Asan
staff puppet account
Posts: 30
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Post by Asan on Jun 29, 2015 22:08:36 GMT -5
You're going with the good faith that they were acting reasonable, which is something I doubted then and still doubt now. I mean, it's nice to give someone the benefit of the doubt. I don't think with Nyr's history that he's really earned it from me.
There's no way to tell for certain unless either of the duo leak the conversations they had about me, which isn't going to happen.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 22:22:25 GMT -5
What most players want is to progress their character, usually in terms of skills and resources. Any social or status-related progress is rare these days as that side of the game has become so shallow due to the stagnation of its roleplaying environment, but there are many players who are content to simply enjoy the growth of their character's power. It's the exact same reason people will grind in an MMORPG or play Diablo for weeks on end. There's a great many players to whom actual roleplaying is an afterthought, players who act vaguely IC only because they have to.
That's Armageddon's strong suit: the ability to play it as a text-based survival MMORPG with an extensive history and elaborate setting. It's instrumental to the high player count; I would estimate that at the very least 30-40% of players are only there because of the combination of RPG-like codeplay and the permadeath that make your actions matter to other players. The other RPIs didn't really have this; even SoI at its peak, where it most resembled Armageddon, lacked the ability for people to venture out alone and just play the game like a text-based Skyrim.
It all boils down to a fundamental desire to a) become unfuckwithable so you don't have to let other players embarrass you with their superior power, and b) become able to exert your coded power over others in order to defeat them. That doesn't necessarily mean killing them, but as more and more alternatives to that are siphoned out of the game due to the all-encompassing stagnation and stifling bureaucracy, that does end up becoming the usual result.
The great tragedy, of course, is that joining a clan is often a huge osbtacle to your character's progress as training becomes much more difficult to access and equipment upgrades likewise grow scarce, with the best ones (e.g. enchanted rings, magic weapons) usually ruled out entirely. This, together with a total lack of purpose and support, is what leaves clans like the Tor Scorpions and Borsail Wyverns completely dead, and even mainstays like the militia rarely populated enough to feel functional and healthy.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jun 29, 2015 23:22:56 GMT -5
The "lateral promotions" nyr infected the legions with was a disaster. don't play anymore but i played there for several months and it was hella confusing. There were three kinds of privates, plenty of options to "pension out" of the army instead of serve til you die etc...maybe if 100 players had been in that clan it would have been good. as it was it just didn't feel harsh and was embarrassing. glad the north is closed but really allanak's social and clan structure is very simple and easy to grasp for most people and complex plots can come from that simplicity. Complexity from the beginning just leads to ultra-stupidity as in the case with tuluk b/c 90% of people don't give a shit. Most players want to fetch rocks for nobles, serve drinks, punch an elf, raise skills, maybe do a sewer rpt once a year. all these small bit parts can make up a more complicated story with crazy plot spirals you could never expect. but tuluk you couldn't just do that kind of stuff you had to take every nuance into account also or you're a bad rper who doesn't get tuluk and are shamed by staff. Any attempts to make Allanak 'more complicated' from some well intentioned but short-sighted staffer stuffing more docs down players throats is going to make allanak smell like the nyrth. so the talk of complicating aods clan structure is worrying b/c that's exactly what hapepnd in tuluk. TESTIFY! ... but seriously, could you go into detail on what you were talking about with the ranks? That bit about three different kind of privates and the thing about pensions caught my interest. If anything it'd be a new addition to the argument against playing in the AoD in this thread.
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Post by glacierflux on Jun 30, 2015 0:51:39 GMT -5
there were three types of every soldier and it was real confusing. barely remember what it means anymore but here's the ranks. dunno if they changed after i left.
Sworn Private Triumphant Private Private Elite Sworn Corporal Proven Corporal Corporal Elite Sworn Sergeant Proven Sergeant Sergeant Elite Lieutenant Captain Templar
the rank structure went sworn > triumphant/proven > elite - so elite was better than triumphant/proven was better than sworn BUT NOT REALLY b/c it was tuluk. So reaaaaally nobody's better than anyone else amirite? laterlal promotions. if you were elite you knew you were the man, but only subtly of course. i think there maybe there was a tiny pay difference in the ranks, like 10 coins or something. does anyone else remember or am i just imagining that?
anyhoo back to pensions, i cant recall if this is totes right but iirc you didn't have to take a life oath unless you wanted to (annoying cause no clarity) you could just serve and then if you got old enough you could "retire" from the army and still get perks for being an old soldier. i bet 1000000 internets that the secret tuluk translation of "retire" that only nyr knows is "you can't really retire because everything around you is so shite and dystopian, but because we are subtle and you are brainwashed you can leave and not work anymore. but you're not really retired." Remember tuluk is harsh just like the rest of this game for real. you will just never know its harsh unless ur subtle, isn't that fun?? pretty sure nobody ever became a pensioner living off the dole anyway cause who gets old in this game besides 1-2 people out of 100
but i honestly don't care what the secret reason of retirement was it was overly complex just like the extra ranks. i am sure the initial idea was giving players something to work for without giving away any real IG power and not making ppl wait 1 rl year per rank increase but it just seemed meaningless to me and most ppl i played with
in allanak you join army, survive to private - bam now you're a soldier of tektolnes and you die for glory, you die for deserting, or you die due to storytellers not knowing how the fucking crim code works, the end. at least that is how it is for now.
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Post by gloryhound on Jun 30, 2015 0:54:15 GMT -5
Are you serious? Although I'd have to agree that many who hoped for more have left the game out of disappointment. Those remaining are a mix of newbies to whom Zalanthas is still somewhat new, those who hang on out of nostalgia, those who hang on out of a hope that won't die for a return to better days, and those who hang about because Arm's is about the only functional, populated RPI. Let me assure you that players would love to be able to do more, it's just that the lid is held on so tightly that they can't. I'll call bullshit on that. A good chunk of playerbase "do" prefer to fetch rocks. All these ... changes, for better or worse, is an attempt to make joining a clan more enticing. Hard to have a war or any kind of interclan conflict, when a vast chunk of playerbase prefers to stay indies forever. Many of them are scared of being locked into a boring role via a lifeoath. Result? Attempts to remove lifeoath, or provide alternatives. So you honestly figure that most players, even when offered the opportunity to, for example, discover some treasure out in the wastes, or learn some new magick, or explore some newly-exposed ruins, or buy a hovel of their own in the city, or add some piece of grotesque art to the small collection displayed around the city, or etc. etc. etc. anything that would change the game or be novel... they'll just say "no thanks, too busy gathering rocks, don't break my monotony"?
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Post by glacierflux on Jun 30, 2015 1:00:52 GMT -5
i think most ppl would choose to gather rocks if getting a hovel of their own in the city meant memorizing a 20mb text file of docs for that city and solo rping at least 10 hours of city culture off peak to send the logs to the people in charge who actually hate you for bothering them and schmoozing and rping just the right way with players to unlock the magic skill of hovel owning (apprentice). if it was actually attainable in a fun automated way like making a building in fallout 4 will be sure but the way it is now i will forage rocks until i die thanks.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Jun 30, 2015 1:04:24 GMT -5
yeah or if any of that shit wasnt a natural fit for their char concept
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 9:50:41 GMT -5
I'll call bullshit on that. A good chunk of playerbase "do" prefer to fetch rocks. All these ... changes, for better or worse, is an attempt to make joining a clan more enticing. Hard to have a war or any kind of interclan conflict, when a vast chunk of playerbase prefers to stay indies forever. Many of them are scared of being locked into a boring role via a lifeoath. Result? Attempts to remove lifeoath, or provide alternatives. So you honestly figure that most players, even when offered the opportunity to, for example, discover some treasure out in the wastes, or learn some new magick, or explore some newly-exposed ruins, or buy a hovel of their own in the city, or add some piece of grotesque art to the small collection displayed around the city, or etc. etc. etc. anything that would change the game or be novel... they'll just say "no thanks, too busy gathering rocks, don't break my monotony"? If those opportunities ment that they'll have to join a clan. Be locked in the city for a game year, need to grovel before the templars and nobles, without an ability to just go "Fuck you" and go out into the wastes, follow a schedule that's only partly ment to improve your skills and partly ment to bring you into the same room with other players, instead of going out into the wilds and maximize your skill gains. Yeah ... they're gonna refuse it. None of what you mentioned will be offered to a 0 day character. But get a group of people who arent fragile anymore, who each have their own goals and hopes and dreams. Get different groups like that all in one city. Shit starts to happen. Sometimes epic, sometimes very much less so, but it happens. Anyone here been part of the Legions before tuluk shit hit the fan? Wanna tell us how many secret tombs and weird shit you've explored, found, annihilated, died to?
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Post by glacierflux on Jun 30, 2015 11:34:51 GMT -5
i didn't explore any tombs or see any weird shit. the most exciting thing that happened while i was in the legions was going on patrol with a Templar and running away from a bahamet. most it was standing guard at parties/auctions for bards and kadians, patrolling and being bored. oh tuluk shrunk which did at least make getting to and from the barracks much easier. after i stored of course there was a big tomb dive in the middle of the city with bats. i think that happened right before the city closed. bet it was fun.
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Post by topkekm8s on Jun 30, 2015 13:26:08 GMT -5
i am going to apply to be a storyteller
i'd be the most wicked epic storyteller this side of this mississippi
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Post by Amos's Boots on Jun 30, 2015 14:04:33 GMT -5
i am going to apply to be a storyteller i'd be the most wicked epic storyteller this side of this mississippi Agreed. You add like 100% immersion to my roleplays. please. please. nyr do it.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341
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Post by my2sids on Jun 30, 2015 15:45:13 GMT -5
i am going to apply to be a storyteller i'd be the most wicked epic storyteller this side of this mississippi Staff complaint: Hey uh, some NPC OOC'd "Not really feelin this scene" then vanished right as my PC was about to kill them. What's up with that?
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Post by chaosisaladder on Jun 30, 2015 15:56:07 GMT -5
I dunno. It seems to me that if code exists that could easily result in a character without much OOC knowledge being slaughtered, it seriously needs to be rectified if you want to have a game where minimum OOC knowledge is enforced. I don't know how much effort/time that would take, I'm not a coder. From what I've heard, some of the infrastructure of Arm is so old its actually pretty difficult to replace. But thats just heresay. I would actually like to express a bit of sympathy for the staff, though. If nothing else, theres a forum constantly bashing them that points out every mistake they make as leaders. Yes, the reaction was childish and lacking in empathy. But if 50+ people mocked me incessantly, I might lash out pretty unfairly. I'd like to think I wouldn't, but I've never been in a situation where my leadership was questioned so extensively. (Then again, I'm pretty good at keeping my people at least content.)
What I will say is that I wish the staff would approach this site for a dialogue. Actually, really voice the other side. This site is really as much of an echo chamber as their side when the opposition isn't present. I wish this forum wasn't quite as insta-hostile as it is. We might actually get somewhere.
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Post by topkekm8s on Jun 30, 2015 15:57:31 GMT -5
i am going to apply to be a storyteller i'd be the most wicked epic storyteller this side of this mississippi Staff complaint: Hey uh, some NPC OOC'd "Not really feelin this scene" then vanished right as my PC was about to kill them. What's up with that? Player, The staffer in question was very obviously just not feeling the scene. Thank you, your complaint as has been resolved.
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Post by lyse on Jun 30, 2015 17:11:25 GMT -5
I dunno. It seems to me that if code exists that could easily result in a character without much OOC knowledge being slaughtered, it seriously needs to be rectified if you want to have a game where minimum OOC knowledge is enforced. I don't know how much effort/time that would take, I'm not a coder. From what I've heard, some of the infrastructure of Arm is so old its actually pretty difficult to replace. But thats just heresay. I would actually like to express a bit of sympathy for the staff, though. If nothing else, theres a forum constantly bashing them that points out every mistake they make as leaders. Yes, the reaction was childish and lacking in empathy. But if 50+ people mocked me incessantly, I might lash out pretty unfairly. I'd like to think I wouldn't, but I've never been in a situation where my leadership was questioned so extensively. (Then again, I'm pretty good at keeping my people at least content.) What I will say is that I wish the staff would approach this site for a dialogue. Actually, really voice the other side. This site is really as much of an echo chamber as their side when the opposition isn't present. I wish this forum wasn't quite as insta-hostile as it is. We might actually get somewhere. Well, I wouldn't say this forum would be insta-hostile, it probably would be a little unfriendly due to all of the unhappy players and former players at first. This forum is almost a direct result of insta-smugness and sooper-sekrit and don't kid yourself, if it weren't for this forum, nobody would've even known about the event in question, only vague references on the GDB. Something's wrong there. We know the code is old and probably not an easy fix. Arm's staff said they'll never come here for dialogue and people have asked. The only thing you're left with is a dialogue on the GDB which would look like this. Someplayer: I wanted to talk about that thing that happened; I feel it was a little unfair. Staff: No, You! Another staff: I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread nothing of value can be discussed here. *thread removed*
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