Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 15:25:06 GMT -5
You ended a great post with:
"Summary
In short I am imploring you all as a community to consider finding alternatives to PK for the good of the game WHEN you can. I am NOT saying there is no place for PK. I’m saying I want to see PK be better roleplayed, less frequent and for more solid reasons due to playability and player retention.
There is no point in being the king of the hill if that hill is a teeny tiny sandbox lump. I feel the game desperately needs to consider the code and how it has been far too relaxed in order to allow PK without any crim code repercussions. I also think collectively, as a community we need to strive to create a strong tapestry that will ensnare players with a story and the depth of our interactions.
I don’t know all of you or what your place is in this story we all enjoy but I hope this will seed something in the mind of players and staff or start a dialogue at the very least. I do believe this is a valid concern giving the state and size of this game."
I agree with almost everything you wrote. I would like to point out though, there is a block of veteran players and high karma accounts reinforcing this behavior. 2 muls in the south, 2 sorcs in the north, a psion I cant find, the crimson wind, and the veteran elves in the Pah are basically all 2+ karma.
I'd like to discuss a better solution too. I also cant help but laugh when a pre 2008 veteran bemoans the lack of rp. Yall are the ones shoving knives in it, and refusing to play with the newer players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 15:59:30 GMT -5
What makes you say that? Refusing to play with newer players bit, I mean.
How is an existence of a Psi facilitating PK happy culture? How do Sorcs? Are they all PK happy? This is a serious question, I dont actually know. I assume the Muls are raiders, but are they PK everyone type of raiders? You've listed a number of very high karma role, but are they all PK happy?
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 1, 2018 16:06:07 GMT -5
As a brief aside... the higher karma your role the more you have to lose. Also as a rule of thumb the higher karma your role the less welcome you are in 'civil society'. It is par for the course for muls, sorcs, and mindbenders to resort to PK moreso than other types of characters. It's a simple risk/reward scenario. Do I feel this person represents a high threat of bringing a mob/templar/gicker strike force down upon me. If yes then you are almost forced to kill them or reap the future death of your character. If no then you don't need to kill them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 16:31:25 GMT -5
Well. That is true. But that is alas the facet of the gameplay. It's only gotten worse with the introduction of the sorc subguilds. Before, sorcs were powerful and self reliant enough that being 'found out' would not concern them so much. Now, a single witness = eternal exile from all places of civilizations, that does tend to encourage PK. But that's hardly a player's fault. It is how the game is.
It's a balance. Between being careful with PK and being completely PKless game. It's hard to balance outcries that wilderness is too safe and we need more raiders and people are too quick to PK.
In all honesty, I think Bebop's outcry is about the current Allanaki politics. Where two nobles cant think of any solutions to problems, except putting contracts out on everything that moves.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 1, 2018 16:38:14 GMT -5
I wasn't blaming the characters I am pointing out how higher karma characters can be seen as more prone to PK. Whether it is PK happy or an issue born from gameplay issues doesn't change the optics of it.
Probably does encourage a review by staff to change the status quo if they want to enable more solutions than PK.
In truth game theory is the issue with all PK escalation concerns.
In a game where anything short of PK is not a solution but an invitation to escalate it behooves players to PK first and early. Only by discouraging PK as a solution (in Allanak for politics) do other options become more viable. The other issue is that how are noble houses supposed to compete in a mechanically meaningful way? If you cannot affect the income, the prestige, or the day to day play of a Houses characters then you cannot affect the house. You can kill people off though. That affects the house ergo it is used.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 17:13:46 GMT -5
Agreed.
Unfortunately that flaw is at the very foundation of the game. Time and time again, various nobles and people managed to commit faux pas and not only survive them, but rather literally ignore them. The sad part of Armageddon is that in it, power is not information, wealth, courage, or charisma. In Armageddon power is Power. And while that sounds nice, it basically means degradation to code and death.
I honestly do not know how to fix this. Definitely not something that can be done with a snap of a finger. One needs to make the noble and merchant house standings 'extremely' more dynamic.
In a way, Tuluki workings was an attempt to do this. But it failed, or the price paid was far too high. It's a complicated issue.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 1, 2018 17:58:44 GMT -5
The flaw is not the foundation of the game. The flaw is the lack of development of the game.
1) Investigation updates. Enabling characters to piece together pertinent information of a death without outright saying who adjusts the risk/reward ratio of resorting to PK
2) Prestige/Influence quantified. This gives noble houses metrics to judge their influence by and you can even tie modifiers to this. Arx does this very well (as an example) Haven does this medicore (as a secondary example)
3) Temporary States. Haven has rituals which are poorly implemented but allow characters to target one another with non-lethal affects which affect gameplay. This should be considered a starting point.
4) I was going to keep going but the point is there are 100% game developments that can be done that are not pursued in any way shape or form.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 21:04:13 GMT -5
As a brief aside... the higher karma your role the more you have to lose. Also as a rule of thumb the higher karma your role the less welcome you are in 'civil society'. It is par for the course for muls, sorcs, and mindbenders to resort to PK moreso than other types of characters. It's a simple risk/reward scenario. Do I feel this person represents a high threat of bringing a mob/templar/gicker strike force down upon me. If yes then you are almost forced to kill them or reap the future death of your character. If no then you don't need to kill them. Yes, but nothing that says a karma 3 player cant mix with the savages. Cmon, I'm not to the only person who can see the same two and three muls running around together, over and over again. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 21:20:55 GMT -5
What makes you say that? Refusing to play with newer players bit, I mean. How is an existence of a Psi facilitating PK happy culture? How do Sorcs? Are they all PK happy? This is a serious question, I dont actually know. I assume the Muls are raiders, but are they PK everyone type of raiders? You've listed a number of very high karma role, but are they all PK happy? I cant back up most of these without tipping my hand on who I play. The southern muls pkd people I know a bit and the crimson wind pkd me alot. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 21:42:41 GMT -5
Yeah. Crimson Wind most def pk people a lot. Though most of the time, due to raiding activities. Though the way they pked Inks character was the lamest of them all.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Oct 1, 2018 21:53:16 GMT -5
Yeah. Crimson Wind most def pk people a lot. Though most of the time, due to raiding activities. Though the way they pked Inks character was the lamest of them all. what happened |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 22:01:55 GMT -5
Basically. Amon'ma was very very rare. So much so that his character took over leadership. He was playing this scary cannibalistic dwarf who was completely fat and totally badass. Then Amon'ma returned to activity, killed the dwarf to regain leadership, and then became scarce again. Boom. Plop. Poof.
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Post by shakes on Oct 1, 2018 22:20:36 GMT -5
!!! I remember that fat cannibal dwarf. He was roleplayed very, very well. I would have been thrilled to see him take over and run with that mantle of leadership. I don't really like Inks from his GDB persona, but I really liked that character. Weird, huh? Maybe people aren't always who they come across as on the GDB.
Several times recently I've declined to get involved with Amon because I know I'll just become known as a raider and then he'll disappear and I'll be all alone dealing with the repercussions of BEING a raider.
It's time he let go of that and retired. Not stored. Maybe go on to become a Sandlord-esque bandit-chieftain, but let some other people actually run the thing.
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Hey Bebop
Oct 2, 2018 8:58:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pinkerdlu on Oct 2, 2018 8:58:57 GMT -5
Basically. Amon'ma was very very rare. So much so that his character took over leadership. He was playing this scary cannibalistic dwarf who was completely fat and totally badass. Then Amon'ma returned to activity, killed the dwarf to regain leadership, and then became scarce again. Boom. Plop. Poof. I'm not sure it happened *exactly* like that. To my knowledge, Dokkar and Amon'ma had been tight and playing actively together for a couple of months. Then Amon'ma kills Dokkar out of nowhere, the Crimson Wind die down and become largely irrelevant and yeah, Amon'ma becomes scarce for months-on-end. Now, apparently, he's still alive but only exists to police the PC dynamic in Red Storm at will. Reminds me of that rinth mul, Shanks, who may or may not still be alive. Boring motherfucker who would RARELY log in and had this obsession with uniting westside and eastside. So when he did log in, it was usually to PK someone and bring an end to anything and everything of interest or fun in the Labyrinth. But maybe I don't have a clue, lemme know. Just a thought: there are plenty of long-lived characters that have their hayday, then things settle down, become boring, and they become husks of their former selves, logging on once in a blue moon to do... not much. But this only really proves to become a problem with the high karma characters. As Jeshin pointed out, their roles naturally put them in opposition to most of the playerbase. Meanwhile, long-lived mundanes like the Legionaire dwarf Dragan can go on living while fulfilling an important clan role, teaching newbies, taking part in most plots, etc. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2018 9:19:38 GMT -5
Out of curiosity. What exactly did Shanks do? Like, whom exactly did he kill and for what? Uniting west/east is ... a goal. Not a good one, not a bad one. I dont really know the character myself, but I'm curious. Would you be able to provide any what so ever detail? Anything he actually did?
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