king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Apr 9, 2016 21:56:27 GMT -5
The root cause is the ability to see skill levels. I don't think people were ever genuinely supposed to reach master in a skill, hence the terrible fucking skill-grind. Since there's no guesswork and people /want/ to be a master at everything, they do a soul-crushing grind to levels that were intended solely for the exceptionally long-lived characters. Yes, it's impossible to master most skills without twinking. The game wasn't built with the intent of seeing people master shit. Uh... Polearm Pike Knife Razor Trident What other skills are hard to master with some patience? I haven't checked the numbers recently, but don't those branch a while before you cap the corresponding skills? If not, forget it. Twink on.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 9, 2016 22:31:20 GMT -5
The root cause is the ability to see skill levels. I don't think people were ever genuinely supposed to reach master in a skill, hence the terrible fucking skill-grind. Since there's no guesswork and people /want/ to be a master at everything, they do a soul-crushing grind to levels that were intended solely for the exceptionally long-lived characters. Yes, it's impossible to master most skills without twinking. The game wasn't built with the intent of seeing people master shit. Back before you could see skill levels, people used to grind endlessly because they couldn't tell when they got to the end. Sometimes they guessed they peaked when they branched and used that as a sign to grind something else.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Apr 9, 2016 23:05:54 GMT -5
Heaven fucking forbid that a player of a game, a thing they play for enjoyment, dare seek tangible goddamn progress with their character.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 10, 2016 1:20:12 GMT -5
No offense my friend but if you can't think of a reason spice would or should be illegal that's your lack of creativity. Alcohol was forbidden in Islam like how long ago? It makes perfect sense for some corrupt dictator to ban a substance that makes you high as a kite. Not on the grounds that he's looking out for you but because he wants to more easily control the masses. That's the ic reason for you. Then there's the ooc purpose. having something, anything illegal creates conflict and that's what we should be striving for. Look at tuluk. Even stealing and killing people is legal (sort of). Consequently nothing happened and everyone was everyone's friend more or less. I do agree spice should be way cheaper though. Lol wat. Spice doesn't create any conflict. Conflict arises at the intersection of incompatible interests. The problem is, nobody has an OOC interest in using it. I didn't say spice created conflict I said making things illegal does. And I know plenty of pcs who smoke spice, go to luirs or morins. Just because you can't fathom having an ooc interest in it doesn't mean the same is true for everyone. But it could be anything for that matter, doesn't have to be spice. Alcohol, prostitution, weapons....banning or controlling any of these has always resulted in an underground in the real world. My point is that making allanak a culture where everything is forbidden and taboo helps to encourage a criminal element. In tuluk basically everything was legal so it felt too happy go lucky (even though that was not by design).
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Post by sergeantraul on Apr 10, 2016 1:47:01 GMT -5
Lol wat. Spice doesn't create any conflict. Conflict arises at the intersection of incompatible interests. The problem is, nobody has an OOC interest in using it. I didn't say spice created conflict I said making things illegal does. And I know plenty of pcs who smoke spice, go to luirs or morins. Just because you can't fathom having an ooc interest in it doesn't mean the same is true for everyone. But it could be anything for that matter, doesn't have to be spice. Alcohol, prostitution, weapons....banning or controlling any of these has always resulted in an underground in the real world. My point is that making allanak a culture where everything is forbidden and taboo helps to encourage a criminal element. In tuluk basically everything was legal so it felt too happy go lucky (even though that was not by design). What the fuck, we're talking about how spice being illegal is pointless and you're trying to use Red Storm and Luir's as examples of PCs using spice. Duh, people are more willing to play around with it as an RP tool when there is no penalty. People are not willing to risk their characters in Allanak over an RP tool. The only characters in Allanak I've known with spice habits were already untouchable. They weren't Guild customers, either. If you're a noble RPing a spice habit, why would you risk your character and your aide to actual interaction with the Guild and the militia, when you can just send your aide to buy spice in the Mantis, Red Storm or Luir's? Or have them buy directly from Kurac? And I have no fucking clue why you're comparing spice to weapons. If you banned weapons, or poisons, or cures in Allanak--all things that are actually useful--you might actually develop a real underground commercial network. Because they are actually useful. In no way are they comparable to spice. Spice is just an RP tool you can choose to addict your character to. But why would you, when you're risking your character and there are plenty of other things you can be addicted to, like booze, mudsex and NPC murdering.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 10, 2016 2:16:22 GMT -5
Is it possible for you to discuss without being hostile? We're allowed to disagree and exchange ideas without flying off the handle, I think.
You asked several questions about spice, one being why is it illegal in the first place. Without getting into any of the other issues pertaining to spice my one and only point there is that making things illegal helps foster a criminal side to things. Whether or not that works is a different story. I'm simply explaining why keeping it illegal is not necessarily a bad thing.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,030
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Post by jkarr on Apr 10, 2016 3:57:18 GMT -5
Is it possible for you to discuss without being hostile? We're allowed to disagree and exchange ideas without flying off the handle, I think. why the hell are u suddenly caring that hes 'hostile'? he can be as pissy as he likes, just as everyone else here is and i quote: which aspect of it do you find to be a 'shitheap'? the part where posters are allowed to disagree with you and vocalize unpopular opinions without repercussions outside of the board?
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Post by sergeantraul on Apr 10, 2016 10:33:23 GMT -5
Is it possible for you to discuss without being hostile? We're allowed to disagree and exchange ideas without flying off the handle, I think. You asked several questions about spice, one being why is it illegal in the first place. Without getting into any of the other issues pertaining to spice my one and only point there is that making things illegal helps foster a criminal side to things. Whether or not that works is a different story. I'm simply explaining why keeping it illegal is not necessarily a bad thing. I asked the question because it's a question that needs to be substantively answered by the game for the thing to make sense within the game world, and fantasy cocaine subject to a fantasy War on Drugs is not enough. I'm not sure why you tried to take that point out of context. I was not trying to imply that it shouldn't be illegal, or that if it was done properly it wouldn't foster those things you're talking about.
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Post by tektolnes on Apr 10, 2016 11:48:10 GMT -5
They added the Dust Runners (see; GDB > World Discussion > Dust Runners) which I think gives Red Storm a much needed shot in the arm. I believe the Dust Runners also run the Mantis now instead of Kurac because retconn. (Though, maybe they're just a shadow corp of Kurac. *shrug*) So now I think the full chain of the spice trade is handled IC, or close to it. So that's neat, but it still doesn't come close to putting spice in the hands of Nakki's.
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Post by tektolnes on Apr 10, 2016 12:08:49 GMT -5
Also, I'm kind of curious about what Valorisk did to make him such a scary Noble? I honestly don't think I ever saw the guy around, though I'm not a very active player, and it sounds like he wasn't either (of late). Grumble seemed to have a very love hate view of the player. From what I can glean he started a lot of shit, and possibly killed a fair number of PCs. I think quite a few nobles set out to do that, tread on the commonfolk, and a good number of them end up coming off as fuck-nozzles instead of good, villainous nobles. Any anecdotes anyone can share about his play, that don't shit all over any ongoing stories?
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Apr 10, 2016 14:34:15 GMT -5
The thing I liked about Valorisk, as a player, as opposed to the character, I hated that bastard character (but my limited experience considering him as a player didn't leave much room for OOC hate), but my limited experience was, he'd let you know he was out to get you, and give you enough time to run. Further, he wasn't just curb stomping every commoner PC he could find, he was going after the big fish, Merchant house family members and rival noble houses. There could be a lot I missed because being anywhere near this guy was pain on a stick, I only got to see it from the perspective of a merchant house family member. It's entirely possible his diet consisted of commoners to a staggering degreee.My personal experience was he would go after the powerful and trounce them, but it's possible he did this to everyone.
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Post by sirra on Apr 10, 2016 21:01:10 GMT -5
I preferred the game back when they didn't show us skill levels. In any case, I was much more dominant. Nowadays everyone has a fairly accurate view of how decent they are. But way back when, you'd have lots of militia, Bynners and mudsexers that never did more than spar, thinking they were hot shit with skills that were in actuality, low to mid journeyman.
What showing skill levels did was make a much greater divide, however. Now there's a knot of people that try very hard to get their fighting skills up to master, and know they have to keep working at it when they would've otherwise stopped. And then those at the other end of the spectrum who are so put off by how much time and effort is involved, just go play something else.
There's much fewer active warriors who spend their whole careers at mid-journeyman.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 3:47:36 GMT -5
Okay so... I'm halfway through the thread, it blew up and surprised me while I wasn't keeping track of anything going on here.
I'm gonna stand up on my rickety little soapbox now in defense of Timotheo though. My experience RPing with Timotheo on and off spans to the beginning of his character, and with Fale itself goes back to a few months after I started playing this damned game.
I know people are awful quick to point up at where they think power lays when they get their dick knocked in the dirt, but as often as not, it's not true. I'm with RRR - Timotheo is fucking awesome, and much like Raleris dealing with RL years of being blocked from goals at every turn and still trying to drum up fun shit that's IC and does something for the players, the man's player has the patience of a goddamn saint.
The rest of the characters in question, I have had little to no interaction with, but the type of Fale player who is going to hire an assassin to poison/backstab you for no reason is a hell of a lot closer to Torien Fale, back in 2009. And even then - there was a fucking reason for it.
Say what you will about a lot of shit, but don't be a whiny little bitch and try and badmouth someone because in grasping at straws you can't come up with the right one.
Just like what happened to Kitt Borsail wasn't what most people seemed to come away thinking, I'm 99.99999% sure that it's the same in this case.
Now back to your random shade and bitching.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Jun 4, 2016 1:03:59 GMT -5
Last word... (because I can)
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Oct 3, 2017 0:04:47 GMT -5
It feels like a game that has no staff. Paradoxically, it must have more staff than any other mud in existence; I can't imagine any mud has more than sixteen fucking imms. Yet Armageddon's staff does so little, has so weak a grasp on the game, and simultaneously plays such a stifling role. The southlands staff i particular is just useless and harmful to the game, demanding that players constantly document their intentions and notify staff of any significant action they wish to take without getting any sort of support or storytelling in return. True to life. This is exactly how Arm is, back in 2016, and today. Staff do absolutely nothing to add life/flavor to the game. They play their own chars/observe/talk on Discord/AIM, and then arbitrarily enforce the 'virtual world' when they see something they don't like.
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