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Post by glacierflux on Nov 3, 2015 9:56:48 GMT -5
Play the game by all means i'm sure it'll be better now despite the sad turd of eurynomos floating to the top. but i would bet you 10 bucks and a bag of hash joffnyr isn't leaving because any of you cried about him, and if he ever wants to return to the game in a producer status they will welcome him with open arms and a fruit basket
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118 
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Post by king on Nov 3, 2015 10:06:32 GMT -5
Could I exchange the hash for cookies? I like to keep my mental faculties sharp.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Nov 3, 2015 10:13:09 GMT -5
I've had only a couple tussles with the man personally. And the word choices he decided upon was enough for me to save it and keep tucked away for a rainy day when I might care to out myself. And even if I did not have those short experiences, and even if you did not have access to his words exposed on here by other players (including threats to ban spouses), his general tone on the gdb is enough for me to have a bitter taste in my mouth at the mere sight of his name on the screen. Even for people who say they've never had any issues with him, you cannot look me in the face and honestly tell me that he has a history of posting consistently like a decent, genuine guy, when the opposite is to clearly the truth. He's so disliked that he's become the scapegoat of the game. The next veteran outs himself? It's nyr's fault. The game just dropped in numbers? It's nyr's fault. There are no plots happening in game at all? It's nyr's fault. And the funny thing is, none of those things might even be nyr's fault at all. But it doesn't matter....they might as well be his fault. He earned his reputation and the scapegoating which accompanies it. He can rail against the opinions of the overwhelming majority or he can be upset for a while, stew and simmer with these thoughts, and then emerge some day down the road, armed with the knowledge and capacity to do something about it. (Or he can just stay gone, which will also suit the larger half of the playerbase.) No, I don't really think we'll see a great deal of change in a (temporarily) nyrless world....but I'll exercise a little hopefulness for a while just the same. Provided nessalin continues to plug away with his coding and otherwise keeps his dirty trap shut, and provided eurynomos does not ascend the throne (since he'd be little more than a nyrsallin junior) there might just be a fool's hope for the game after all.
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Post by glacierflux on Nov 3, 2015 10:18:05 GMT -5
our greatest hope at this point is that nyr's "pesky real life" is so time consuming and lifestyle altering and fulfilling that he never wants to come back to the game again. doubt it though, the guy has taken breaks before and been back pretty fast
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 10:24:48 GMT -5
Well guys, we got what we wanted.
I'm not as excited about Nyr stepping down as I am about Rathustra stepping up.
I have dealt A LOT with Rathustra on some projects and I can tell you he has told me NO for pretty much every single thing I have ever asked him for...and you know what...I still think he's one of the best staffers the game has.
It's not about telling someone NO. It's not about disappointing them IC with your animations. It's about how you speak to them as human beings....and we finally have someone as a Producer who knows how to do that publicly.
(Not bashing Adhira. As I've stated, I'm sure she's great and a good person, I just don't know I've ever dealt with her personally or really seen her present herself enough as a public presence to make up for the other two and their very public presence.)
I implore all of you to come back to the game. You voted with your feet and spent years here literally saying if this man would go away you would come back. Well, that time has come.
One thing I will request (if you allow it) is that you DO NOT go to the GDB gloating about this.
You got your victory. Everyone knows you got your victory. Everyone knows they finally realized you were right all along.
YOU WON.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
You were victorious.
Please take your victory with humility and be the example of how to act. We have a very positive foundation to work from here so let's move forward with some positivity and finally try and heal our environment.
I was only here a single week. Some of you were here for a very long time. I want to thank all of you for making that sacrifice. I was prepared to be here for a very long time but I was one of the lucky ones who didn't have to be.
Let's get back in the game and get back to making Armageddon what it used to be!!!
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Nov 3, 2015 10:26:36 GMT -5
Play the game by all means i'm sure it'll be better now despite the sad turd of eurynomos floating to the top. but i would bet you 10 bucks and a bag of hash joffnyr isn't leaving because any of you cried about him, and if he ever wants to return to the game in a producer status they will welcome him with open arms and a fruit basket There is every chance you are 100% correct, sir. But despite all their failings, current imms are now beyond just 'painfully aware' at the present state of the game. The game is bleeding fast! Imagine what kind of conversations took place behind closed doors to decide to close tuluk. Definitely more than just a 'hmm, what do ya think?' I won't glorify this board and say it's more than what it really is but I also refuse to accept that there isn't some level of cross over from what's said here to what's said on the gdb (and then privately on mount olympus). No, he wasn't sent home on some kind of forced vacation, crying. But I reiterate, the timing of it came at the most pivotal moment possible. Losing desertman was probably seen as the last heavy blow since he's more or less part of the gdb crowd (and even after joining the dark side seems to retain a certain sense of gdbness about him). I'm just saying....hope and possibility glimmer very very faintly now on the horizon, where yesterday there was only complete darkness. |
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Nov 3, 2015 10:32:25 GMT -5
I have dealt A LOT with Rathustra on some projects and I can tell you he has told me NO for pretty much every single thing I have ever asked him for...and you know what...I still think he's one of the best staffers the game has. I agree with everything else you said except this. This is the sort of gdb apathy which I always find so appalling. The acceptance. If you've been told no on literally (almost 99%) of everything you're asking for, you're either asking for unbelievably unrealistic things like a chance to become tektolnes, or to create a tolkien style ring of power (and I don't think that's what you're doing), or staff need to lower the bar a little and learn how to create a teeny tiny dose more fun. I mean I see where you're going with it but for me just a polite no is not enough. How about a reasonable explanation for saying no in the first place? How about an end to the apathy and supporting this kind of flawed logic just because you love the game? For me that's part of the crime that has led to Arm's current descent: the players who support and enable the game's biggest problems in the first place. |
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 10:38:13 GMT -5
I have dealt A LOT with Rathustra on some projects and I can tell you he has told me NO for pretty much every single thing I have ever asked him for...and you know what...I still think he's one of the best staffers the game has. I agree with everything else you said except this. This is the sort of gdb apathy which I always find so appalling. The acceptance. If you've been told no on literally (almost 99%) of everything you're asking for, you're either asking for unbelievably unrealistic things like a chance to become tektolnes, or to create a tolkien style ring of power (and I don't think that's what you're doing), or staff need to lower the bar a little and learn how to create a teeny tiny dose more fun. I mean I see where you're going with it but for me just a polite no is not enough. How about a reasonable explanation for saying no in the first place? How about an end to the apathy and supporting this kind of flawed logic just because you love the game? For me that's part of the crime that has led to Arm's current descent: the players who support and enable the game's biggest problems in the first place. I got very reasonable explanations for being told no every time. Every time I was asking for things I knew I would probably get told no for. I have no blinders on about the situations. I think for most I even said, "Look, I know this is a bit out there, but I'm asking because I won't know unless I ask.".
I only ever send in requests when I've reached the point that what I'm about to do or about to request is....questionable to say the least heh. I'm either about to seriously change my PC in some way that is fundamentally possibly breaking, or I'm about to really affect a whole lot of folks and I need some behind the scenes advice.
I'm not the guy who sends in a request to get a door added.
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 11:04:18 GMT -5
It's not a victory, it's not even really going to change anything. If you put a new paintjob on an outhouse, it's still going to smell like shit once you get inside. There are symptoms to every disease, but they are only symptoms. Nyr was a symptom, but there was plenty going on for years, piled up to make the situation what it is today. Until the remaining producers come forward and make an actual statement of taking some of the blame for letting things go to hell, Nyr is simply taking a break for the holidays or something equally insipid. It's not "The Players Have SPOKEN!" that's bullshit. It's simply one cause going backburner, but still being present. He just won't be saber rattling on the GDB and shitting down people's throats in the request tool. Big fucking deal. It's not about getting everything you want immediately right now because I need it now...now now now now now.
That is never going to happen. If you think that is going to happen or if those are your terms for returning, then you will never return. You will never get that because that's an unreasonable expectation. Is it unfair? Probably not. But it is unreasonable considering the reality of the situation you are working in.
It's about winning a battle, and stepping up to fortify that place on the battlefield before moving forward.
Yes, there will still be problems and things won't be perfect.
But you won a battle. I recommend stepping up and fortifying your position. Why? Because that's more productive than standing back in the same old spot declaring that because you didn't win the entire war it's not even worth fighting.
But, you might just be so scorned that your only end-goal is to complain, and if that makes you feel better, then complain. It isn't hurting anything. It's hurting absolutely nothing and if it you enjoy it then more power to you.
But, you have an option now to step in and say, "Good move guys. It's not perfect, but, I support you doing the right thing in this one instance.".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 11:09:44 GMT -5
I wonder if he'll be back after the heat dies down. I wonder if plots will be chasing the players rather than the other way around. Time will tell.
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 11:17:02 GMT -5
It's not about getting everything you want immediately right now because I need it now...now now now now now.
That is never going to happen. If you think that is going to happen or if those are your terms for returning, then you will never return. You will never get that because that's an unreasonable expectation. Is it unfair? Probably not. But it is unreasonable considering the reality of the situation you are working in.
It's about winning a battle, and stepping up to fortify that place on the battlefield before moving forward.
Yes, there will still be problems and things won't be perfect.
But you won a battle. I recommend stepping up and fortifying your position. Why? Because that's more productive than standing back in the same old spot declaring that because you didn't win the entire war it's not even worth fighting.
But, you might just be so scorned that your only end-goal is to complain, and if that makes you feel better, then complain. It isn't hurting anything. It's hurting absolutely nothing and if it you enjoy it then more power to you.
But, you have an option now to step in and say, "Good move guys. It's not perfect, but, I support you doing the right thing in this one instance.".
Until it is acknowledged that Nyrbot is actually human and stepped down to reflect on all of this flack, or that staff asked him to take a break because of the flack, it's simply something that has happened, not something that was caused. Therefore it's incidental and not a victory. You will never get that.
You will not get that because it would mean Nyr as a person would have to present himself publicly and grovel and self-shame himself. Not only is that not going to happen, but I don't want to see that happen.
I have no interest personally in seeing some circus sideshow of humiliation so a few people can get off on watching someone squirm. I don't feel it's necessary or even healthy for the environment.
To anyone who isn't scorned beyond reasonable reconciliation the atmosphere over the last couple of weeks is the obvious reason the man has stepped away. Even if someone didn't tell him, "Hey, you are a douchebag and don't know how to deal with people so it's time to take a hike.", he made the personal decision to not be part of the process.
Even if he wasn't "officially ousted because of public opinion". He either WAS ousted because of public opinion, or he finally got burnt out with people hating him. Either way...you won.
You won't get to stone him in the town square, but you still won.
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 12:01:34 GMT -5
Dropping this here so it doesn't get lost in the Shoutbox.
If you do plan coming back now, or even if this change has you considering coming back seriously, I highly recommend you drop over to the GDB and post a humble post saying you are coming back.
Why?
Because you can very publicly make a simple statement to everyone that changes like this matter and it does get players back when people start listening.
I do respectfully request that you keep your "coming back post" civil and amiable. Be the change you want to see and voice the fact that they are doing the right things for the health of the game and you agree with that direction.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Nov 3, 2015 12:08:13 GMT -5
It's important to realize that your enemies, too, are human beings who expect and deserve to maintain a certain level of self-respect, and shouldn't have to make their actions out publicly into some kind of grovelling nonsense, even Nyr. I know this is the internets, and the timing is rather auspicious, but please, no gloating, not only is it poor sportsmanship, it'll also make you look like a fucking retard if proven wrong.
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Post by gloryhound on Nov 3, 2015 12:37:42 GMT -5
I think people are making too big a deal of this. Wait and see is my recommendation.
Anyhow, in terms of requests for things, here's one I thought might be reasonable in Luir's, once upon a day, to liven the place up for the hapless Recruits of the Fist. Basically, to create a room with a couple of (orthogonal) exits to the outpost and hidden tiny entrances (too small for anyone to get in). Spawn a couple of rats or small spiders in them which could creep out and (occasionally) be seen. Then the officers could set the Recruits to clearing the outpost of the pests and eventually burning out the nest once an entrance was found. (This was long before rats started to appear in Allanak). Simple to do, but no, the reply was more or less, "thanks, but it seems unlikely". That was it. This is representative of my experience in asking for small things.
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 12:51:10 GMT -5
I think people are making too big a deal of this. Wait and see is my recommendation. In my experience what happens when you do nothing, is nothing.
We might be making too big a deal out of this. But, we have the power to make this a big deal.
If we do nothing, it WILL be "not a big deal". If we do something, we CAN make this into, "Nyr left and it saved the damn game!!!".
We have the power to do that. We have the power to make this about THAT even if it wasn't supposed to be.
YOU have the power right now to very publicly and without contestation make it glaringly obvious that, "Nyr left the game and the move in that right direction did awesome things for the game.".
Could there be a bigger "Get the fuck out.", than that? That's huge.
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