Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 16:52:17 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 16:52:17 GMT -5
I just don't think they did it as something fun for players to participate in... There are multiple reasons as to why they would create this RPT with the intent of killing a bunch of PCs:
1. The Byn was too large and they had almost 0 control over what happened in it - unlike clans rife with sponsored roles. The Byn only had one sponsored character at the time but was far more popular than other clans with multiple sponsored characters.
2. Multiple shadow board players were in the clan at the time. If I could pick up on this from posts they were making, then I'm sure the staff could, too. Undoubtedly this informed their decision, at least in part.
3. The introduction or "zomg new clans" in Tuluk, like the new templarate and the shartists, would have made the prospect of killing some chars and hoping they went northward appealing.
4. The fact that "the wrong people" were in leadership or demi leadership positions in what was unquestionably the most popular clan at the time.
5. Spitefulness, OOC grudges, and jealousy.
6. The fact that staff metagaming is evident in other places around this time, like from feedback given by RRR in discussing how his plots as a Naki templar were tampered with and outright curtailed.
So yeah, I figured all six of those led to the decision, plus more reasons that we may have gone over already but are slipping my mind at the moment.
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Post by sirra on Apr 24, 2015 17:13:09 GMT -5
What are you basing what you think the staff's motivations were on? I haven't read all 16 pages. I wouldn't doubt it's a possibility, it just seems like they could have gone about it another way. ICly I thought it was the Templarate trying to get a bunch of Bynners killed, just because it seemed like it should be the AoD's job to kill raiders/lawbreakers, not mercs. lol. On some level at least, most Byn wipes begin when a templar looks at the Byn, then looks at the sorry-ass AoD, then looks at the Byn again. |
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:18:20 GMT -5
Post by sirra on Apr 24, 2015 17:18:20 GMT -5
As for staff trying to kill people off? They purposefully left people alive that they could have killed. The Jade Crosses NPC's all basically had Mercy on. Also they purposefully split the NPC forces up, when in reality the Crag-faced Giant up top could have murdered everyone up there after he knocked out Albie(pretty sure it was Albie, if not another long lived well-known Giant), instead he dropped down into the hole to fight others there, giving me and a couple others a chance to face off against the chalk skull-masked NPC and one of their magicker/mindbenders. I just gotta ask. Is it really so merciful or benevolent of them to spare a few poor fuckers, when it 'could' have been worse, when they basically statted their NPCs into unstoppable killing machines? (RE: the giant that knocked out albie). Because how it comes off as...They were going super easy and super merciful, and still inflicted a higher casualty ratio on the Byn than Kitchener's Battalions suffered. It just further underlines how the Byn had no real chance in that event anyways. I'd rather them use more realistically statted NPCs and give it their best shot. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:24:57 GMT -5
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Post by delerak on Apr 24, 2015 17:24:57 GMT -5
Nothing further needs to be posted. Carry on with the fuckery.
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279 
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:28:19 GMT -5
Post by malkeninthemiddle on Apr 24, 2015 17:28:19 GMT -5
As someone who has been in a lot of Byn-related carnage and other related carnage over my Arm career, it seems like Staff always give you a "warning shot" and that most leaders either ignore that warning or feel over-confident that they can take on whatever is coming because they have a couple of half giants with them and some experienced fighters. Then that "warning shot" turns into a wave of enemies and even then some leaders will stick it through or start yelling orders that nobody follows and the spamfest mess starts. Then comes the real bad stuff and at this point you are partially to blame for what's awaiting you because Staff feels like they gave you enough warning but at the same time they're not going to let you march your little army through gith infested land just because they don't want to kill every single one of you. Byn often gets the brunt of it because they are also the ones that mostly go out to fight stuff and get stuff from enemy lands.. You don't often see a Kadius wipe because Kadius rarely goes on kryl shell hunts. They hire the Byn for that.
Now I have no idea what went on with that "Byn wipe" but I've seen so many Byn wipes in the past that I came to realize that very often the leaders are to blame first. Shit happens. Shit happens even more when you're in the Byn.
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:41:42 GMT -5
Post by sirra on Apr 24, 2015 17:41:42 GMT -5
Now I have no idea what went on with that "Byn wipe" but I've seen so many Byn wipes in the past that I came to realize that very often the leaders are to blame first. Shit happens. Shit happens even more when you're in the Byn. It wouldn't be Armageddon if the T'zai Byn didn't habitually get themselves killed. And no one is talking about those times when staff loads up ye olde Gith or Kryl A thru Z and lets them have at it. There are particular incidents where they introduce enemies seemingly out of nowhere that are so powerfully statted that it's more a matter of how much staff 'holds back' than anything else. I contend that being grateful for them holding back is bullshit. They ought to use more realistically statted NPCs, or at least resist the urge to glance at everyone's sheets and make their temp character safely better than the best present, and then do their best. There's nothing I despise more than them having to 'restrain themselves'. Fuck you, if the situation really warranted that kind've nuclear response, then have at it and kill us all. Don't just kill our best and brightest and leave the cowards and slackers behind. Go balls deep. If staff ever needs to 'hold back', then they probably went overboard to begin with. |
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:43:11 GMT -5
delerak likes this
Post by malkeninthemiddle on Apr 24, 2015 17:43:11 GMT -5
What is the context of that particular Byn event, though? Where did it happen and what was the Byn trying to achieve by being there? I'm curious.
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:46:25 GMT -5
Post by sirra on Apr 24, 2015 17:46:25 GMT -5
What is the context of that particular Byn event, though? Where did it happen and what was the Byn trying to achieve by being there? I'm curious. Probably some bullshit. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:50:50 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 17:50:50 GMT -5
As for staff trying to kill people off? They purposefully left people alive that they could have killed. The Jade Crosses NPC's all basically had Mercy on. Also they purposefully split the NPC forces up, when in reality the Crag-faced Giant up top could have murdered everyone up there after he knocked out Albie(pretty sure it was Albie, if not another long lived well-known Giant), instead he dropped down into the hole to fight others there, giving me and a couple others a chance to face off against the chalk skull-masked NPC and one of their magicker/mindbenders. I just gotta ask. Is it really so merciful or benevolent of them to spare a few poor fuckers, when it 'could' have been worse, when they basically statted their NPCs into unstoppable killing machines? (RE: the giant that knocked out albie). Because how it comes off as...They were going super easy and super merciful, and still inflicted a higher casualty ratio on the Byn than Kitchener's Battalions suffered. It just further underlines how the Byn had no real chance in that event anyways. I'd rather them use more realistically statted NPCs and give it their best shot. No, I don't think they were trying to be merciful or benevolent. I think they were trying to be fair after they realized most of us were going to die without the help of the "scouts". I don't think figuring out the relative strength of a team of players is very easy. We had just encountered a magicked-up Mekillot and only took a casualty or two from foolish players, otherwise kicked that things ass. When you think of things relatively a massive group can take on almost anything, if they're well prepared and know what's coming. But everyone got split up, so I imagine they did their best to keep things deadly without being overwhelming by splitting up the NPC's to accomodate that. In any case I liked how deadly it was. I think most people are upset because they died. I'm upset I died later in a shitty way instead of there at that event. Your miles may vary. I'm interested in a death-count from that event. Most of the deaths were from newer PC's. Sefaj and Harar were the most notable deaths. Anyone know what the total count is? I wonder what % of the total died. There were a lot of PC's. |
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 17:56:28 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 17:56:28 GMT -5
What is the context of that particular Byn event, though? Where did it happen and what was the Byn trying to achieve by being there? I'm curious. Around the time there were raids from the Jade Crosses on people between Red Storm and Allanak. There were multiple rumors on the tavern boards spanning a few months before the Byn finally got hired by the Templarate to go out and kill them all. It happened in the camp south-east of Allanak. Near Red Storm East. I'm not sure what the raids were like from the PC side of things. Apparenty lots of super-rangers sniping people with maxed archery? Something like that. |
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 18:00:10 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 18:00:10 GMT -5
The psionic raiders were an imm device from the very start. Apparently they had been into it with the Byn for a while before I joined, and then one day we ran into them in Red Storm. I thought they were PCs at first, but it was evident by how they maneuvered in the desert without mounts that they were NPCs, probably supernatural ones. Mind benders, it turned out.
So, within a month or so of us encountering them, we were sent on an imm-built RPT to kill them at a tent camp southeast of the city, I guess nearby where the old Madrek camp was. And yeah, the rest is history.
It wasn't like a group of Bynners decided to wander around and explore and walked into some crazy shit, or fell down a hole, or off a cliff... That's how lots of groups get fucked up, but no, this was an imm plot from start to finish. And I believe there were ulterior motives.
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 18:09:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 18:09:54 GMT -5
Harar didn't die then. But he did bandage your dude.
Sefaj, Pike, Patchy, and several runners died. So like 7. I just have a phone atm so it's not convenient for me to look back over the log.
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 18:12:34 GMT -5
Post by malkeninthemiddle on Apr 24, 2015 18:12:34 GMT -5
If they were psionic raiders wouldn't they have been warned from the start that the Byn would be coming after them and prepare adequately? Were you guys aware that you were going after psionic raiders? I'm just trying to understand the situation.. If I can take -any- excuses over "Staff did it out of spite", I will, because I still refuse to believe to this day that they would do something so spiteful or to clear up the Byn of players. So I'm trying to understand more of this IC situation but it seems like a really complex, but pretty interesting one.
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Deleted
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 18:19:01 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 18:19:01 GMT -5
It wasn't just spite, it was spite in conjunction with multiple other factors. Not just spite by itself, and that distinction is important. No, they wouldn't do it for the /sole/ purpose of spite.
i don't really know a lot about the plot behind the whole thing, actually. I'm sure there is an interesting backstory, but well, I know absolutely nothing of it, except: the raiders tried to kill the Byn outside Storm, so the Byn figured out where their camp was, somehow, and then attacked it.
Yes, they almost undoubtedly used psionics to prepare for the Byn.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 18:23:42 GMT -5
Post by delerak on Apr 24, 2015 18:23:42 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if you have good intentions going into it or not. Incompetence is incompetence. The whole thing was handled like shit and they paid for it by creating an even worse air of disgruntlement between players and staff. If that's even possible.
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