Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 16:25:42 GMT -5
The game used to function pretty well with two cities and multiple active tribes, both elven and human. It functioned because the players in the cities actually played the types of characters, and in the types of clans, that mattered. At the risk of sounding like some rose-tinted harping about the good old days, prior to 2006-07ish it was just a much healthier roleplaying milieu. People interacted more readily, more meaningfully, and with better results. In today's Armageddon, everyone's just playing their own game and the whole inter-player dynamic is all but gone. If they are to try and recreate this, it'll take much more than simply concentrating more players into the same place.
Let's say Allanak does get 20% more players (surely no more than that played in Tuluk), why should they do anything different from what the existing players were already doing, i.e. self-serving non-participatory play that contributes nothing to the setting? And I'm not blaming players for having become that way, it's a product of the way the game has come to be administrated. You can only try for so long before the constant obstacles and total lack of results makes you give up. And I don't see this changing, because an absolutely fundamental feature of the current staff's practices is a habitual opposition to allowing the playerbase to do and have what it wants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 16:28:14 GMT -5
RE: if the ship sinks, you sink with it.
Well, blaming people who post on this board for that is like blaming the dudes who wore wigs to escape into lifeboats for the whole damned wreck instead of, uhh, blaming the oblivious, spiteful clown who was manning the helm of the whole mother fucker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 16:37:03 GMT -5
Well, just to give the changes the benefit of the doubt for a second, an intra-city conflict might be better than inter-city conflict because it would naturally involve more PCs, including non-combat PCs.
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Post by sitbackandchillout on Apr 17, 2015 16:37:26 GMT -5
RE: you must think of yourself OOCly, we're all in the same boat, etc. That is a nice ideal to have - it's a nice concept. But when thinking of community, sorry, but the vast majority or interactions that I've had the staff for three years involved rude nitpicking, OOC bullshit, spiteful behavior, and all of that. You can't possibly expect players to see themselves as part of a "community" who acts for the "greater good" when the people in charge are treating players like shit, can you? Sorry, it's a nice thought, but community-oriented stuff is a two way street; you can't demand that players think of themselves in that context when they are constantly being shat on/harassed/all of that. Why not? You just going to roll over and watch the staff trash the place? You want to see the game die? If not, you're now part of the community  you don't have to do anything but you are now part of the group of players who sees the problem and could set about trying to fix it. All I'm saying... I don't expect the players to feel this way already, part of a community (although I think many of them do, hence their presence here in the first place), but I *am* *NOW* inviting them to, that was the purpose of my post. I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply saying that we now have the opportunity to do something as a collective, if you don't want to be involved that's cool too. As a side point, some of the strongest communities in history have become so *specifically* because they were being shat on/harassed/marginalized/victimized by those in power. Blacks in America being a case and point. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 16:39:32 GMT -5
Before, you had to organize RPTs to send PC representatives from their respective armies to whatever place to mash them against each other, and those clans plus whatever mercs got hired on the side were the only ones that got involved in the scuffle, for the most part. Now you have the potential of seeing a lot more collateral damage.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on Apr 17, 2015 16:42:41 GMT -5
As a side point, some of the strongest communities in history have become so *specifically* because they were being shat on/harassed/marginalized/victimized by those in power. Blacks in America being a case and point. ... nak power? |
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Post by sitbackandchillout on Apr 17, 2015 16:46:48 GMT -5
RE: if the ship sinks, you sink with it. Well, blaming people who post on this board for that is like blaming the dudes who wore wigs to escape into lifeboats for the whole damned wreck instead of, uhh, blaming the oblivious, spiteful clown who was manning the helm of the whole mother fucker. No one is apportioning anyone here the blame. Things are the way they are. The player base has no blame for this the staff do (If that's even useful. Blame is, generally, an almost-totally useless concept. It creates no action and shifts responsibility for changing the system away from the individual, rendering h(er)imself powerless). That doesn't then mean that the players can't do anything about it however. |
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Post by sitbackandchillout on Apr 17, 2015 16:47:26 GMT -5
As a side point, some of the strongest communities in history have become so *specifically* because they were being shat on/harassed/marginalized/victimized by those in power. Blacks in America being a case and point. ... nak power? Pure gold ^.^ |
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nobody
Clueless newb
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Post by nobody on Apr 17, 2015 19:00:54 GMT -5
I've been very quiet to this whole situation, but I think it sucks ass. Consolidating the player base will be good for the game at the level it is at now, but wtf happened? That's a rhetoric question btw. We all know what happened. Most of the so called changes to Tuluk, ruined Tuluk. Tuluk shouldn't have ever gotten so bad in the first place that it had to be shut down. It was thriving when there were no shitty blockades, when there was a Citizen's Call.. The Shadow Artist system was kinda always there? It just never had the official docs before. It needed work, but it went backwards, not forwards. When there was Raleris and Dragean about, why not have had the extra noble PC's then, instead of now? With the grunts there were back then, it could have been great. Some new efforts have been very promising, as in actually giving Legion PC's something to do than kill gortok, cilops, and tembo. That was the bat plot. Kryl haven't been utilised for some time. What are they doing? Are they a creature that is just happy to sit by in their own turf stroking there tails? That doesn't make much sense to me. Do Aliens just sit back and watch the world? Fuck no. They are the biggest rip off of Aliens... at least make them act like them as well. It's the hard life that people enjoy. It sucks to loose a character in a plot scene, but it draws people back, gets people talking. If Kryl pushed hard instead of this stupid war plot, that would have been more fun. The people who just happen to survive become the hero's... not some fucking stupid NPC. To me, the players should be the hero's. I've thought that way for a long time. While they can't always win, it is more fun for them to win. You can't have a game full of winning NPC's... If players aren't having fun, what's the point? Epic shit is cool every now and then, but who fucking cares that some NPC's fight it out if we don't even know who they are? We should know. Have these two been interacting with the player base at all? The world is dead, and only reacts when it's to punish. Going from interacting with clan leaders IG, to submitting reports has lost a lot of flavour in my eyes. Yes, it is easier for staff. I can see that, but it doesn't allow for a better story IG. The game was better some years ago because there was more flavour. There were more special roles to pick from, that you could earn IG, and didn't just have to wait a month in a queue for. I don't think I like the idea that full sorcs were removed either. I'm a fan of magick, high fantasy. I like magick weapons, spells, enchanting, all that jazz; being a D&D player for some years. I miss them being about, or hearing about them. Even there seems to be few whirans getting about in Tuluk to harass PC's, or Rukkians. The world is dying. Progress is happening too slowly. Hopefully the builder role can get some more work done. The whole place is in need of a major facelift. Update NPC's in noble and merchant houses. Update histories. Enlist the player base even. Put out submission requests for descriptions and the like. There are some really creative players who can handle it. Give some trust to the players. Don't treat them like shit. While some of you here are dicks  , your still passionate players, and do love the game. The great players are leaving... the game can't loose these people in today's age. Not with games like WOW and LOL, and a shit tonne of others. You know what would have probably been better for the game than closing Tuluk to help improve the player base? Sort out the issues staff have with players here. Be human. Have compassion. Try to be reasonable. Remove the bans on people who are just dicks, but not cheaters. I bet there are some bans on people here for one time they got angry and just lost it. That's rough. Sometimes we just need to vent... Like now. I'm done venting... |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 17, 2015 20:11:31 GMT -5
Instead what I'm saying is that Kurac got axed because it got too powerful right? If we as players look at things and see that Kurac is getting too powerful we could find a way of repositioning ourselves so as to make things come back "into-balance" (urgh, horrible phrase in this instance but it says what it needs to). There is no such thing as a powerful playerbase in this game. The most the players can do is kill each other or some unimportant NPCs. If all of the players in the entire game were in the Byn, they'd still be as inconsequential to moving plots as they would be as indies. The issue... actually, let me get into that with the next quote. Also it is possible that staff didn't *really* have an issue with player numbers (necessarily) but rather IG Kurac power and their only way to impact the IG power of Kurac was to ham-fistedly cap their numbers. Kuracs power could have been undermined by plots and players instead. Because throughout all this we're using player numbers to represent "balance" but really it's the IG POWER which is the important thing in the staffs eyes(I think?). World's got to match the docs and when it doesn't they see themselves as having a "right" to step in and make it so. I should be clear about this: when I say the staff were upset about Kurac gobbling up all the players, I mean that's what they were arguing on the IDB during part of my time on staff. It's not an interpretation of their motives based on stuff they did in-game. It's not a guess, a deduction, or an assumption. The staff -- and I mentioned this earlier in the thread -- refuse to grasp the fact that if people liked playing in a group or a civilization, they'd be doing so by choice. Staff need players in their clans/cities/plots to feel like there's a point to their staffing. Back when Kurac's burgeoning was going on, when the rest of the clans had players their staff seemed to have no idea what to do with them. These days if the STs know what to do with their players it doesn't matter, because the middle and upper management fuck it up for them. Players want activity that matters. Players want autonomy. Not so much in the sense of authority... rather they want to be able to make their own decisions in a way that makes sense for their character's personality, goals, and loyalties. If playing in a clan or a certain place means they can't do that, they won't play there. As a corollary, you can't consolidate/share the playerbase by closing things. I also wanted to address one other thing you mentioned about Kurac, which I'll do in my reply to jkarr... if they want more pc dispersal then its on them to find more creative and realistic ig ways of attracting pcs to other places than destroying cities, making ooc clan caps, and crippling the ic autonomy of 'trusted' leader (and otherwise) pcs in a feeble and clumsy attempt at damage control for a non-problem ('balanced' pc dispersal) Testify! There used to be a gently enforced rule where if you played in a clan for a long time and died, you didn't just rejoin. You would put a character or two and/or a couple months between your current character and that clan. So when Kurac was huge, when people died, they'd usually jump into an indy or try joining a competitive/cooperative clan. Since Kurac had a semi-antagonistic relationship with Allanak (which got much worse after the Rebellion), Kurac's activity spawned Arm of the Dragon activity and Guild activity. Because there were a lot of crafters, indies pretty much had dedicated buyers with deep pockets in Nak, Tuluk, RSV, and Luir's. Let's say Allanak does get 20% more players (surely no more than that played in Tuluk), why should they do anything different from what the existing players were already doing, i.e. self-serving non-participatory play that contributes nothing to the setting? And I'm not blaming players for having become that way, it's a product of the way the game has come to be administrated. You can only try for so long before the constant obstacles and total lack of results makes you give up. And I don't see this changing, because an absolutely fundamental feature of the current staff's practices is a habitual opposition to allowing the playerbase to do and have what it wants. Agreed. The staff have done a good job conditioning the players to only want shit that doesn't matter because it's the only thing they can get. Custom bullshit. Money. The appearance of status. The only people who give a damn about those things are people who don't do anything meaningful with other players. All of that crap is self-oriented. You never see people do things like they used to pre-2007. People used to play characters with ambition, try to move the playerbase in patterns that favored their character's plans, and (mostly) did so without the staff constantly trying to interject themselves into the situation so they can take credit for it happening. |
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Post by sitbackandchillout on Apr 18, 2015 6:02:29 GMT -5
You hear about this in game or GDB?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 6:30:57 GMT -5
It's on the rumor board in Tuluk of people vanishing and shit. Those from the war, ect.
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Post by jcarter on Apr 18, 2015 9:11:12 GMT -5
i broke off a post about tuluk spoiler closure plot line into a separate thread in the spoiler ofurm
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tedium
Clueless newb
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Post by tedium on Apr 18, 2015 15:52:51 GMT -5
Kryl haven't been utilised for some time. What are they doing? Are they a creature that is just happy to sit by in their own turf stroking there tails? That doesn't make much sense to me. Do Aliens just sit back and watch the world? Fuck no. They are the biggest rip off of Aliens... at least make them act like them as well. It's the hard life that people enjoy. It sucks to loose a character in a plot scene, but it draws people back, gets people talking. If Kryl pushed hard instead of this stupid war plot, that would have been more fun. The people who just happen to survive become the hero's... not some fucking stupid NPC. Kryl, which are a completely original fantasy (not Sci-Fi!) species created by Arm Staff, aren't attacking because they're afraid. I've linked a log of the RPT. |
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Apr 21, 2015 19:46:06 GMT -5
Wow.
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you don't have to do anything but you are now part of the group of players who sees the problem and could set about trying to fix it. All I'm saying...
, your still passionate players, and do love the game. The great players are leaving... the game can't loose these people in today's age. Not with games like WOW and LOL, and a shit tonne of others.
