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Post by sirra on Apr 21, 2015 17:51:45 GMT -5
Totally off the topic; I think, Allanak was always more popular then Tuluk because its culture offers more familiarity with modern culture than Tuluk's. Allanak is your ordinary evil empire; Public executions, open bribes, trival punishment methods, a lawless part of city, noble houses fighting for power in a senate, slaves fighting in a pit, etc. Also I always thought 'nak is Dark Sun version of Roman Culture, and Tuluk is Egyptian one. Obviously modern popular culture has more roots in Roman then Egyptian. Back; I began playing ARM in 2001-02ish, even then there were some complains of Tuluk anyway. I always prefered Tuluk, but still excited to see how a single city-state will change things. I think the way IMMs decide to end Tuluk is not a bad idea at all. This is much better then a meteor or some other type of godly destruction. If nothing else, much more fun and open-ended. Allanak was always more popular because it was more Dark Sun-esque. I know one intrepid poster has drawn up an example equating Tuluk with another city-state from Dark Sun. But let's be real. Allanak is iconic. It's always true though, that settings which are intuitive and iconic and instinctively more familiar to us (Yay, brutal, corrupt dictatorship!), will always be more easily RP'd than those that require us to read a bunch've docs or familiarize ourselves with someone's fan fiction. |
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Post by legendary on Apr 21, 2015 21:09:26 GMT -5
Who is pressuring southern players to accommodate Tulukis: Not staff. Find out IC? Yes, we know your terrible character is championing the cause of a former Tuluk who committed crimes against the state. That you choose to be a special snowflake doesn't excuse the pressure being applied to other leadership roles in Luirs and Allanak, to ease back on harassing or executing the displaced PCs. There are three PCs in Allanak who committed crimes against Allanak that are getting a free re-start because of it. There is one in Luirs, partly responsible for what happened to Kurac, who remains untouchable because of it. When staff open a communication with, 'You're free to choose how to handle this' and end it with 'We'd prefer you not kill these PCs.', it means you're in the shit if you choose to kill those PCs, against their wishes. Fuck off. |
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341 
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Post by my2sids on Apr 21, 2015 21:24:21 GMT -5
You have no idea.
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Post by topkekm8s on Apr 21, 2015 21:26:41 GMT -5
DAYUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Apr 21, 2015 21:44:01 GMT -5
best work ur bolt or fall out quick debba ur getting wrekt
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 21, 2015 23:47:03 GMT -5
Sorry but Nyr already explained that the main reason tuluk is getting closed, is more or less because staff is feeling lazy and wants to reduce work load. The rest of the 'reasons' are just feel good bullshit that never really mattered to staff in in regards to closing tuluk, they just want to do less as nyr has specifically explained. I want to like Rathustra, since they seem like they put effort into the work in the north but man talk about butt hurt. They bought into the staff arrogant bullshit attitude, and spoke out like they were big fucking shit when people were discussing closing tuluk, only to have all their work sacked, ultimately fucking forcing them to eat their fucking words. While I did like your post, believe it or not, I have nothing but sympathy for Rath. His (I'm guessing he's a guy but really don't know) work just got flushed down the toilet by the Bureaucratic Powers That Be. It was probably dropped with little warning while playing lip service to his objections as the plan went in. My impression is that bit about Tuluk "totally reopening some day for serious when the stars align" was a load of bullshit Nyr fed Rath after ending Tuluk. You know, something to give Rath hope. I believe the name for the tactic he used is "temporizing an issue". It's where you just keep putting off dealing with something while pretending you'll get around it, until the issue either resolves itself or the upset party(ies) forget about it. (Incidentally, Littlefinger does it in A Dance With Dragons, so Nyr probably got the idea from there.) As you might guess that tactic can blow up in the user's face pretty easily. My guess is it'll result in Rath retiring when he accepts he's been lied to. So, as such, I won't be ragging on Rath (beyond questioning his choice in line-drops). He had good ideas, he really seemed to care, but Nyr probably yelled, "OM NOM NOM" when he announced Tuluk's closure before giggling to himself about slipping headcrabs into the game. Maybe he yelled "BE THE CHANGE" as he was the change? Regardless... Seriously everyone is afraid of rest of the game getting fucked over this because staff is trying to accommodate other people in places like allanak. So why try to alienate the rest of the playerbase by coming out sounding biased towards the few people who put up with the shit called tuluk? Again I know there is a lot of butt hurt right now, but just remember the rest of the bullshit spewed in the last post, '...more armageddon players'. It's like this. The staff did a bunch of retarded changes and experiments in Tuluk. They went against the wishes of the playerbase, two decades of docs/history, game design, and reason because Nyr. Then they torpedoed the mess they (Nyr) made. Now they are (Nyr is) focused on Allanak. No acknowledgement of mistakes were made. No sign of learning has been given. Nobody on staff has been bragging about their crit-fails in Tuluk causing them to branch Improvements into Long-Term Planning and Game Design. Oh and considering the amount of work it would actually take to restart and reopen the Tuluk again, I really wouldn't count on the place ever returning. lol. Really, all they need to do is open it, announce it'll be unstaffed, and walk away. They might be surprised what develops there. EDIT: To be clear, I've never been a big fan of Tuluk, but I spent a lot of time up there with my second go at playing Arm. It wasn't all bad. The main problem with Tuluk was it had all this behind-the-scenes shit most people couldn't be a part of, and the minority who could be a part of it were endlessly hamstrung by the staff (Nyr). |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 0:56:08 GMT -5
Aside from all that, Tuluk - for all its faults - played a huge role in binding the game world together. Not because it did anything particularly well but because in the entire upper half of the game world, it's the only real piece of civilization. The south has Allanak, Red Storm, and I'd consider Luir's to geographically belong to the south as well in terms of gameplay cohesiveness. The north (meaning the scrubs, gypsy lands, grasslands, forest, upper Tablelands and the canyon shit way north) had nothing except Tuluk to prop it up. That entire region was designed to function because it surrounded a city, and won't function if it doesn't.
No matter how shit a city is, it stabilizes the entire surrounding region by simply being a city. If there's an area of the game that isn't within reasonable riding distance of things like a tavern with crimcode, a stable, a place to buy food/water and some basic equipment, then that area becomes nearly unplayable. And with desert elves being a diminishing aspect of the game and Luir's being a place that's only a serious option as permanent home for members of one particular clan, the furthest north that most players are going to play out of is... Allanak.
In all likelihood, this will render the whole upper half of the game world an empty, unsightly relic of the past. That's a huge loss for the game. It's especially bad because the north remains vastly superior for skillgains, so this means that when people do try to persist in their grasslands training programme, they're completely removed from the roleplaying environment instead of within walking distance of it. Yet when the alternative is to hunt in the south, what the fuck are they supposed to do?
Zalanthas, as a game world, is clearly designed around two geographically polarized spheres of play. Removing one of them is hugely destabilizing. You can't just yank out one of its two supporting pillars and expect it to work. You wouldn't design the game world like this if it had a single city to begin with. It turns Armageddon into a very poorly designed game world that has its least useful wilderness centered around the city and its most playable areas so far away that most people can't realistically go. The south is useless for hunting and resource gathering, but this was somewhat okay in the past because all of this could take place in the north where the existence of a city made it possible.
Without Tuluk, Zalanthas is a very badly designed setting for a game.
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alleys
Clueless newb
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Post by alleys on Apr 22, 2015 1:28:47 GMT -5
Zalanthas, as a game world, is clearly designed around two geographically polarized spheres of play. Removing one of them is hugely destabilizing. You can't just yank out one of its two supporting pillars and expect it to work. You wouldn't design the game world like this if it had a single city to begin with. It turns Armageddon into a very poorly designed game world that has its least useful wilderness centered around the city and its most playable areas so far away that most people can't realistically go. The south is useless for hunting and resource gathering, but this was somewhat okay in the past because all of this could take place in the north where the existence of a city made it possible. Without Tuluk, Zalanthas is a very badly designed setting for a game. This is a great point. One of the problems of the setting was, it was driving players to go to a City to raise their skills. Time to time, Tuluk playerbase turned into a huge group of hunters and a few templar/noble players with NPC guards. Closing Tuluk and turning it into a hunting lodge/camp/outpost will undoubtly destabilize the gaming world. On the other hand, I am not sure what RP side will lose in such a change. After reading How to Ranger Post and similar ones, I am not sure of damage to the RP atmosphere. On the other hand, I agree there need to be locations for players to live in Allanak and (realisticly) still make some hunting or gathering. I hope and am happy that Obsidian deposits and salt collecting will be much more dangerous then before though. After thinking about oldtwink's point, I begin to wonder if this change in hunting/gathering side of the game will begin to force players into clans or groups, or would simply made them lose interest/fun. |
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Apr 22, 2015 2:27:59 GMT -5
^ that and the fact that there will be an entire outpost in the north (which if game history is to be followed typically includes 'a tavern (crimcode yet to be determined), a stable, a place to buy food/water and some basic equipment'), then your argument about the north being nearly unplayable goes out the window
that said, ur general pt about having some decent safe haven within all of that abundance stands, and definitely the lack of places to stay and live for nonwilderness folk may be detrimental, but unfortunately probly by ooc design (south consolidationz first!)
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Post by sirra on Apr 22, 2015 3:22:23 GMT -5
In all likelihood, this will render the whole upper half of the game world an empty, unsightly relic of the past. That's a huge loss for the game. It's especially bad because the north remains vastly superior for skillgains, so this means that when people do try to persist in their grasslands training programme, they're completely removed from the roleplaying environment instead of within walking distance of it. Yet when the alternative is to hunt in the south, what the fuck are they supposed to do? Honestly, I get what you are saying, but I've always felt that Armageddon could do with a bit more empty spaces that were actually worth a shit, as opposed to having nothing to offer (like the silt sea). It feels like the map has gotten a lot smaller over the last 10-15 years (even though I know it hasn't been). It feels like 8-10 years ago, you could very legitimately carve out a niche in the world, and have some kind of raider base. But NO ONE has done that since, in any meaningful fashion, outside with the assistance of a coded camp. People basically zoom around, and having a city or a major road leading to one always being within like 20 rooms at most, always gave me a slightly claustrophobic feeling. There's no raider or outlaw camp, which absent some kind of sorc's protection, couldn't be blitzed to in five minutes. Where certain groups were supposed to have their own space, like delves, halflings, mantis or gypsies, they basically needed big fuck off coded warning signs to stay away...along with swift and violent staff intervention if they saw you near there on the who/where list. The grasslands might even be fun again, if you had to take on some modicum of risk to go faff around up there, without being able to bolt back into Tuluk. Anyhow...the South used to be FINE for hunting and skilling up, until successive code changes made it increasingly difficult to raise your combat-related skills without going to some extreme measure. It used to be quite reasonable. |
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Apr 22, 2015 3:49:27 GMT -5
]Honestly, I get what you are saying, but I've always felt that Armageddon could do with a bit more empty spaces that were actually worth a shit, as opposed to having nothing to offer (like the silt sea). It feels like the map has gotten a lot smaller over the last 10-15 years (even though I know it hasn't been). It feels like 8-10 years ago, you could very legitimately carve out a niche in the world, and have some kind of raider base. But NO ONE has done that since, in any meaningful fashion, outside with the assistance of a coded camp. People basically zoom around, and having a city or a major road leading to one always being within like 20 rooms at most, always gave me a slightly claustrophobic feeling. There's no raider or outlaw camp, which absent some kind of sorc's protection, couldn't be blitzed to in five minutes. u make a very good point and i think technically it would open up a lot more opportunities for those sorts of camps to exist IF the fucking staff didnt already put out that theyd be on virtual outlaw watch in the area ie the place will virtually be just as populated as before thus ur illusion of having more raider camp opportunities will be shattered the moment they decide youre at all significant theyll just toss in the lyksae brigade if they dont have aggro packs of (non)local megafauna kill u off first |
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Apr 22, 2015 13:23:33 GMT -5
i am almost temptid 2 plae 2 see wat my2sidz iz talkyng about. it soundz lyke fun shit iz goyng on. also hoo carez tehy r kriminalz tehy r defektors with stayt sekritz. 2 refoose 2 acnowlidge teh valu uv kriminal skum on ur syde is sily.
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 22, 2015 13:43:16 GMT -5
Inb4 the outpost is an improved Cenyr, emphasize on the Wild West with no crimcode. The outpost becomes a hub for player interaction and several PC groups are based out if it. Allanak is deserted because legit players get tired of autists.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 13:57:25 GMT -5
Despite the best efforts of some parties, Nak will do okay as long as the Byn and rinth are there and aren't diddled with too much.
Kurac will probably grow as PCs are killed in Nak and have no other place with many other PCs to turn to besides Luir's and Storm. Used to be, Tuluk or tribal roles would provide some respite from having to run into the people your old char was friends or enemies with, and now Kurac will be an obvious choice for that kinda thing, which is a great thing IMO because Kurac embodies Armageddon - as long as it isn't being heavily tampered with, mind you - just as well if not more than the Byn does.
I wouldn't really rule out any occupations of Luir's, but that would be lame because Kurac and Luir's by themselves can be the roots of some really, really great stuff that makes Armageddon what it is.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 14:01:55 GMT -5
Allowing some civilian or non-Kuraci roles by introducing "a place to keep your shit" would probably help with the sudden void from Tuluk's closure, and additions to the Luir's market would help with the nerfing of a substantial portion of the game's coded "trade routes."
I don't really see them jumping up to make it easier to play indies in Luir's, though, with the efforts to bottleneck people into Nak.
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