mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Aug 28, 2018 11:29:07 GMT -5
It's sort of true. If a good half of staffers simply cannot stand some particular player, odds are there wont be an extensive amount of work done on that player's singular behest. Only way to solve this is to have plots that involve a lot of players. Not A single one with some tiny assistance of one, or two more. When those two are known to always play with the originator with different characters. But a convoluted ambition that has seven to twelve players somehow embroiled into it. These things tend to be what makes things happen. Staff have always had an unwritten policy that the best way to use staff time is to target the greatest amount of players with the same effort. But that's a double-edged sword, too. Even a world-spanning plot won't accommodate every player, and those that don't will feel even more left out due to the fact that a large number of players fit in. Those that die in the middle of a world-spanning plot also find it hard to get back into it, again leaving them out.
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Post by jcarter on Aug 28, 2018 11:29:19 GMT -5
fyi a lot of the background lore and info on gypsies can be seen on the arm wiki (armageddonmud.wikia.com). imo they were a bad mary sue-style clan with background and lore that were so outside of the themes of Arm and 'low-fantasy' attitude. if there's enough interest in griping about them it can be split off into a separate thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 12:06:48 GMT -5
Thankfully, they're dead. And if they ever resurface, they're going to be a lot more different and hopefully more awesome. Doesnt really make much difference at this point. Let the dead mary sue lay in pieces. .
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Post by shakes on Aug 28, 2018 17:40:33 GMT -5
I have high hopes for this plot, but my fear is that it'll unfold and those of us who aren't involved will never really hear what happened.
So much of what goes on in the game might be really cool, but it all unfolds in a shroud of secrecy and you never hear.
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tedium
Clueless newb
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Post by tedium on Aug 28, 2018 17:53:26 GMT -5
tedium 2) The Lirathan PCs couldn't do what they do best, which is sniff out spies with psionic power, because the spy PCs somehow were immune from getting caught. (And by "somehow" I mean they were too important to be stopped - the volcano plot had to go forward.) Another point in that regard is that the whole plot led to the destruction of the Hlum caste, which removed yet another avenue of advancement for Tuluki PCs, one that was actually appropriate for the setting even if it was extremely rare and decided upon by the staff. I RPed with some of the spies quite a bit, and just scratched my head when it all went down. It wasn't like the spies were regular grebbers who just flew under the radar, either. If I remember right, one was a Sergeant in the army, and the other was a noble consort who actually met Utep. Barrier OP?
I have high hopes for this plot, but my fear is that it'll unfold and those of us who aren't involved will never really hear what happened. So much of what goes on in the game might be really cool, but it all unfolds in a shroud of secrecy and you never hear. That's usually how it goes. I won't be surprised if it plays out the same as every other time, but I really hope that they don't just feed the plot to a handful of players.
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Post by sirra on Aug 28, 2018 20:35:44 GMT -5
Morever, to go after the gypsies while simultaneously supporting iso-clans with very similar traits (magickers west of Nak) seems like evidence of hypocrisy. It was as if a multitude of old clans were retconned, restricted, or removed while simultaneously allowing for an arguably even stronger (in terms of code) group to form, supported by staff to the point where they had a magicker iso-clan in an area harder to reach than either the Conclave or the Tan Muark. The problem with gypsies is that they were such a parody by the time of their destruction, that even the GDB was ragging on them. Staff never lost an interest in supporting overpowered, gicker-heavy iso clans made up of their alts and friends. It's just they lost interest in the gypsies. By the time the gypsies were destroyed, they mostly consisted of non-staff alts, non staff favorites, but still continuing that gypsy tradition of being absolutely insufferable. But let's not mourn the gypos as there was truly nothing justifying their continuing inclusion.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Aug 29, 2018 6:38:41 GMT -5
Back when I played a couple of years ago, you could tell who the staff alts and staff pets were by looking at who was having the most success building their own merchant house or raider group, or building up a solo raider PC. It didn't hurt that I had a staff friend who was willing to tell me who plays whom, and how certain staff would see who is online and where they were before logging into their mortal PC to raid them. Something that is explicitly against staff's rules. I can't imagine that behavior has changed much now that the Producers are even more detached from the social and roleplaying aspects of the game and focused more singularly on code.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Aug 30, 2018 2:08:58 GMT -5
Qwerty are you back on staff now?
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Post by yourvisiongoesblack on Aug 30, 2018 10:19:00 GMT -5
It didn't hurt that I had a staff friend who was willing to tell me who plays whom, and how certain staff would see who is online and where they were before logging into their mortal PC to raid them. *massaging temples* What I really want to do right now is call you a liar, but, obviously, someone on staff gave you the code of the entire game. So, it's hard for me to easily dismiss that this happened.
I mean, historically, we had Bhag who would use his own PCs - while controling multiple PCs within multiple clans simultaneously - to influence things in his favor, things that negatively impacted me as a player and maybe even, in a way, contributed to the second pieces of karma I received: A sympathic imm or imms saw how Bhag had just PK'd my Rebellion spy (2000-2001) with his PC Red Robe Templar avatar, and that's probably how I received desert elf/Blackwing karma after the death of that character. A separate imm probably saw how this was just the result of Bhag abusing OOC information and decided to give me a cookie after that long-lived PC died to imm abuse of OOC info. Just a theory, but, in retrospect, it makes sense I'm digressing some, but everyone kinda knew that Bhag was playing that templar, just like how everyone kinda knew he was playing a Tor noble and a gypsy at the same time. But, you know, I was probably only 15-16 at the time, so, while I knew these facts, it didn't really push me to the point of saying or complaining about it. When I was a kid, I viewed staff as kinda like coaches or teachers, you know, people in positions of authority that you respected and that you trusted. I was a pretty good kid and always had a drive to perform well for teachers and coaches, and this definitely extended to ArmageddonMUD. In a similar vein, well, I was raised in the Deep South where religiously, socially, politically, and in terms of interacting with authority figures, you aren't supposed really question people who are in charge of you.
When Bhag killed that Rebellion PC of mine despite knowing he did it with OOC info, I was just kinda like "Oh well, that sucked!" I didn't become indignant or get mad or lash out or start throwing around accusations on the GDB or via emails about the rules of the game being broken. But should I have? Had I made a scene about it, well, maybe it's possible that I never would have been granted karma or offered the roles that I was. Calling bullshit was entirely justified, but, because I really wasn't to type of person to rock the boat, I didn't. It wasn't until years later that Bhag left staff, probably shitting on others aong the way. I'm digressing a lot here as I think back on staff abusing OOC info. I didn't really believe that the game, in the recent past, was capable of having imms who would do shit like tell a *player* who plays what PC or go so far as to coordinate raids, especially if those raids resulted in PKs or were for gain as opposed to giving a chance to RP. It's a discouraging thing to think about. Some questions, mehtastic : Was Nyr the face of the producers when this happened? Were you friends with this imm before they became an imm? Do you know how long they had played the game before becoming staff? What do you think caused that staff member to share OOC info with players or otherwise form an agenda against the game? Since these boards were active around the time you were communicating with that staff member, do you think there were any specific topics brought up here that spurred them to just kinda say Fuck It to being a serious member of the game's staff, resulting in what was shared with you, such as the code of the fucking game itself? And look, if you want to answers those questions, try to do so as objectively as you can. You're a good writer but lose me when your hate boner gets in the way of valid critiques.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Aug 30, 2018 11:14:50 GMT -5
If you want me to answer your questions, saying I have a hate boner is disingenuous as all hell. I've been nothing but constructive towards you. However, I will answer your questions anyway.
Was Nyr the face of the producers when this happened? Yes.
Were you friends with this imm before they became an imm? Yes.
Do you know how long they had played the game before becoming staff? About 10 years.
What do you think caused that staff member to share OOC info with players or otherwise form an agenda against the game? The fact that the staff did not demonstrate any regard for the game and were using their positions to get perks for themselves and their friends. The fact that players who benefited from this the most were often the loudest pro-staff shills.
Since these boards were active around the time you were communicating with that staff member, do you think there were any specific topics brought up here that spurred them to just kinda say Fuck It to being a serious member of the game's staff, resulting in what was shared with you, such as the code of the fucking game itself? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your question, but no, the staff member's only influence was the staff body itself.
Stop buying into qwerty's nonsense that I hate the game. I don't. I genuinely feel bad for people who still play the game, thinking that it isn't rigged against them, when it absolutely is rigged against the vast majority of players. Especially you.
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Post by sirra on Aug 30, 2018 15:07:21 GMT -5
It didn't hurt that I had a staff friend who was willing to tell me who plays whom, and how certain staff would see who is online and where they were before logging into their mortal PC to raid them. *massaging temples* What I really want to do right now is call you a liar, but, obviously, someone on staff gave you the code of the entire game. So, it's hard for me to easily dismiss that this happened. Hate to tell you, but Armageddon staff have been infamously promiscuous, for at least the last, oh...20 years? In sharing staff only information with their friends. It is a tradition as old as time, for them to not only take advantage of the +where, but even tell people who was TSing who, and other weird little Real Housewives of the Atrium drama bullshit, that mostly nobles, aides and Allanaki gemmers seem to bring on themselves. That said. The vast majority of staff (90%ish?) are as ignorant of the game's fundamental mechanics, even as to simple stuff like how learning combat skills work, as most players are. There have been repeated cases of staff claiming things worked a certain way, only to be dead wrong, or for former staff, with no love for the game, to still not know for sure how things worked. Most staffers tend to be chosen from the ranks of those who mostly stick to social PCs and gickers. Those rare few old school staff selected from combat twinks were the source for most of what we thought we knew about how the game worked, for most of the game's existence. But even the most ignorant fuckhole time server could easily see who was playing what, when, and where, and they were quite free in sharing that information, and making alts to go squirm themselves into whatever looked fun on the grid. And as I experienced personally, they were perfectly happy to use that information to arrange PKs as well. I witnessed several extremely unethical PKs in my time in Arm, such as would get most people banned, but which went entirely unpunished. Typically, it worked in the fashion of one staffer being extra nice and supportive of another staffer's alts plus friends, and that staffer returning the favor. It was rarely as blatant as them puffing up the same clan that they were in, but sometimes it was (gypsies). There is probably not a day that goes by, without someone on staff, sharing privileged information with a non-staff or former staff friend. Most of it's in the vein of who's doing what to whom on the grid.
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Post by shakes on Aug 30, 2018 15:34:23 GMT -5
I have no proof that this happens, but it feeds into my paranoia of various events that have happened to me.
But I can neither change it nor stop it. It's one of those bits of knowledge that, even if I could prove it true conclusively, would bring me no joy nor satisfaction.
A couple of times I've filed player complaints, and received such VITRIOL and personal attacks in response that I knew I'd stepped in someone's circle. It's led me to a complete unwillingness to file complaints knowing that 1. Not much is going to happen and 2. I'm only going to be perceived as a whiny little bitch for doing so.
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Post by lyse on Aug 30, 2018 15:36:30 GMT -5
Meh, hasn’t said anything that you didn’t know already deep down. He’s pretty much confirmed the things that have been said over the years. I’ll summarize in bullet points
*staff doesn’t give a shit about most players. *staff favors certain players over others and that can change like the wind does *staff does cheat *staff uses knowledge to benefit their players and/or friends.
The reason it’s so hard to believe is because that absolutely isn’t what staff should be doing at any point. When it’s discovered that staff member should be rolled out of the game on a razor blade slide.
It’s also hard to believe because they keep saying “...but it’s different now, we don’t do anything like that.”
The reason it’s so hard to believe is because you’ve been lied to, taking your personal time to do something that in essence was meaningless in a bad way, not really for your enjoyment but for someone else’s.
That’s a tough pill to swallow. But looking at the history of the board here that’s what it amounts to. A lot of people refuse to see that and continue playing.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Aug 30, 2018 16:04:39 GMT -5
Not only is it nothing new, it's the only thing I've stated as my issues with the game. It beggars belief that I get beaten down by a couple of posters on these forums for hating the game when all I've ever tried to do is warn players of staff's bullshit, point out corruption, and attempt to demonstrate how easy supposedly difficult and time-consuming staff tasks are.
I get that some people don't want to hear the truth. There is something to the whole "ignorance is bliss" idea. Most people don't want to know how their hot dogs are made. Well, you could keep eating hot dogs at Arm or you could go to a MU* where the staff treat players right. Many of those games exist.
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Post by lyse on Aug 30, 2018 16:39:38 GMT -5
I mean....they always say "The game isn't meant to be fair..." on the GDB. You don't really believe a player thought that up do you? That's supposed to be you panacea when you get dookied on.
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