|
|
Post by sirra on Aug 26, 2018 18:46:05 GMT -5
The problem with Gypsies is that they started out as a Mary Sue clan that was pampered and catered to by Sanvean. They lingered on for a little while after Sanvean left, but in the last couple years, they weren't nearly as pampered, though they still had numerous silly benefits and an annoying IC culture.
Once the last staff alt lost interest in them, and they became more of an overwhelming parody OOCly, Nyr finally just nuked them.
Every now and then, Nyr could read the writing on the wall. Getting rid of the Gypsies was one occasion. Closing Tuluk, the other. There was just rarely any meaningful followup that should have capitalized on it. Closing Tuluk for example, would have been the perfect opportunity to redouble focus on running Allanaki RPTs and plots, and supercharging those clans. But the way it was handled in practicality, is that the remaining Clans continued receiving the same (lack of) attention they always received. So there wasn't really any benefits reaped.
The last character I ever made for Arm, was right after Tuluk closed, cause I genuinely thought it might be the shot in the arm the game needed to return to its roots. But it was not.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Aug 26, 2018 18:46:57 GMT -5
The Volcano Switcheroo wasn't just lazy in a narrative way; it was lazy in an administrative way as well. My sources tell me that the volcano, in its new location, is still in the same zone as the desert west of Allanak. Which means the weather around the volcano is always the same as the weather outside of Allanak. They didn't rebuild rooms, or even copy and paste them into the scrublands zone; they just reconnected rooms haphazardly. You can still see some of the effects of the Expert Building if you go east, west, and east again in certain rooms in the scrublands and you'll teleport to a different part of the scrub. What a sad joke.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
|
Post by mehtastic on Aug 26, 2018 19:03:59 GMT -5
Sooo, what you're asking for is basically a trigger warning congratulations to qwerty for winning the gold medal in mental gymnastics with this post. @qwerty is just buttmad that the sHaDoWbOaRd has been quiet for a few days and now it isn't. All because destroying-the-game mehtastic had to idly comment on something stupid staff are trying to do to create fake action. |
|
|
|
Post by lechuck on Aug 26, 2018 22:17:35 GMT -5
The problem with Gypsies is that they started out as a Mary Sue clan that was pampered and catered to by Sanvean. They lingered on for a little while after Sanvean left, but in the last couple years, they weren't nearly as pampered, though they still had numerous silly benefits and an annoying IC culture. Once the last staff alt lost interest in them, and they became more of an overwhelming parody OOCly, Nyr finally just nuked them. Every now and then, Nyr could read the writing on the wall. Getting rid of the Gypsies was one occasion. Closing Tuluk, the other. There was just rarely any meaningful followup that should have capitalized on it. Closing Tuluk for example, would have been the perfect opportunity to redouble focus on running Allanaki RPTs and plots, and supercharging those clans. But the way it was handled in practicality, is that the remaining Clans continued receiving the same (lack of) attention they always received. So there wasn't really any benefits reaped. The last character I ever made for Arm, was right after Tuluk closed, cause I genuinely thought it might be the shot in the arm the game needed to return to its roots. But it was not. Yeah. For all the myriad shit one could rightfully call the Nyr generation of staff (which comprises not just Nyr but the people he trained) out on, getting rid of Tuluk and the Tan Muark is not really amongst the things they did wrong. And make no mistake, they did so many things wrong! But these were elements of the game that frankly had to go. The only real problem is the fact that they somehow failed to turn the constant culling of content into any kind of meaninful concentration of staff efforts on the remaining parts of the game. |
|
|
|
Post by yourvisiongoesblack on Aug 27, 2018 9:13:27 GMT -5
Nyr didn't readily try to close Tuluk. First, heavy revamps to docs were made in an attempt to change it, but it did not go as planned, shartisting down the drain, inevitably.
I can get behind the fact that something should have been done with the Tan Muark as a clan, because their documentation reflects constant strife and struggle, and what happened to them was merely a continuation of what happened after Kere was destroyed. For a while, even, some PCs were left to play gypsies after the destruction of TYn Dashra, which, I believe, was *great.*
I feel like the main complaints about the clan centered on their base and how hard it was to enter (no different from many clan compounds, save the lands surrounding them), so, if this was an issue, the clan could have remained open, though diminished in power, as other PC nomadic tribes were:
but, to me, it seemed like an OOC agenda for OOC's sake, and was just one of the removals from Nyr squad to remake the game in their image without doing so artfully; the HRPT was only a thin veneer to hide OOC ulterior motives and ultimately served to take more away from the game than add to it, save perhaps a small area now-easily explorale, whilst before it had been manned by NPC guards.
btw, oh, look, per her player account's first GDB post since 2005, Vanth's playing again. I hope the staff is not so starved for imms that they decide to take her back. Please, no. The game does not need any more staff members who are unstable, hold grudges, or use their staff name to lose messy arguments on public forums. Just, no, please.
|
|
|
|
Post by yourvisiongoesblack on Aug 27, 2018 9:24:32 GMT -5
Morever, to go after the gypsies while simultaneously supporting iso-clans with very similar traits (magickers west of Nak) seems like evidence of hypocrisy.
It was as if a multitude of old clans were retconned, restricted, or removed while simultaneously allowing for an arguably even stronger (in terms of code) group to form, supported by staff to the point where they had a magicker iso-clan in an area harder to reach than either the Conclave or the Tan Muark.
|
|
jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
|
Post by jkarr on Aug 27, 2018 9:28:46 GMT -5
but, to me, it seemed like an OOC agenda for OOC's sake, and was just one of the removals from Nyr squad to remake the game in their image without doing so artfullykeeping in theme they did it shartfully |
|
jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
|
Post by jkarr on Aug 27, 2018 9:30:18 GMT -5
It was as if a multitude of old clans were retconned, restricted, or removed while simultaneously allowing for an arguably even stronger (in terms of code) group to form, supported by staff to the point where they had a magicker iso-clan in an area harder to reach than either the Conclave or the Tan Muark. this mustve happened more recent because that doesnt sound familiar what clan was that |
|
|
|
Post by yourvisiongoesblack on Aug 27, 2018 9:57:48 GMT -5
It was as if a multitude of old clans were retconned, restricted, or removed while simultaneously allowing for an arguably even stronger (in terms of code) group to form, supported by staff to the point where they had a magicker iso-clan in an area harder to reach than either the Conclave or the Tan Muark. this mustve happened more recent because that doesnt sound familiar what clan was that Been over RL years and discussed on the GDB. The high karma iso-magicker-mul-sorc-Nilazi camp west of Nak. There are references to it on this board and at the very least the "What ever happened to?" thread on Arm. The player doing that was tizight with Nyr, so I'm not surprised it happened during his reign, further demonstrating the "if Sanvean did it, BAD, but if I do it, GOOD" mentality that seeped from Nyr and crew at times. Similarly, this happened with the tower close to the gith mesa and the nomad outpost years prior, with the group of high karma PCs including The Plainsman's protege/daughter/whatever (who was actually PK'd by a friend of mine in a sorcer duel then rezzed, but that's another story) |
|
|
|
Post by yourvisiongoesblack on Aug 27, 2018 10:05:58 GMT -5
Arguably, it was also the reason sorcs were dropped from a full class to extended subguilds, and, in revamping the magicker classes, staff no doubt took what happened with that group into consideration.
Part of the boon of the class restructuring is that, even if magickers band together, they are significantly limited by the power that they can acrrue in game. Well, at the very least, such groups have primary classes to facilitate roleplay extending beyond sitting around in a spellcasting circle-jerk. They can now craft or hunt or whatever... not simply sit in their sorc/Nilazi/mul guarded fort and cast 24/7.
|
|
jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
|
Post by jkarr on Aug 27, 2018 10:33:10 GMT -5
that sounds familiar if it happened before 2010 but i could be mixing it up with other weird shit that happened in the post arm2 era
|
|
|
|
Post by yourvisiongoesblack on Aug 27, 2018 10:45:03 GMT -5
This is a triple post and digression, but, as a trend, magicker groups tend to have, historically, received more staff support when it comes to clan-building.
IMO, this is for a number of reasons:
1. Historically, before only subguild magickers, they had a greater chance at survival after a certain amount of time/spells accrued. So, there were better odds that they just wouldn't die as soon as a base was constructed for them.
2. Magickers, especially Nilazi/sorcerers/muls, are high karma players. As a result, they are automatically viewed as more "trustworthy" to at least some degree and were/are more likely to receive coded clan support.
The Tower in the Tablelands Tribe, Hasan and company, the Plainsman w/Fel Kerran's keep, the Dragonsthralls, and, more recently, the Crimson Wind, are all examples of this.
Now, aside from desert elves, name a mundane clan not already-established that has received the same amount of support in terms of clan-building. How much of that is the fault of players, and how much is staff's?
The last time I made a strong attempt at forming an independent group composed primarily of long-lived Bynners, I felt like I was thwarted on multiple levels. Shortly after this, yes, guidelines were put in place to provide an outline for how player-created clans might come to be, but did the high karma magicker clans I mentioned above have to deal with the same set of complex and stringent rules? No, at least not to the degree that is expected now, which is probably why player-created clans in the wake of those guidelines have been few and far in between.
|
|
jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
|
Post by jkarr on Aug 27, 2018 11:25:56 GMT -5
This is a triple post and digression, but, as a trend, magicker groups tend to have, historically, received more staff support when it comes to clan-building. The Tower in the Tablelands Tribe, Hasan and company, the Plainsman w/Fel Kerran's keep, the Dragonsthralls, and, more recently, the Crimson Wind, are all examples of this. Now, aside from desert elves, name a mundane clan not already-established that has received the same amount of support in terms of clan-building. How much of that is the fault of players, and how much is staff's? arent the crimson winds a mundane player clan |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 11:51:29 GMT -5
It took RL years of rp of multiple people to get Hasan's camp going. Hasan himself as a PC existed for over a rl year, before the camp even came to being. It's kind of odd to blame staff for not reacting to player's IG actions and ignoring steady work done towards their rped out goals and then blame the staff for doing exactly that. Hasan's group numbered easily over 8 people. If you add Captain Mul (Fuck. I actually forgot his name now) and his group, the Byn Sargeant that defected and various spies, that non coded group numbered easily 18+ people. They managed to kidnap and possess a noblewoman who was an actively played imposter for 6-8 months straight? Without anyone realizing. All of that done entirely player effort, player decision. Eventually staff support did come. Quit/save room was put in, Hasan got a unique mdesc change and some other shit. But that's all. No npc guards, or whatever. At one point, a staff alt 'did' join that group, but that was at a later stage of the game. YEARS after the group's creation and steady operation. To compare that group to Tan Muark; it just doesnt fit in my head.
|
|
|
|
Post by yourvisiongoesblack on Aug 27, 2018 13:14:05 GMT -5
It's not a comparison, and, as I pointed out, a digression about high karma groups tending to gain coded support with more success than mundane groups or emergent clan, and I would go so far as to say that it depends on a staff member or members' attitude towards a player as well. For instance, getting brickwalled on something as simple as a custom crafted cloak.
I am not saying that group was just handed stuff. Undoubtedly, numerous skilled players worked towards something. What I'm saying is that it seems like those groups composed of high karma tend to have been supplemented more via staff more than mundane class groups.
For example, I have not really seen many examples of successful, mundane-based clan building or base building, when I know players have tried.
Having said all that, since the game has, IMO, rightfully shifted toward more mundane classes and play, it would be cool if what has been historically granted, in terms of having a base of sorts, to higher karma type PCs, now might be more attainable for mundane characters/plots beyond shit like PK scenarios.
Then again, it's a slippery slope. When players are given a coded base where they don't have to interact or don't have much of a chance to interact with characters in population centers, it tends to turn into a Bad Thing, and part of the reason iso-clans as a whole have been eliminated: Blackwing, halflings, the Black Moon Raiders, the Conclave, desert elf tribes, the Tan Muark, mantis.
|
|
