted in minutes. Just actually prove it. That kind of issue isn't judged in court of public opinion. Everybody likes to hate in our little community.
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Post by jcarter on Dec 8, 2019 12:29:36 GMT -5
Loonsh likes to talk about murder and fucking your skull and all that shit. He's crass. He's not sexually creepy. yes, he is. someone that has a reputation for making crass sexual comments and talking about having sex with corpses is sexually creepy. i'm obviously not a puritan. people make sexual jokes or references from time to time, and that's just a person making a joke. a person that frequently talks about it, irrelevantly brings it up, shifts the conversation to it, and graphically describes it isn't just a person making a joke. they're a creep.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 12:31:29 GMT -5
Also, Shabago ... you fucking owe me an apology. You chewed my ass out for distrusting staff when I voiced my suspicion that people were sharing OOC info. You said it was against the rules for staff to even TALK to other people on Discord and that all communication via Discord with players was to be reported to a producer. Somehow I think you have misread this. Was this exchange part of a request? Can you post it? Are you certain it's not "Any communication regarding in game stuff" or something similar?
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Dec 8, 2019 12:51:20 GMT -5
If Discord PMs had to be reported to a Producer that's absurd. Staff should be able to talk to players in PMs I think the issue arises with stuff like this thread. The request tool can't be spoofed.
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