If Nyr had always been as civil as he's been lately, then this board probably wouldn't exist. However, there's always Nessalin if you're feeling nostalgic for some good old backhanding.
The only time nessalin has ever had anything to say to me was in relation to Nyr bullshit, and if I had to guess, I would guess that's because someone emailed him and he felt obligated to say something.
Post by shadycharacter on Sept 23, 2015 21:31:25 GMT -5
I guess this falls under the Misc. Awful category of Nyr, and my friend would very much like me to post it. He acted as an intermediary in trying to get my ban lifted, since I do not have access to the request tool.
To begin with, as there had been nothing but dead silence for my registered email since they banned me, I tried emailing Nyr from another address. To my surprise, he responded but ended up feigning ignorance as to knowing who I was. Naturally, he could have simply looked at my account details.
Not sure who this is. If you were banned after that amnesty, no, it does not still apply. I would recommend reading whatever it was staff told you when they banned you.
The name is definitely not ringing a bell. I would probably remember someone I disagreed with a lot, or someone that would be prone to sending copious emails and making broad assumptions about lots of things, or someone that doesn't know how to take "no" for an answer.
Are you sure you are emailing the right game's staff?
Sorry, I am not familiar with those names at all. I would definitely remember someone that played a Templar or had lots of karma. As you know, being somewhat familiar with this game, templar players and players with karma are literally the cream of the crop. That status never gets lost, nor does it change with time or experience with that player.
Did you ever play in Tuluk? I staffed quite a bit there. Maybe that is why I can't recall!
At this point, I went to the trouble of digging up names for him and sending evidence that I was indeed a player as I found it. That involved going all the way back into the pre-2010s, so it was a number of emails sent. Everything went dead silent at this point. No response to all of the evidence, but then, it was all there for him to see in my account details.
My friend tried to be an intermediary for me after silence descended once more, as I said. I'm sure he'll be posting soon enough. Here is what Nyr sent in response, in a true display of professionalism:
Resending with formatting so that you don't once again try and create another account (by the way, we're scrambling this one, we don't want to talk to you at all) just to ask us to resend it because you had trouble understanding "no". I'll also bold things for you.
X, To put it bluntly: Not just "no", but "hell no". You have sent 12 unanswered or uninterrupted emails in the span of several hours, not including several more sent to other staff members. It appears that it did not cross your mind once that this is unreasonable behavior. Had you done this at a place of employment, it would have resulted in your termination. Had you done this to an acquaintance or friend in real life, they would have (and should have) written you off as clingy, obsessive, and potentially deserving of a restraining order. This would appear to be because you haven't changed a bit: you are the same needy, narcissistic player that cannot do without having some form of staff attention focused on you (negative or otherwise). You cannot abide a "no" (and for the nth time, you've proven that). This isn't limited to our game. You've been banned from another game, much to our surprise (insert sarcasm here), and you went by the same name there. No, we don't care what you think happened there, so go ahead and stuff it in advance. Your publicized behavior there was so much like your non-publicized behavior here that I wouldnot be surprised if you have been banned from more games than Sindome and Armageddon. You also appear to be incapable of understanding when someone wants to sever ties with you and does not want you around. It was specifically said to you in a nice way that you aren't wanted here. Let's go with the not so nice way: we on staff feel that you are a terrible player that we do not want around. Why? Does it matter at this point? Not to us; we've tried to explain this to you and you refuse to understand. Go with "staff finds that you are impossible to communicate with in any capacity" and leave it there. The other part really isn't so hard to understand, but let's go there again. You are trying to appeal something that won't be overturned. This was told to you at the time. So...reiterating...
No. It won't be overturned. No. We do not want you back. No. You are a drain on our staff. No. We don't care how awesome you think you were. No. You don't understand how terrible you are and you probably won't. We've already been over your issues repeatedly. No. We don't care if you think this is unfair. No. We don't care what you have to say. We don't want you here. One-way communication is unproductive. You spent your years of playing this game with us trying to communicate to you and you refusing to listen to that communication. As such, you now see and will continue to see what it feels like to be on the other end of one-way communication. Your spam has only reminded us how much we don't want you playing this game. Responding at all will only strengthen our resolve to ignore you. Read this email, particularly the "no" parts (I bolded all of them so that you would at least have to struggle to ignore them this time around), and kindly fuck off.
Nyr Producer ArmageddonMUD Staff
I'll just follow that with some notes:
1. The reason Nyr received several emails from me is because he solicited information on who I might have played in the north. I had to find these things digging through two email addressed used over the years, so I sent both names and other information supporting the fact that I was a real player as I found them. That's why he has several emails.
2. The "several" other staff members emailed were Adhira and Nessalin, Nyr's fellow Producers. I asked them if it was appropriate that he was pretending not to know who I was, even as I followed his instructions and did the work.
3. I am not banned from Sindome. I play it to this day. He drew that information from an old board post which is long since irrelevant.
4. The individual who submitted the request Nyr was replying to was not me. He stated this plainly in two sentences, but Nyr appears to have ignored it in his rush to go on the offensive.
Oh well. At least civility will be hard policy on the game I'm working on, even for staff. If a staff member had addressed anyone in that fashion on either of my games, I don't care who, they'd be fired.
If Nyr had always been as civil as he's been lately, then this board probably wouldn't exist.
It seemed to me that Nyr had indeed been acting civil. It seemed to me that he may have turned over a new leaf. I talked to shady and with this in mind I suggested he attempt to get his ban lifted in light of this new age of civility. I had high hopes!
Using a Hong Kong proxy and a junkmail account (because I don't want any bad side-effects of this getting my Templar character stored) I relayed the following message through a fresh account named Dmango. Anything [OMIT] is info removed from this post out of respect to shadycharacter.
Contained below is a message directed to the Producers. Feel free to respond using the emails provided by [OMIT]. Once you have responded in that fashion feel free to close this request. ________________________________________________________________ Hello,
I am having a friend submit this on my behalf in hopes of resolving my situation, as I am presently banned from Armageddon. My account is [OMIT], and my associated email is [OMIT].
Yesterday, I decided to make a plea to Nyr for a reprieve from my ban. I sent this from the address [OMIT] because my requests from my registered address had gone unanswered for well over a year. To my surprise, he answered.
Nyr conducted himself as if he did not know who I was, even though I supplied my account name and email address early into the discussion, and I knew the account still existed. He said he would surely remember anyone with high karma who had played a templar. So, I gave character names and other associated documentation and emails.
This was not enough. Nyr came back saying he didn't recognize any of the names, and asked whether I'd had any characters in Tuluk. Once again, I supplied him with copious records of Tuluki characters, applications, and so on.
In the midst of all this, I also provided a karma record from an account review showing, on dated lines, when I received every karma point up to 6. I have every email, every date for everything.
Whatever you would like to prove that I have played, I will, but Nyr actually spoke to me (first staffer to do so in over a year) and discussed this up to the point that I supplied him with Tuluki data and my karma records. I feel a bit like I was played for a fool, and that I dug up all of that info he wanted for nothing. He could've just looked at the records on my account.
I didn't want all of this drama. All I'd like to do is return to play with my friends, quiet and unbothersome. The ban has been long and I've learned my lesson. Once again, my account is [OMIT] and the email address is [OMIT] . . .
Here's a grab from my mail daemon of the automated message by the request system... The next day, I received the reply to my email that shadycharacter has already quoted. I would be taking screenshots of the request itself but (true to his word!) the account is scrambled. I sure hope my proxy worked because I would hate for my Templar character to get stored because of this!
First Nyr responded with a block of text sent from his phone. Shortly after, he got on a PC and formatted this withering retort.
Needless to say, I was proven wrong about my expectations Nyr would be anything resembling professional or reasonable. This is now no longer an expectation I will ever entertain. No longer else will I entertain that Nyr has any accountability or limit on the amount of shit he can get away with. It is this reason that I have no hope in the staff complaint system; not because I think all staff are bad, but because as shown by Nyr's retaining of arbitrary power there is no way to actually punish him for his incompetence and toxicity. If there was a way, it should have been used years ago.
That all being said... There are decent staff members on the Armageddon team; you can play for a week in the right clan and know this is true. There are good staff members. Nyr is not one of them. Nyr is a grandiose, schizophrenic control freak. The entire staff team suffers due to his arrogance and belligerence. The entire playerbase suffers due to his megalomaniac tendencies and arbitrary incestuous decisions. He has fucked himself so deep into the core of Armageddon that half of the staff (whether by personal relation or internet fraternity) could never possibly dream of performing their volunteer duties of deleting posts on the GDB and admonishing enterprising characters in-game without him. The other half (those he has not picked to raise up due to their support of his magnificent efforts in saving this game) fear reprisal and punishment if they speak against him; they are the good ones, because they are in the same boat as the players. Just like the players, they say good things when they rarely can... Nothing at all when they cannot. Nyr does not speak for them, though he would claim he does. Any level of tact a decent admin would be expected to have is void in him. I believe the man pays for the server out of his own pocket, so that only he owes himself any accountability. He is unable to forgive; however, as evidenced by the messages, he can at least pretend to forget. He, as always, is incapable of turning his critique onto himself. Had you done this at a place of employment, Nyr, it would have resulted in your termination. I only wish that would have been the case.
It is my hope that Nyr gets into a car crash and fractures both of his hands. In this scenario, Armageddon would improve for at least a few weeks. But this is just my personal opinion, nobody else's.
It is a fact that Nyr requested the information from shadycharacter. I know this because I have seen the emails. It is a fact that shady sent this information as he found it, over the course of digging through years of old mails from Armageddon. Despite this information, Nyr continued to pretend not to know who shady was. Only when I submitted my request did he reveal he knew everything all along! The devil. I half expect him to release the emails in an attempt to show how he was so bullied and waterlogged, what with shady burdening the poor man for sending the emails that he did send; he would have to, if he really wanted to pursue that schizophrenic restraining order. Of course, doing that would be violating staff policy... But when has violating staff precedent created by better admins before him ever stopped Nyr?
TL;NODR: Step down, Nyr, and let someone who isn't such a bitter person take your responsibility and do something better with it. Everyone will be better off.
Last Edit: Sept 23, 2015 23:25:14 GMT -5 by purgpurgpurg: [b]NO[/b]
Post by bastilleangel on Sept 24, 2015 0:37:52 GMT -5
You know, reading over this just reminds me of the dreadful amount of time I spent over my Arm. "career" trying to massage this man's ego and bloated sense of self-importance. Every time I read yet another sordid scenario like the above, it makes me miss playing a little bit less.
Even taking Nyr's position as gospel, the tone of his reply is (or would be in any sane organization that purports to be striving for professionalism) shocking. If there is a player that is consistently and grossly at odds with the rules of the game, and it's time to cut them loose permanently, this is NOT the way to do it. If there had actually been appropriate attempts at resolving the issue(s) before, which I highly doubt, then Nyr's response needed to read something like this:
We have attempted to resolve this issue previously without success, and have clearly exhausted all avenues. This is the final communication between yourself and ArmageddonMUD. Your playing style is fundamentally incompatible with this game. Please move on to a MUD that better suits your needs.
Producer ArmageddonMUD Staff"
...Of course, I also expect to look outside my window and see pigs flying about the same time I read an email from Nyrcakes with anything approaching professionalism or even basic dignity. The man seems to have a friggin' love affair with hyperbole and ad hominem attacks. I believe he's the sole Arm. staffer about whom I've had the thought "I have no interest in meeting this person in real life, let alone having them over for dinner" (I cook a lot). Even when I was butting heads with other staffers, which honestly was pretty darn rare outside of Nyr, I never felt dismissed as a human. They may have had a different vision of the world and how it should work, but Nyr is the only one I've seen act out of bad faith. To those of us that love Arm., it's rather awful to contemplate the very real possibility of him being "large and in charge" for another decade or two.
You guys see, I was under the same now-obvious delusion as this guy (no offense sirra)
Fair enough. I've never been banned, but every time I've felt my interest to log in begin to wane, it's always been in the wake of an interaction with Nyr and/or Nessalin.
Historically speaking, odds are you are right, and I am wrong. In years past, Nyr's typical go to response for handling HR resources was like so:
These days, it's more an arrogant detachment and indifference. Which seems like a step up, but doesn't conceal the fact that he always assumes the worst of other people and pre-judges them accordingly. He's just not so ragingly personal about it, and is inclined more towards giving legalese answers. He excels at picking apart any complaints for even the slightest perceived variation from the various byzantine 'protocol rules' and using any seeming breach to disqualify your opinion. It works well for him since arguing the point that you weren't in breach of the rules is in itself a breach of the rules.
However frustrating, that's still preferable to being fucked to death. I don't think he's deliberately fucked someone over code-wise in years. He's certainly never done to PCs what say, Halaster and a few others did on a regular basis. He's just a very bitter man.
I'm not exaggerating when I say that Nyr is the worst person I have ever encountered online.
Had to pause and consider this for a good long moment, but at the end of it, out of 17 years of heavy internet and Armageddon use... I agree with you.
No one else really even comes close. Especially after reading that shit from dmango... I mean, what in the actual fuck is that.
Hey people: say what the fuck you want to about this board, but posts like the transcript of what was said to dmango is EXACTLY why this board is fucking important... I mean, how can someone read shit like that and then still have good faith in the admins of a game where they are basically forced to deal with the admins on a near constant basis of they wish to do anything besides exercise their coded skills.
Last Edit: Sept 26, 2015 18:22:38 GMT -5 by Deleted
how can someone read shit like that and then still have good faith in the admins of a game where they are basically forced to deal with the admins on a near constant basis of they wish to do anything besides exercise their coded skills.
That's why you won't see a great deal of cheer and enthusiasm for staff efforts on the GDB these days. No one really looks up to them anymore. They play because they like the game, not because they care about current imms. And even though this board here has its naysayers and gdb cheerleaders (which is fine, I'm not saying they're unwelcome) none of them can give you an intelligent explanation for staff attitude these days. There is no "wait, they're just misunderstood" argument that could possibly stand on two legs. And added to that, there is very little show of appreciation for any recent changes or additions to the game. The apathy and disinterest which overwhelmed tuluk in its dying days has now shifted to the rest of the game. I wish this wasn't the case and maybe things will change some time down the road, but for right now it is what it is.
Jan 17, 2020 1:49:37 GMT -5
mehtastic: vex is Shalooonsh confirmed
Jan 17, 2020 5:17:45 GMT -5
grumble: The plot, and dick, thickens.
Jan 17, 2020 9:53:50 GMT -5
High Sun Freeze Gun: I'm finally done , people likr Triste make the discord unbearable
Jan 17, 2020 10:27:09 GMT -5
Jeshin: Who is Triste?
Jan 17, 2020 10:31:34 GMT -5
grumble: A hater, complaining about haters, who aren't really haters.
Jan 17, 2020 11:30:21 GMT -5
grumble: I mean, there's no hate to it. If a bunch of people come forward with complaints like these, you can't just blame the victims.
Jan 17, 2020 11:31:09 GMT -5
grumble: If, as an effect of being revealed, it drives people away from the game, it's not the truth's fault. The truth is the truth. If you don't like the truth, then change the situation to suit the narrative in your head.
Jan 17, 2020 11:32:28 GMT -5
Jeshin: I've noticed there is a habit of dehumanizing this board and people who bring complaints as haters, goblins, toxic, etc etc. Yet there is normally very little dehumanization here of staff or players. Or is there
Jan 17, 2020 11:45:15 GMT -5
grumble: Fucking dehumanize the world. We're all animals and we do dumb shit. There is nothing divine about humanity. That said, we have standards.
Jan 18, 2020 16:15:32 GMT -5
MartenBroadcloak: Speak for yourself Jesus. Don't force yer hippy ideals on me.
Jan 18, 2020 20:50:54 GMT -5
grumble: Why do you not bow, plebian?
Jan 19, 2020 15:27:29 GMT -5
grumble: *farts loudly*
Jan 23, 2020 3:35:08 GMT -5
pinkerdlu: degenerates like you belong on a cross
Jan 25, 2020 22:36:38 GMT -5