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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:04:42 GMT -5
Even though I agree with just about every sentiment that Kronibas has on the event, and finds his viewpoint entirely fair, it's also worth keeping in mind that this was not the event that made him quit. It didn't make anyone quit. One of the charms of Armageddon is unfair murder-machine RPTs from time to time. We don't mind, because a small part of us likes watching it happen to other people. Of course staff goes about it in an unsubtle, heavy-handed way. Of course some of them take a certain sadistic pleasure from it. But this shadowboard wouldn't exist if this was the dealbreaker for most of us. Even if we don't view these events through rose-tinted glasses, I get the impression that even kronibas is ultimately accepting of it being basically an arm cliche that has happened numerous times.It's fun to bitch about, and while I do wish that staff would use realistic challenges and play it it to the hilt instead of loading in Murder-Death-Kill Machines and then having to be merciful...Of the top twenty things that have made me want to quit Arm, having an over-statted NPC assassin sicced on me isn't even in the top twenty. And I doubt it is for anyone in this thread. No one has played Armageddon for any length of time who isn't numb to a bit of unfairness in their deaths. It's only been posted about a bunch here because some seem intent on placing the blame squarely on the players. Even if you're okay with dying, most men will balk at being blamed for it when magic meks, psionics and pike-wielding muls are afoot. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the majority of people who don't leave just because they're bored/moved on, leave because of bad interactions with staff more so than anything that happens in-game to their character(though that does happen too). In-game there's always room for more suspension of disbelief. Outside of the game the best you can do is delude yourself when staff does something stupid. "Oh he was just having a bad day." Because taking it to them, trying to call them out, that's never going to work. At best all you will get is a half-hearted apology and no recompense, like they did when some of us got pissed off with how they handled Kron. "We've already apologized and said things could be handled better, what more do you want." I believe was a quote from Talia around that time. The sort of bromides that tend to fan the flames more than snuff them out. |
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delerak
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:07:29 GMT -5
sirra likes this
Post by delerak on Apr 24, 2015 20:07:29 GMT -5
If I was running an RPT like that? Firstly I wouldn't have attacked anyone. I'd let the combat play out because that is what the code is for. If the NPCs needed animating okay but generally that shouldn't be the case. It was a mission to kill off northern guerilla fighters? Come the fuck on. Where was the militia? Where was the STAFF support to the whole thing. It was players vs staff it was it was.
If I was running it I would have animated units of militia to actually go do their fucking job. Firstly why the fuck would the Arm hire the Byn anyway? Just because they have players doesn't mean you automatically hire them to do every little thing. I detest that about Arm. It's as if the virtual world is completely ignored by player/staff alike at times. The militia is the most powerful force in the Vrun Driath and they never get animated to do a damn thing.
But I digress this isn't about what I would do, but since you asked I felt the need to oblige.
At the end of the day the whole plot was bullshit, it wasn't realistic in anyway, it was some staffers pet little project and if anyone got in the way of it they died. Like I said before there were people who came close to killing those jade NPCs at some points and got completely fucked by staff commands. Because god forbid something doesn't play out according to the script they have written. What a joke of a game to be honest, I'm actually thinking about it deeply and feel ashamed that I ever wanted to go back and play there. They can have it, I have better things to do with my time.
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:13:52 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:13:52 GMT -5
I like how a bunch of fucking idiots attacked the mul and Pike joined in because he's a dumbshit half-giant and got killed for it. You guys basically murdered Pike. And right after Pike died, most of the guys were like... Well, he still spared Albie. Guess Pike doesn't count. Haha, good stuff. Very fun rpt. He spared everyone who he didn't kill instantly, not just Albie. Pike was unlucky. And that Mul was eventually killed. |
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:18:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:18:35 GMT -5
If I was running an RPT like that? Firstly I wouldn't have attacked anyone. I'd let the combat play out because that is what the code is for. If the NPCs needed animating okay but generally that shouldn't be the case. It was a mission to kill off northern guerilla fighters? Come the fuck on. Where was the militia? Where was the STAFF support to the whole thing. It was players vs staff it was it was. If I was running it I would have animated units of militia to actually go do their fucking job. Firstly why the fuck would the Arm hire the Byn anyway? Just because they have players doesn't mean you automatically hire them to do every little thing. I detest that about Arm. It's as if the virtual world is completely ignored by player/staff alike at times. The militia is the most powerful force in the Vrun Driath and they never get animated to do a damn thing. But I digress this isn't about what I would do, but since you asked I felt the need to oblige. At the end of the day the whole plot was bullshit, it wasn't realistic in anyway, it was some staffers pet little project and if anyone got in the way of it they died. Like I said before there were people who came close to killing those jade NPCs at some points and got completely fucked by staff commands. Because god forbid something doesn't play out according to the script they have written. What a joke of a game to be honest, I'm actually thinking about it deeply and feel ashamed that I ever wanted to go back and play there. They can have it, I have better things to do with my time. Well, like I said, one of my favorite experiences on Armageddon. Different strokes for different folks. |
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:21:13 GMT -5
Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 24, 2015 20:21:13 GMT -5
I like how a bunch of fucking idiots attacked the mul and Pike joined in because he's a dumbshit half-giant and got killed for it. You guys basically murdered Pike. And right after Pike died, most of the guys were like... Well, he still spared Albie. Guess Pike doesn't count. Haha, good stuff. Very fun rpt. He spared everyone who he didn't kill instantly, not just Albie. Pike was unlucky. And that Mul was eventually killed. I understand, but Pike's death was pretty ridiculous. Not complaining, just noting. I know rpts are hectic as fuck. |
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:24:17 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:24:17 GMT -5
Even though I agree with just about every sentiment that Kronibas has on the event, and finds his viewpoint entirely fair, it's also worth keeping in mind that this was not the event that made him quit. It didn't make anyone quit. One of the charms of Armageddon is unfair murder-machine RPTs from time to time. We don't mind, because a small part of us likes watching it happen to other people. Of course staff goes about it in an unsubtle, heavy-handed way. Of course some of them take a certain sadistic pleasure from it. But this shadowboard wouldn't exist if this was the dealbreaker for most of us. Even if we don't view these events through rose-tinted glasses, I get the impression that even kronibas is ultimately accepting of it being basically an arm cliche that has happened numerous times.It's fun to bitch about, and while I do wish that staff would use realistic challenges and play it it to the hilt instead of loading in Murder-Death-Kill Machines and then having to be merciful...Of the top twenty things that have made me want to quit Arm, having an over-statted NPC assassin sicced on me isn't even in the top twenty. And I doubt it is for anyone in this thread. No one has played Armageddon for any length of time who isn't numb to a bit of unfairness in their deaths. It's only been posted about a bunch here because some seem intent on placing the blame squarely on the players. Even if you're okay with dying, most men will balk at being blamed for it when magic meks, psionics and pike-wielding muls are afoot. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the majority of people who don't leave just because they're bored/moved on, leave because of bad interactions with staff more so than anything that happens in-game to their character(though that does happen too). In-game there's always room for more suspension of disbelief. Outside of the game the best you can do is delude yourself when staff does something stupid. "Oh he was just having a bad day." Because taking it to them, trying to call them out, that's never going to work. At best all you will get is a half-hearted apology and no recompense, like they did when some of us got pissed off with how they handled Kron. "We've already apologized and said things could be handled better, what more do you want." I believe was a quote from Talia around that time. The sort of bromides that tend to fan the flames more than snuff them out. No, they really don't care - because it would be too much work. And people just aren't willing to put the work in on Armageddon when it comes to some things. They can be like ha ha I'm a volunteer I'm doing my thing... No, shut the hell up, we are ALL volunteers. Being a volunteer for a certain part of the game like staffing does not automatically exalt someone above the rabble - no, on Armageddon, we are all actually the rabble, it is too small of a game for the divisions that they would like to continue to impose. The problem stems from trying to treat certain aspects of the playerbase from the position of an authoritarian dictatorship when, actually, that shit doesn't work - at all. Not any more. So, I think some people ought to humble themselves and get OFF IMM chat and INTO the actual trenches. If they give a shit about their game, anyway. |
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:35:23 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:35:23 GMT -5
Heh, I'm usually with you guys, right up until you start taking things personally and treating it like some sort of totalitarian regime. I can't imagine getting this angry over any game's staff/creators and I've dealt with some BAD ones. I can't help but think if I felt like you guys feel, Armageddon would never receive a second thought. I'd have forgotten it and moved on a long time ago. At least I'd like to think so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:43:56 GMT -5
I think it is less of a totalitarian regime and more of a thing where faulty notions are taken as par for the course simply because dissent had been suppressed for so long that certain people took certain attitudes they once possessed for granted, like indifference to the playerbase at large. However, time and time again on Arm, it has been proven that when staff members overstep boundaries, organization rises against them. It's just a little... Different these days. For lots of reasons. It doesn't make it any less essential to the process, so...
I think there are just some people who maybe make great Armsgeddon admins but really aren't dialed in on the whole "people" or "human" side of the deal, which is unfortunate considering how small the Arma community actually is.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Apr 24, 2015 20:45:08 GMT -5
Most have. The majority of people who post here do so out of loyalty to other players not the game itself. If you'd ever been in the military you'd understand how you can hate and love something. There is a certain bond between soldiers/marines/sailors, you can hate the Navy but love your fellow sailors. The same can certainly apply to those who you've had the pleasure to roleplay with over the years at Arm. Arm honestly isn't that great of a game, it's always the players people that make something special.
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:51:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:51:04 GMT -5
Very well said, Delerak.
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 20:58:40 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 20:58:40 GMT -5
That makes a lot of sense, Delerak. I completely agree that the players make the game. I just don't think staff or the way the game is run has ever gotten in the way of that for me. It's always felt separate. The politics, decisions, and way the game is run hardly ever effects how I play the game. It has never felt personal to me. It always felt like them doing what they think is best, even when I disagree with them.
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 21:06:18 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 21:06:18 GMT -5
That makes a lot of sense, Delerak. I completely agree that the players make the game. I just don't think staff or the way the game is run has ever gotten in the way of that for me. It's always felt separate. The politics, decisions, and way the game is run hardly ever effects how I play the game. It has never felt personal to me. It always felt like them doing what they think is best, even when I disagree with them. Doing what they think is best has resulted in Tuluk being closed and other problems. I mean, they are people too - and they make mistakes. And if this forum is what it takes to call people out on mistakes, fine. They have called me out enough in private for me to not feel bad about it. When people set themselves up as critics of other players on IC and OOC levels, they should naturally expect criticism in return. I don't think it is out of the question or even a disservice to the game as a whole when warranted criticism results in palpable changes... It has happened more than some would care to admit. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 21:07:58 GMT -5
Post by delerak on Apr 24, 2015 21:07:58 GMT -5
What boggles my mind is the refusal to parley. Are we really so bad that staff don't even want to talk to us?
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 21:12:09 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 21:12:09 GMT -5
I love that Tuluk is being closed, you aren't winning me over with that one.  But I agree, criticisms, complaints, this entire forum. It serves a purpose and I believe is a good thing, even if there's a lot of people here I disagree with. Which is why I decided to start posting again, under my real moniker. The only thing I dislike about this forum is the possibilities for recent spoilers ruining plots. But there's at least a spoilers section, so I can't complain. |
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 21:21:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 21:21:49 GMT -5
What boggles my mind is the refusal to parley. Are we really so bad that staff don't even want to talk to us? Eh. If you want to talk with them they have a forum to talk, but you probably don't like the though of being censored unfairly. For that they've had player-staff meetings open to everyone, they're rare, but if you don't use the opportunity to bring things up that's not their fault.(For instance, in the last player-staff meeting Case lobbied really hard for this forum and the opinions of people on it, saying they should be ignored.) They also initiated a ban amnesty a while back so anyone banned from the game could come back. I think you expecting them to come over here and start a discussion is at least as silly as them expecting you to come to their forums and start a discussion. Neither is really going to happen. You don't like the idea of them having ultimate say on what gets deleted or moderated, and they, likely, wouldn't want Jcarter to have that same say. Also, a large portion of the people here are over there anyways, and vice versa. There's plenty of overlap in discussion, and you have to know they read this stuff, and it affects their decisions. |
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