Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jul 8, 2015 1:07:26 GMT -5
Despite me saying I would be done with this thread. Armageddon is not the oldest RPI. Harshlands is followed by Shadows of Isildur with Armageddon only slightly younger than SOI.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 1:12:28 GMT -5
What? You're way off. Armageddon is over twenty years old, although its early years were a bit murky (the same is true of Harshlands and most other pre-modern MU*s). ArmageddonMUD was founded in 1991, it predates Harshlands by a number of years and Shadows of Isildur by over a decade.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jul 8, 2015 1:21:25 GMT -5
Right... Existing first doesn't mean it was an RPI prior to Harshlands or SOI doing it. The RPI title was started by Harshlands and continued by SOI which split off with a copy of the codebase which it modified. Armageddon was "late" to the RPI party.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 1:25:54 GMT -5
That's ridiculous. You can't date a game based on when some arbitrary acronym was invented to describe it. The games did not come into existence when somebody thought of calling them RPIs. That tag was invented because there was now more than one game fitting the description, with Armageddon being the first. I can't believe this is something that needs to be explained to you, the owner of an RPI discussion site. Harshlands is the only one that even comes close to matching Armageddon's age, Arm had been a full-fledged RPI (whether or not the term was coined by then) for many years by the time SoI was founded.
Arm was a hack'n'slash MUD in the very beginning only, not for years and years. Harshlands was also pretty flimsy in its infancy.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jul 8, 2015 1:31:16 GMT -5
As it happens we've discussed this which is why I put the information out there! But if you have a different timeline start up a thread and we'll see where my error is.
Technically only like a 3rd of the games listed on Optional Realities are RPIs, we're a text-based RPG discussion site >.> small difference but I am not the RPI super expert I just have a timeline we put together behind the scenes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 1:34:30 GMT -5
What do you mean, different timeline? We're not talking archaeology here. We're not carbon-dating the games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 1:37:53 GMT -5
FYI: gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?topic=17820.0;wap2Staples of the RPI genre such as application process, permadeath, skill system etc. were in place in 1992. It took a little while for serious roleplaying to catch on, the game was kind of hack'n'slash at first. By 1993/4, the game's fundamental model was in place and was the inspiration for Harshlands, and then Harshland's model was used to create Shadows of Isildur many years later.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Jul 8, 2015 1:39:23 GMT -5
It's a moot point either way as to what came first.
Armageddon has been a long-standing pillar in the RPI community for around two decades.
They should have higher standards for staff emotes, at the very least.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jul 8, 2015 1:42:50 GMT -5
This is true. Also technically SOI was closed for a long time which is when Armageddon saw a big number spike.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Jul 8, 2015 3:37:34 GMT -5
Nah, man, he's pissed about staff falling back on the bullshit excuse a lot of players do for bad role playing. The thing where they drop emotes before immediately dropping a command (possibly all in one macro), leaving you zero time to react to something that should take a lot longer IC than "instantly". ^--- ... that's the kind of thing he's complaining about. Where you might be able to avoid the thing if given time to react to something that should take time in the first place, but can't because some shithead spammed at you and slipped in "logical" sounding emotes that misrepresent the passage of time it took to execute everything in the log. again he targeted npc halfgiants (not a specific animated one) as a problem that should be resolved. second, macros allow a lot of shit to stack and unless u change the entire coded dynamic of pve/pvp combat then wont a damn thing make a difference and ur damn righ theyre doing that and for a good ass reason. any pker whether lawbacked or lawless is going to cover their ass by stacking an emote or two with their attack syntax so that they can maximize their ability to accomplish their goal w/o getting pegged as a non-rp robot by staff (btw thinks and feels can cover this too). if staff are trying to codedly get shit done im not angry at them for doing the same shit players do (speed up their expo) while getting shit done
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tedium
Clueless newb
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Post by tedium on Jul 8, 2015 5:51:02 GMT -5
If death in Arm wasn't so punishing to players this wouldn't be an issue. Sure, I get it. They do not want to change the grind, adjust their policies on twinking, remove mandatory clan probation, alter mastercraft guidelines (no matter how arbitrary they are), decrease the importance of stats to certain roles, or modify any of these new-character timesinks. Resurrections are out of the question for whatever policy reasons.
Fine.
But when the circumstances of a player's death are caused by imm ignorance of code, at the very least they should get some sort of OOC voucher. Free stat boost, one karma higher on next spec app, custom item on the next character, one unorthodox role (eg clanless delf), etc. Something to reduce the pain of staff blunders. I think it should extend to characters who spent significant time in needed clan roles, leadership roles, or those who die during imm events too. Yes, OP wasn't the one who died, but he's filling a role that is chronically understaffed and imm involvement in that role is pulling him out of character. That's a valid complaint even if he went about it wrong, and sensible staff would try to reach an agreement that benefits all sides.
It's basic business retention. One of your customers is unhappy? Placate them by giving them incentive to come back that serves the greater need of your business. By telling an unhappy player to fuck off, in so many words, you drive dedicated players away and generate bad press about your brand. In this case they turned a newish player in a leadership role for an underpopulated clan into an enemy. This board doesn't exist because there's a conspiracy against Nyr, it's because he has less leadership sense than a 17 year old assistant manager at a fast food joint.
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Post by lyse on Jul 8, 2015 6:17:10 GMT -5
I don't know what Jeshin's smoking but, I want some. Armageddon was definitely the first RPI and it was kinda a big deal. I came along around 1995-1996 and learned about it through isca bbs, which was also kind of a big deal and Arm had been established a few years before that. I had to apply for my first character, which was unheard of, but it was highly recommended from friends on isca and my college's role playing group. It was a mud where you could role play, also unheard of, because every other mud was hack and slash.
Now my timeline might get a little hazy from here, because collegeweedmudgeekgirl heaven, but I'm sure in general it's right. Around 1998 Armageddon got hacked and was down for at least six months. Harsh lands opened up and most of the players from arm went over to play Harshlands and Harshlands was very barebones. Armageddon was light years ahead code wise. For a little while the imms from arm opened up an older version for us to play on and it was vastly different from the then current Armageddon, it made you respect how much work went into modifying the code. At the same time it makes you laugh at how little it's improved since 1998, and actually it ran better back then.
Anyway, there were other RPIs even before harshlands:, Mirtos, Jade Cross, Hatijar, but they didn't last. That's because Arm was the shit, none of them had a player base like Armageddon. During peak, sometimes you had to wait in a queue just to play.
That's enough of a history lesson. It definitely was the first of its kind and its success hasn't been duplicated. It's just sad to see what happened to it. It hasn't really improved in all these years and I wouldn't even call the culture of the mud role play intensive anymore. It definitely set the tone though.
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Jeshin
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Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Jul 8, 2015 7:37:55 GMT -5
Hrm, I shall have to go beat someone regarding dates on my end. Thanks this will aid in one of the articles we were putting together and save us from doing what I just did up there and putting my foot in my mouth.
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Post by topkekm8s on Jul 8, 2015 12:40:19 GMT -5
Yeah jeshin shut the fuck up you bitch
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Post by jcarter on Jul 8, 2015 12:44:20 GMT -5
it's pretty funny that the coding of a 13 year old is taken as the Holy Bible of Armageddon MUD and has been the backbone of the game for 25 years now.
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