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Post by Tektrollnes on Sept 23, 2015 1:41:44 GMT -5
The current staff spend more time policing the general discussion board than acting as dungeon masters. Its one thing to delete a few posts and have a private discussion and its another thing to ban a clan leader for voicing his opinion when he was clearly passionate about it.
We get very little help with in game issues, very few animations, but we get an endless dialog of parental authority figures hell bent on spanking us. Why? I don't understand why they wouldn't want to just make the game a fun place. Its fun being a dm...Not for them I guess.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2015 7:34:48 GMT -5
Just the fact that they forcibly store characters for unrelated disagreements between player and staff, on a relatively regular basis, is gross misuse of power and absolutely inexcusable. They're using the confiscation of people's characters as a way to punish players for ideological differences.
Of the numerous examples I've seen of players having their characters force-stored, not a single one was the result of abusive play that had to be stopped by removing the character. All of them essentially boiled down to staff (usually Nyr) hating the player for petty, unreasonable reasons and robbing players of their character just to put them in their place. Not one case had the slightest pretense of necessity.
It's an unapologetically tyrannical style of administration. I've played most of the RPIs at one point or another. This shit only happens on Armageddon.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Sept 23, 2015 13:12:38 GMT -5
Yes, the staff are not going to have sex with the players. weeeeellll.... tahy mite send dik pikz howevur. |
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bastilleangel
Clueless newb
Wielding the Power of Love and Investigation Since 2013
Posts: 119 
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Post by bastilleangel on Sept 24, 2015 0:43:23 GMT -5
Just the fact that they forcibly store characters for unrelated disagreements between player and staff, on a relatively regular basis, is gross misuse of power and absolutely inexcusable. They're using the confiscation of people's characters as a way to punish players for ideological differences. Of the numerous examples I've seen of players having their characters force-stored, not a single one was the result of abusive play that had to be stopped by removing the character. All of them essentially boiled down to staff (usually Nyr) hating the player for petty, unreasonable reasons and robbing players of their character just to put them in their place. Not one case had the slightest pretense of necessity. It's an unapologetically tyrannical style of administration. I've played most of the RPIs at one point or another. This shit only happens on Armageddon. I can't improve on this. I'll just second that in a decade of playing, I never saw a character force-stored for anything other than OOC animus. And at this point, you'd have to give me a compelling reason as to why any IC issues couldn't be resolved/played through IC. A sterling example of this was when my nephew was first playing Arm., and twinking shamelessly with elven NPCs in a tent. Halaster (we later learned via an email from him, I believe) animated one of said sharp-ears and chased his character all over Drov and Creation before finally killing him. And you know what? I actually defended what happened to my irate (okay, maybe just irritated) teen nephew, who in retrospect laughs at the whole episode. So, can anyone cook up a scenario wherein force-storage is the optimal path, rather than animating the game world and letting consequences run organically? Confirmed cheating? OOC violence? What am I missing? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 12:30:35 GMT -5
The only time forced storages seem to come close to the point of necessary is when a character is grievously going against their docs.
Having said that, I've always thought certain instances, like tuluki nobles being force stored automagickally for sleeping with commoners, are kinda ridiculous. Umm it's Armageddon... Fucking kill them. Like, in the game.
Of course, staff will retort with predictable shit like "but their docs are clear that this actually wouldn't have happened." When you start trying to make docs for behavior, well, that just seems kinda tricky/foolhardy to me... Because we are human beings.
We can also look at the case of Clegane's gypsy who foiled Muarki attempts at taking over Nak. Clegane was nailed to the wall for this because, according to Sanvean's interpretation of docs, a gypsy would never betray his/her tribe... So, he was blacklisted for this. Not sure if the character was force stored but it got him barred from all sorts of roles for a long time.
At the end of the day, those are arguable points when it comes to force storing. In no circumstances should an OOC argument or disagreement or quarrel or any of that shit be cause for a character to be removed from the game, but this seems to be a trend.
In no circumstances should OOC factors have any impact on characters, but unfortunately, I believe it has been plainly established that OOC feels/biases/prejudices/beef DO bleed over into the game world.
If someone staff side does not like a player, that player is far more likely to be force-stored/made to wait/fucked over on something petty like a master craft item/spoken condescendingly to/all that shit.... Yeah, we are all human and naturally some humans come to not like other humans, but as an administrator of a game, you should try to be fucking grown up enough to not let that bleed all through interactions with players.
Being a volunteer does not give you the right to act like a piece of shit to other humans or shit over what they're doing in the game because you don't like them... Or because you can.
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164
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Post by tedium on Sept 24, 2015 23:27:42 GMT -5
Umm it's Armageddon... Fucking kill them. Like, in the game. This cannot be restated enough. It's like Arm staff has no concept of ICA=ICC. How do RPI admins not understand ICA=ICC? The only reason you should ever force store is due to flagrant OOC violation, not because you want to shit on another player. Back on topic, Armageddon has a real problem retaining leadership. It's a thankless position where, in most RP-enforced games, the main reward is being able to act as a pseudo-DM who can and must drive RP for their organization. Armageddon puts barriers between the only reward leaders get, but keep in mind, this is also the primary obligation of leadership. Staff could drive RP for clans but they do not. Every time I think about Armageddon and their attitude toward clans, I remember that Raleris or Tenneshi (forget which) Noble who carried Tuluk for years. Even after an inhuman amount of dedication they only allowed him cosmetic changes to the game world, then threw all of it into the trash not long after he gave up. Or the somewhat recent Byn sergeant who went out of his way to keep his recruits alive, grew the Byn, and was effectively punished for it. And of course after the heavy-handed leader-management from staff, Byn numbers plummeted to the point where they couldn't scrape together enough numbers for basic contracts. |
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Post by Tektrollnes on Sept 25, 2015 1:36:52 GMT -5
A long time ago I was easily the most qualified to be the leader of a clan and was passed over by staff. I'm sort of glad now. I don't wat that bs...I will just make rangers ad mages ad stay away from clans. I just started playing again recently after the sailor moon incident I logged out and didn't log back in for a long time.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388 
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Post by jesantu on Sept 25, 2015 1:58:44 GMT -5
I will just make rangers ad mages ad stay away from clans. It's this sad state of arm affairs that makes me do the same, biding my time till maybe one day something interesting happens in clans. I've had a look at the latest batch of nobles merchants and templars and don't feel very enthused. What I can't help but wondering though is if they're boring characters because their players are boring people or their clan imms are. I had a look at a recent log of some sewers rpt involving an albino ankheg. I'd have been bored to tears if I was part of it. No one died. There was no element of danger or surprise. From where I stand it seems players understandably complain about not wanting to be arbitrarily killed for crap reasons and the only solution present day imms can come up with is to go the opposite end of the spectrum into complete boringness. For fucks sake I just want something interesting to happen again. The game desperately needs an adversary. They have this great opportunity with tuluk being npc now and instead it just sits there. Somebody pass the defibrillator, please. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 7:03:54 GMT -5
It's basically a bit of everything, but especially boring characters (and players). I can't comment on the current crop of sponsored PCs because I don't play, but the way Armageddon has been run in recent years has driven away many of the game's best players. Those are the ones who won't tolerate the kind of bullshit that goes on, and the ones who aren't satisfied with a hopelessly inert game. So, the best leave and the bad players stay, the ones to whom logging in and going through the motions is enough. If you have lots of the latter, there's little pressure on you to manage the game well.
It'll sound a little harsh, but most of today's playerbase consists of dull, uncreative people with rock-bottom standards. They're the ones who will argue that there's still things happening in the game and, when asked for examples, say stuff like "my unit went on patrol the other day" or "Kadius is starting an herbalism group." You'll get Guild leaders who think that collecting monthly token protection money from indifferent merchant houses qualifies as an active criminal environment. You have players who think that carbon copy festivals constitute meaningful events.
When you can maintain a playerbase that's satisfied with that sort of banal crap, it's just too easy. To every RPer, the first year of discovering RPIs is an exercise in amazed fascination just from having a place where everyone's in character and the rules enforce roleplay. Some players then move beyond that and start wanting things of actual value in the game; they leave Armageddon. Other players never really progress beyond the point of being satisfied with the basic features of the game, and when you've accumulated an entire playerbase worth of those, it's easy to claim that you're running a worthwhile game that your players are satisfied with. The ones who aren't have quit, but anyone can tell that the game has made no progress for years.
Looking back at this game's past, the current Armageddon is a pathetic shadow of that. I place the blame entirely on Nyr's generation of staff.
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ccp
staff puppet account
Posts: 32
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Post by ccp on Sept 25, 2015 8:26:47 GMT -5
I think calling the current active players "boring people" or uncreative is harsh. Well trained not to stick out or be original is more like it. Trained to be bland with just the right amount of predictable eventfulness in order to farm karma points. the RP of leaders is predictably stiff and regimented. Well practiced in being an unthinking puppet to staff guidance.
On second thought you're right
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Post by Tektrollnes on Sept 25, 2015 9:50:11 GMT -5
Tuluk is the new Conclave, forever locked until some newb accidentally picks the lock and then they will just disappear it a few months later.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341
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Post by my2sids on Sept 25, 2015 10:04:00 GMT -5
Back in my day we used to roleplay Shakespeare uphill in a blizzard both ways. Kids nowadays can't even roleplay generic backgrounds!!
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 25, 2015 10:47:57 GMT -5
I don't think the game is dead. True that there's a lot of stagnation, but vivid characters make their own fun. The issue is top-down: you got folks at the top ruining aspirations of hopeful characters, and then you got storytellers and the like forcing plots that just are inconsequential or uninspired.
Yeah it's definitely boring for dwarf warrior #1001 and that player must have a focus IRL to play Arm if he's still grinding away. There are some clans that are a joke and you should stay away from, like the AoD. But the indie scene is enough of a "game" that you can at least derive some enjoyment from the simple progression. It's just so shallow from what it could be with decent direction that it leaves us all wanting.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 10:54:48 GMT -5
The only time forced storages seem to come close to the point of necessary is when a character is grievously going against their docs. Having said that, I've always thought certain instances, like tuluki nobles being force stored automagickally for sleeping with commoners, are kinda ridiculous. Umm it's Armageddon... Fucking kill them. Like, in the game. Of course, staff will retort with predictable shit like "but their docs are clear that this actually wouldn't have happened." When you start trying to make docs for behavior, well, that just seems kinda tricky/foolhardy to me... Because we are human beings. We can also look at the case of Clegane's gypsy who foiled Muarki attempts at taking over Nak. Clegane was nailed to the wall for this because, according to Sanvean's interpretation of docs, a gypsy would never betray his/her tribe... So, he was blacklisted for this. Not sure if the character was force stored but it got him barred from all sorts of roles for a long time. At the end of the day, those are arguable points when it comes to force storing. In no circumstances should an OOC argument or disagreement or quarrel or any of that shit be cause for a character to be removed from the game, but this seems to be a trend. In no circumstances should OOC factors have any impact on characters, but unfortunately, I believe it has been plainly established that OOC feels/biases/prejudices/beef DO bleed over into the game world. If someone staff side does not like a player, that player is far more likely to be force-stored/made to wait/fucked over on something petty like a master craft item/spoken condescendingly to/all that shit.... Yeah, we are all human and naturally some humans come to not like other humans, but as an administrator of a game, you should try to be fucking grown up enough to not let that bleed all through interactions with players. Being a volunteer does not give you the right to act like a piece of shit to other humans or shit over what they're doing in the game because you don't like them... Or because you can. I suspect staff resort to storing rather than making the game react realistically because the staff are disgusted to the degree they simply lack the motivation, inspiration, and desire to role-play the situation appropriately. Like when someone attacks you and suddenly you're in a life or death PVP situation, adrenaline runs high and there isn't time to think so bad choices might get made. I think staff are somewhat in the same boat except it's not a life or death situation, they do have time but they forget and act rashly. Staff members in the past have had a personal policy of non-reward for those who's role-play they disagreed with. Maybe they were twinks, or breaking rules, or they just didn't like them. Staff simply wouldn't interact with them. I disagree with this approach in most cases because players will continue to do what they're doing unless they have a reason to change. Of course some players will love the attention and continue doing what their doing, or even increase the undesired play style to continue to get attention, but some players will emulate the staff and improve. By showing players what to do and how to play rather than simply telling them, they teach and inspire players. That's how to teach players, and that's how it's always been done in this game. |
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 25, 2015 11:00:54 GMT -5
So what you're saying is they lack the motivation to do the thing they volunteered to do? Why don't they step down, then, instead of making the integrity of the game world suffer by hamming their decisions in?
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