king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Nov 5, 2015 0:35:01 GMT -5
the new templar feels like a really old veteran (talented writer, if anything), and the sergeant seems to be doing a good job. all of the clans seem to be in a better spot at the moment - byn, kurac, atrium, arm, fale, borsail, oash, kadius (not sure about salarr).
but i've been playing some grebber-like characters lately, so... anyone have any thoughts on this crop of leader pcs?
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dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
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Post by dcdc on Nov 5, 2015 14:56:23 GMT -5
Salarr will always be the same.
"Another 200 orders for gear."
"Fuuuuuuuuu....." - Merchants and Hunters in the clan.
When I played the Salarr I can count on very few hands how much rp I could do compared to constantly and I mean constantly grebbing and gathering, while the crafters spammed up skills to try and fulfill orders.
Never again.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 16:44:29 GMT -5
Whew. Glad that's settled. yeah go easy on the newb, delerak. he'll learn that it'll be right back to the same asshattery with the new rotation of staff, if it hasn't already. those new sergeants and templars will soon get the nonstop nonononononononononononononononononononono force-stored or lolstomp NPC justice they deserve for trying to make things interesting for other players.
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rotten
staff puppet account
Somewhere at the foot of the Shield Wall
Posts: 36
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Post by rotten on Nov 6, 2015 3:42:10 GMT -5
Arm used to be about the RP and the sandbox. But so much has been taken away, so that's no longer the case. Sorcs and Tuluk were only the latest, because before there were slave roles or the Glass Ceiling or Kuraci Outriders or Kadian Falcons or much more. I'm sure that there is plenty of fun still to be had on Arm. But what made it great and made it fun for me is gone. From looking at the numbers, I suspect many other people share my opinion, sadly. What's most sad, to me, is that it didn't need to be this way. I'm inclined to think the sandbox ended as so many features became automated, and now the staff spends its time limiting players who take advantage of that automation, like the replenishing NPC merchants. The fact is players should have things they can take advantage of. A good sandbox is just a pile of resources waiting to be used, and the game we're here for is the handful of base social interactions we call roleplay. If they really wanted to fix the economy a little, they would have NPCs ordering large amounts of a particular item so the whole playerbase can organize around them. Make the economy about raw resources or transporting/storing items. Hell, let's have Nenyuk offer a new service : a general store. A grebber comes into this Nenyuki General Store with something like eight agafari logs pilfered from the far north. The Nenyuki prices these logs and adds a fee on top for storing these logs. The Nenyuki then pays out for the logs and gives the grebber a ticket marked with the month of the year that he can come back and exchange for those eight logs for the original price plus the storage fee. Now this General Store isn't like your Walmart, it is general storage for the whole community. So people can then come in and buy the logs the grebber dropped off at whatever price the Nenyuki is charging based on scarcity. Also, the NPC merchants will regularly deplete the General Store to create a regular demand for certain goods. When players are scarce, these NPC merchants will create a constant, steady demand that allows players to easily make good coin. When business is booming, players will be forced to diversify as prices drop. Pretty neat if you can code the NPC merchants to demand refined goods as the the price of raw resources drop. Now the really interesting part is when the grebber tries to turn in his ticket. If the price of his logs have risen, he can trade in the ticket and recover the logs at the lesser original price plus storage fee, making a profit. That is unless the logs have become so scarce the General Store can't meet the order. If the prices of logs have fallen, the grebber got a good deal when he first dropped off the logs and should just junk the ticket. The ticket's worthless if you don't use it before a year is up, anyway. It's basically like a stock market (all true markets function this way). The grebber sells off stock in his labor plus an option to buy back later. That would be pretty damn good. Then we can spend all day hating elves, spitting on elementalists, and fighting in bars because the real work is in playing the market. People will kill industrious gatherers because they drive down the prices of goods. So the lazy rule, and the hard working people have to keep doing random things to prevent being squashed. There's your murder, corruption, and betrayal.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2015 23:45:38 GMT -5
I guess it's possible to code it, but it'll definitely work differently then any kind of ticket system that's set up right now. Tickets will need to have some kind of a value assigned to them? Why not just use the coins? Why would the grebber "ever" buy back those logs? Like in reality. If you're a grebber, your cost for the logs is 'zero' plus time and danger incurred, not coins.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Nov 8, 2015 0:20:42 GMT -5
Let me point a few things that are really dumb about Arms "economy"
- Every PC is free. Slavery exists. Free ppl sell obsidian for a fortune to the city that has slaves working in the obsidian mines...
- Merchants will buy 6 obsidian daggers but not 7. Put a green stone in the hilt of said dagger and he'll buy 6 of those too! Or screw it just carve a design on the dagger and he'll buy 6 of those!
- Got a random bone flake you found? Yeah I'll give 2000 coins for that...
- It's been a hundred years. Oh look the price of every single item ever created is exactly the same. Inflation what's that?
At the end of the day what MOST RPI muds (or muds in general) lack is realism for an economy. People want to just code in some stuff and think it makes an economy but it doesn't.
Supply/Demand is the most basic thing you can code in. Not only that you can actively run the economy. Honestly if I had a big enough game I'd have 1-2 staffers that just do economy related roleplay stuff. There's a shortage of wood coming in from the forests? Well we better change all the prices for every wood item in the city. Oh the sorcerer-king is building a pyramid out of sandstone? All of a sudden every merchant in the city will buy sandstone, but only for a time until this project is complete.
Arm has never thought that to do stuff like that though. Think about how cool it would be to have a staffer overseeing IC construction projects, the amount of RP opportunities there are staggering. Instead of loading the generic unit of slaves working tirelessly in the sun you could actually have mini-RPTs surrounding the construction job. Get the PCs involved in it. Have them go gather the shit for it and turn it into whoever is buying for a bulk price. Once the job is over? That resource becomes less necessary.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Nov 8, 2015 0:22:56 GMT -5
My idea probably isn't even unique. I'm sure somewhere in the massive cesspool of the GDB someone smarter than me about economics has posted about it.
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Post by gloryhound on Nov 8, 2015 0:40:38 GMT -5
Let me point a few things that are really dumb about Arms "economy" - Got a random bone flake you found? Yeah I'll give 2000 coins for that... This one was "fixed" by setting the merchants involved to have no coins. Sure, it's still possible to sell your bone flake, but only if you, for example, buy fifty bars of soap first.
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rotten
staff puppet account
Somewhere at the foot of the Shield Wall
Posts: 36
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Post by rotten on Nov 8, 2015 3:54:08 GMT -5
I guess it's possible to code it, but it'll definitely work differently then any kind of ticket system that's set up right now. Tickets will need to have some kind of a value assigned to them? Why not just use the coins? Why would the grebber "ever" buy back those logs? Like in reality. If you're a grebber, your cost for the logs is 'zero' plus time and danger incurred, not coins. They'd buy it back because it's storage. It's not just a place to sell your goods, it's a place to store them. The coin is just a friendly way of keeping the records straight. PCs could use the storage to prepare a caravan to some far off locale. It's a system that can contribute to many purposes. Also, there is an incurred cost for gathering the logs, otherwise they wouldn't have value. Markets exist for the purpose of storing/transporting goods, and the basis of all prices are the cost of transportation and storage. In addition to this, I'd revamp all other merchants and limit them to buying only a small handful of finished goods, like your typical shop owner would. This would collapse most selling into this one general store, but that's not a terrible thing, as Joe the furniture maker can complain to Shmoe the lumberjack about prices for lumber. And then cut out the middle man. You might look to logic and say there's nothing in it for Nenyuk, but it's also not strictly logical for Nenyuk to give you coins after you deposit them in the bank. Some degree of irrationality is present in all systems as all facts are irrational. The logical conclusions you can draw from the basic premises of this system are pretty good compared to just about every other game economy I have ever seen. Also, I need to figure out the math on this system. A bell curve seems to be a much better function to calculate the prices, but it's going to take me a while to manipulate them easily.
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