julio
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 270 
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Post by julio on Apr 29, 2015 0:54:38 GMT -5
These boards are not NSA Nyr proof, edward snowden topkekm8s. |
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nobody
Clueless newb
Posts: 82
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Post by nobody on Apr 29, 2015 1:15:25 GMT -5
If my GF played, and she was threatened like that for my own stupidity.... I'd fire up big time. I'm very discouraged really... it's not that I didn't know bad shit was happening, but when you really see it... also people like RedRanger leaving the game is also very fucked up. So many other good players disappearing. Docked 5 fucking karma in one hit? Wtf kind of review is that? How in hell can the producers allow that? Really? That makes me scared that it could just happen to me, despite all the hard work I have done to help contribute to the game, just through one error or some shit.
I think the lack of discussion is a huge problem when staff make decisions. There is no reasoning. It's just cold, and heartless. I think that needs to change. We are humans. We are emotional. Your volunteers, yes, but you fucking volunteered for the position! If you don't like being a decent human being and interacting with players you hate and love, then move on. I could hate all of you, but if your playing decently within ARM, I don't care. I'll still be a decent human being. It's so forbidden to open dialogue... that's horseshit IMO.
It seems very much players vs staff. Obviously not everyone... but it shouldn't be like that. There should be trust, and faith in our staff to do the right thing, or look to fix any problem without firing the gun first, then looking to your target.
I'd be quite upset if staff accused me of something foul, but then quickly retracted. Cause if they think I'd be capable to do something so shitty in the first place, the trust is gone.
I'm really grateful jcarter has set up this board. I feel safe here, posting about what I'm feeling and thinking at the current moment. It's nice to hear talk on ARM. I'd really like to see this board turn into a RPI haven, which it seems to be anyway. Anyone remember what Wade tried to do with RPI-Net. More work on the Wiki... anyhow, getting off topic.
The quote for how the conversation should have went, was spot on. That's how communication should be.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Apr 29, 2015 1:24:51 GMT -5
until theyre forced to put up a different front to recover from player loss they wont do any of this just as they haven't had to for over 20 yrs. supreme overlord makes of point of being distant unapproachable rude and short when communicating with players (his ants) and of course ur going to have a staff that feels no prob doing the same thing and feeling the same way about what their position means, esp if theyre speaking for him
theres no incentive for that setup (controlled dialogue) to change so they wont
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Apr 29, 2015 1:34:40 GMT -5
I would change just to spite you jkarr |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 29, 2015 1:46:43 GMT -5
And Sirra, again, with the langauge it just... Y'know, fuck it. Saying this to you is falling on deaf ears. I'm pretty sure I've metaphorically killed contrarians, ate them, shat them out, and then continued beating their horse-like corpses in threads on at least three occasions so far without regard for how people viewed it. The bar for how everyone else treats contrarians is pretty fucking low. I don't think you're going to curb sirra's word-use. I just feel like it's so over the top that there is definitely something going on with whoever Nyr thought he was targeting (which again, it's not jazet and his wife). We don't know what that guy did and how many accounts he had. I'm trying to come up with a realistic reason as to why such an email would be sent OTHER than Nyr is just plain insane, yes? I believe you've confused something here. My interpretation of Nyr's apology was, "I was looking at someone on the Shadowboard and assumed it was you." not "Whoops, I meant to punish a different guy and his wife but double-clicked on the wrong name." The distinction being he knew full-well who Jazet was, punished him, and threatened to punish his wife because he was confused which former staffer was doing something. Jazet was accused of breach of confidence, so your "cheating; close all known accounts" hypothesis doesn't work. In addition, since Jazet was already taking shit from the staff, if Nyr believed Jazet was multiplaying why wouldn't he shut down both accounts anyways? What, he felt so bad about calling the wrong "known multi-playing cheater" a snitch, he decided to give him a pass on being a cheater? It doesn't make sense, man. But I want more context to that email (not from jazen because he's not the target, so there's no context from him, he just randomly received some weird threatening email from Nyr out of nowhere). I'd like to know who it was supposed to be sent to, who that guy was, what he did to receive it and why would Nyr feel like all the accounts related to him should be terminated. You're asking for a level of proof you should know is impossible to provide. Remember what I warned you about back in the Byn thread about demanding proof? We'd need Nyr to clear up things on his half, and regardless of what this person did, I highly doubt it warrants the message Nyr sent. It takes zero effort to lie using text. There's literally no barrier that prevents a person from boldly declaring a bunch of bullshit in a tone of unassailable confidence. Just how do you plan to verify anything he says? Disagree, I doubt we'll find the answers on these boards. There's no mention of anyone recieving ban threats/punishment and threats to their wife's account afaik outside ofJazek. We'd need Nyr to clear up things on his half, and regardless of what this person did, I highly doubt it warrants the message Nyr sent. it was obviously something on these boards that got him all riled up. he says it in the e-mail. STOP BRINGING THOSE MEDDLESOME FACTS INTO THIS! (love the overly sensationalized title too! Threats From Armageddon Staff (Nyr) And Misc. Awful - Never Forget 4/13) I do think the title should be changed, it is kinda... Non objective. Ugh, this whole discussion was just draining. I'm going back to essay writing. Well, in keeping with the GoT theme, could we rename it "Where Whores Go"? As for the title needing to be objective, I can't think of any reason why. Does it change the impact of what was done for jazet to feign being cooly detached and writing as if he was following Wikipedia guidelines? I would change just to spite you jkarrOh come on. Is there anything you wouldn't do purely out of spite? It's like me saying I'm going to argue with someone because I'm feeling disagreeable as if there's some other state I'm ever in. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Apr 29, 2015 2:45:34 GMT -5
Years ago? Considering the massive troll that I used to be.. probably not. Nowadays I don't care as much to be the time and effort into it. But yeah spite is great.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 29, 2015 3:19:10 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think the 2 likely official responses are particularly good, I was just playing them out. I'm not willing to do the dance of devils advocate for this situation further than saying this is what I expect you should expect and why.
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Post by JEDIKITTY on Apr 29, 2015 3:34:51 GMT -5
I think Arm needs to have a customer service sector.
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Lizzie
Clueless newb
Posts: 199
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Post by Lizzie on Apr 29, 2015 4:26:25 GMT -5
lol ok i used to think we were all being too hard on nyr here. Like "he can't possibly be the only problem, he's just a symptom of it"
But hahaha no. nah im good sorry for ever thinking we should show him some slack.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Apr 29, 2015 5:18:08 GMT -5
No they need a watchdog. Essentially an internal affairs. Every organization should have something similar to this. Basically it would consist of someone(s) who aren't directly in the "chain of command" of the games admins. They would hold purview over dealing with complaints. Could solve a lot of problems, but would never happen at Arm because the "owners" would never allow such an ethical system to be put in place. Really that is what it comes down to. Who even is the owner of Arm? The owner is who should really be taking the criticism because they are allowing all of this to happen. Indeed I would also say the owner should never hold an administrator position or play the game either, it's a very thankless thing.
I know Arm has a hierarchy I just don't know what the fuck any of it means.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 5:36:16 GMT -5
In fairness, that's a pretty tall order for a game of this type. You can't expect an internal affairs person. You can expect staff to behave relatively professionally and with the level of common decency required to oversee a community of ostensibly like-minded enthusiasts. Expecting it doesn't mean you'll get it, as we're all resoundingly aware, but it's something one can expect of this kind of game. Just like you can expect parents at a little league game not to assault the referee, but sometimes a mentally unstable douchebag creeps into the community.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Apr 29, 2015 6:00:00 GMT -5
I was using internal affairs relationally not literally. SoI actually had a couple staffers whose sole job was customer service. I can't remember what they called them but it was some fancy title. I can't speak to its effectiveness but it will only be as effective as the person in power allows such a job to be. Luckily in the real world the people have the power to vote, you don't get that luxury at some online game on the internet that is free to play. If we were paying customers though what do you think the response would be? I think many of the so-called people in power would have been fired a long time ago.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 6:04:00 GMT -5
Armageddon largely survives on the fact that it's pretty much the only real RPI that isn't dead, unfinished, or just a shit product. They have no real competitors. If they did, there might have been greater pressure to maintain some professionalism, and the playerbase would be less inclined to tolerate the festival of shit that is today's Arm.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 386
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Post by jesantu on Apr 29, 2015 6:30:33 GMT -5
I can't believe anyone in this thread is even trying to defend the decision to threaten banning a player's wife for their alleged misgivings. As if to say: but wait, we don't have all the facts, there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation behind this! I think about the only sensible reply to that which comes to mind is: bitch, please.
You're reaching for straws in a desperate attempt to defend someone being a cock just for devil's advocate sake.
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jazet
Clueless newb
Posts: 97
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Post by jazet on Apr 29, 2015 6:59:09 GMT -5
Alas, it's the internet and some people are going to be contrary to the reasonable man standard just to troll or to push their own agenda. It benefits Malken for people on the GDB to think he's some sort of champion for Truth, Justice and the Armageddon Way. But to anyone who is reasonable, they can see that the staff's actions were biased, heavy handed and knee-jerk reactive. It simply does not matter in the least if I wasn't the person they were looking for, if I already had a bad reputation with the staff or even if I was doing something that they would force store and karma dock me over, my wife was an entirely other player and shouldn't be subjected to the same punishments as me. What it was, plain and simple, was a warning shot that any future fuckups would get not only ME punished but her, an unrelated player with their own account, history, etc, as well.
I will say it again, 100%, this absolutely changed my ability to play my roles the way I wanted to, guilty or not, punished or not, wrong or not, because I suddenly had knowledge that there was a Producer, at that time, who was willing to not only punish _ME_ for something, but was also willing to take it out on my wife. That kind of fear mongering tactic as an administrator is the issue at hand, not if the email went to the wrong person or not, that is moot. I could have been guilty as hell, but is it entirely necessary to apply collateral damage in punishment to get your point and control need satisfied?
Let's not gloss over the fact that there was previous history from staff of them nitpicking and punishing her account and characters, because of my reputation. This was one incident, and I've cited others. And I'm sure if I went into my email for more than a passive check (these were watershed moments in my memory) I could find more.
To her credit, she's not vocal about it, not talking about it, not sharing her emails and not making any kind of issue about it because she doesn't give a shit about Armageddon as a player or former staffer. She has been detached from wanting to play there for years, and it was always my nudging that would get her to make a character to do something with me, but by and large, she's not been a regular player there in an "addicted fashion" since before 2000. I guess her bullshit filter is more finely tuned than mine.
But the point, at the end of the day remains, Nyr handles problems he thinks are an immediate concern with napalm when a flashlight would do the trick.
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