Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516 
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 9:20:42 GMT -5
Post by Jeshin on Apr 24, 2015 9:20:42 GMT -5
The #1 killer of Tuluki faithful and sponsored legion roles is probably overestimating their abilities based on pc to pc sparring. At least in my experience as a 90% of the time tuluki player.
EDIT - Also the #1 killer of people following faithful and sponsored roles in tuluk is also their stupidity... I'll post up a snippit of a Faithful getting his ass owned by a whiran after he stupidly went to Luirs.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 9:25:14 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 9:25:14 GMT -5
Fair enough, but that was probably by accident, not design.
It was not accidental that a shitload of PCs died in the Byn RPT, and what I have been trying to convey is that there are OOC reasons for why this happened - and, if the OOC reasons are similar to the same OOC reasons that have guided some serious fuckery on the game in recent history, then those guiding ways of thinking are, at best, extremely suspect.
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 553
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 11:15:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Patuk on Apr 24, 2015 11:15:47 GMT -5
1) Do you believe in clan caps on the number of people allowed to be recruited or join? Y/N
Yes. The obvious example is the AoD, which is a military organisation and has no business exceeding that size twice. And even in the case of a clan like the Byn, I'd rather not see half the playerbase join the same clan.
2) Do you believe that the Byn should always have loose hiring policies or policies determined by the Sarge with no ooc directives from staff? Y/N
Tricky. I don't think it's good for the game to have the Byn be retardedly huge, but on the other hand, there are way better manners to deal with it than murder RPTs or NPC animation. If you have three sergeants with twelve troopers each running around, killing half these people off is too blunt. The proper question to ask is who the fuck is not hiring all these goddamn people. Am I really to believe that there are no wealthy merchants, nobles, or Templars who would like to hire experienced fighters? That nobody had the basic common sense to coerce/bribe/whatever a person or two so they could get good minions? If any clan gets huge beyond compare for whatever reason, there's way better options to solve it than by dropping fifty gith on them.
3) Do you believe that contracts and RPTs should be 'reasonable' and not pre-planned murder jobs? Not whether they seem to be, just if an RPT is designed to kill off members of a clan than is that not okay with you? Explain?
I don't think any RPT should be going on to cull people, unless it's of the sort where a leader goes, 'guys, I could store, but could you instead let me go down fighting?' or somesuch. That said.. I also think that when it's ICly appropriate, staff shouldn't purposefully hold everything back, either. Should a sergeant be dumb enough to take on a contract involving his unit storming the gith mesa, for example, I wouldn't blame staff if they'd all die in the process.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 11:37:40 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 11:37:40 GMT -5
They didn't have to heavy handedly kill a bunch of PCs. Like I said, we were actively trying to branch out, but the staff did not come up with the framework to do this until AFTER that Byn group was scattered to the winds and Void.
Why would they smash a clan like that and THEN come up with the framework to supplement them?
Because they realized that they probably made a mistake? I honestly have no idea what their thinking was, but I think that whatever the line of thinking was, they didn't actually spend a lot of time thinking about it.
Make no mistake: I think the docs for clan building are, while not perfect, at least a good start... But why did they kill that clan and THEN put in the framework for clans?
Why? That's what I want to know.
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Post by visiblyupsetbyyou on Apr 24, 2015 13:13:45 GMT -5
Pretty sure that Sefaj was sponsored. Only ever interacted with him once, but don't recall seeing him until after a Byn Sergeant role call. As far as I know from when a bunch died, it happened because they bit off far more than they could chew when they took a contract. Maybe they were coerced into it? I'm not sure. You may very well be right (about Sefaj being sponsored), and if so then I will amend what I said. sefaj was indeed sponsored |
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 13:17:31 GMT -5
jkarr likes this
Post by RogueRougeRanger on Apr 24, 2015 13:17:31 GMT -5
Quick question for everyone reading this thread.. 1) Do you believe in clan caps on the number of people allowed to be recruited or join? Y/N 2) Do you believe that the Byn should always have loose hiring policies or policies determined by the Sarge with no ooc directives from staff? Y/N 3) Do you believe that contracts and RPTs should be 'reasonable' and not pre-planned murder jobs? Not whether they seem to be, just if an RPT is designed to kill off members of a clan than is that not okay with you? Explain? Why do I ask those 3 simple questions to establish a base line of dialogue. If you're someone who believes in clan caps than there's no point in arguing them with you. If you're someone who believes that the occasional clan clearing RPT is totally fine than there's no point in arguing their downsides with you. If you're someone who believes the staff should ooc direct IC hiring policies in a clan that isn't having a membership problem or breaking docs by hiring a bunch of gickers than there's no point in arguing that with you. But if you do agree on some of those points than we can at least agree on those and quibble about whether this RPT or that RPT was indeed orchestrated to clear the decks for a clan or not. As I stated in the beginning of this thread at one point (according to OOC friends in the byn) there was a staff directive to change hiring policies. Now how long that lasted and for which time period it was, I can't specify because I can't recall. But I would imagine it was near around when I posted it. These are very clarifying questions, Jeshin. I applaud your insight. My answers: 1. No. Clan caps are a demonstrably bad idea. Players should play what's fun for them within the IC reality of the world. Clan caps are an OOC constraint, not an IC constraint, and thus should be avoided. 2. No. The Byn should do what makes sense IC'ly, and if that means giving IC discretion to the PC sarge then so be it. 3. Yes. The outcomes of RPTs should be up to the PCs involved, not predetermined by the staff. |
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 13:34:10 GMT -5
delerak likes this
Post by grumble on Apr 24, 2015 13:34:10 GMT -5
i waz on teh kontrakt were they kild my fayvrit sarge with spydurz. and evry1 else on teh kontrakt exsept albie and 1 stump. sarge niall waz teh guy hoo taught me 2 play and i was rele sad. i wuld hav livd but i 4got abowt wildurnes kwit. fuk all do knot fuking 4get u kan do taht itz leet ranjur cheatz. it sukz 2 see a wype. i hatd sefaj so much i sent hym kudos wen he dide. few playrs hav nurchured so much loathyng in me and he plaide an exsepshunal vilain. i fuking selebrated and did a hapy danse wen u fukerz got nuked. but i dont theenk tehy kild enuf byners 2 plese me. if tehy did tho hoo wuld b left to despies?
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164 
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 15:36:10 GMT -5
delerak likes this
Post by tedium on Apr 24, 2015 15:36:10 GMT -5
Clan numbers wouldn't be a problem if getting food was harder. If clans had a target player number and were allowed finite rations based on that target number, the clan's wealth, and their willingness to feed their underlings, clans that go well over the soft cap will suffer for it. It would be up to the leaders to solve the problem of how to feed their people, and up to those people to decide whether it's worth staying.
But not only are clans infinite ration vendors, hunting is easy. If Armageddon had a reckless elven tribe that raided people in the desert, or maybe some sort of elven tribe that was concerned about the over hunting of stocks and the delicate balance of nature, those Byn sent by Sargent on a hunt would run into trouble. When someone dies trying to feed the rats nest of runners that Sargent keeps you will surely have conflict within the clan. Too bad it doesn't!
There's no need to spawn NPCs on players when players want to fill that role themselves, but are being denied the opportunity. Players just need a reason to be at odds with each other. What in history is guaranteed to make groups of people fight? Resource shortages. Zalanthas is a barren desert and it should feel like one.
Side note: Staff have announced that they want high player density for "complex plots", so I don't understand why they mow down clans that have high player density. Maybe they think that spawning NPCs on players creates complex RP.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 15:40:38 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 15:40:38 GMT -5
Pretty sure that Sefaj was sponsored. Only ever interacted with him once, but don't recall seeing him until after a Byn Sergeant role call. As far as I know from when a bunch died, it happened because they bit off far more than they could chew when they took a contract. Maybe they were coerced into it? I'm not sure. You may very well be right (about Sefaj being sponsored), and if so then I will amend what I said. Sefaj was a sponsored role, it was almost impossible for him to level his skills that he would purposefully fight drunk in order too try too get his skills up. Now I don't mean too side with Kronibas but he is/was right. It was a slaughter RPT because even Sefaj knew that he was going too die as well as a bunch of other people. Which is why I purposefully avoided the RPT. Yah i'm a god damn coward. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 15:40:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 15:40:54 GMT -5
Very good catch with that last paragraph, tedium. That is a huge and valid point - 100% spot on.
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Post by sirra on Apr 24, 2015 16:01:17 GMT -5
I've always thought free food and water in clans was handled with far too much largess. Would it be so horrible if clans had to send someone down to the grocer once a week with 500 sids to buy stuff to eat, and then had someone cook it up?
But noooo...free steaks for all. As many steaks as you can stuff in your big fat fucking mouth.
Some of the best times in the Byn was finding creative ways to keep everyone from dying of thirst.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 16:04:23 GMT -5
I'm surprised people didn't like this event. I loved that RPT. I loved that so many people died. I loved that it felt dangerous. I played Cueron in that event. The mouthy runner who thought everything was a trap(and it was). I honestly can't believe people were miffed by that RPT. I wish my character died then and there, instead of alone to wezers a month later.
As for people knowing they would die? I call bullshit. There were a lot of ways that event could have be handled better by players to be made more survivable. The reason so many people died is because the group was split up, and we didn't expect a hole with 15 scorpions at the bottom of the pit. And then the split up group split up even more when half climbed out of the pit and half stayed.
As for staff trying to kill people off? They purposefully left people alive that they could have killed. The Jade Crosses NPC's all basically had Mercy on. Also they purposefully split the NPC forces up, when in reality the Crag-faced Giant up top could have murdered everyone up there after he knocked out Albie(pretty sure it was Albie, if not another long lived well-known Giant), instead he dropped down into the hole to fight others there, giving me and a couple others a chance to face off against the chalk skull-masked NPC and one of their magicker/mindbenders.
It was one of my favorite RPT's(next to Gith invasion and Gith Wars). I don't care that it was contrived, or meaningless, or basically just a kill-quest. It was fucking awesome, hectic, filled with danger well put together by staff. I loved the environmental emotes they had of the camp burning down while everyone was trying to scavenge what they could and limp back home.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 16:16:05 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 16:16:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that it was really good, but the intent of the whole deal is what bothers me.
It's kinda like having sex with a girl who only wants you for drugs or money. Fun as hell, maybe, but empty seeming in the end.
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 16:17:06 GMT -5
Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Apr 24, 2015 16:17:06 GMT -5
Hmph....
Staff runs an OOCly motivated plot to cull a burgeoning clan population and nobody panics.
I let OOC factors and motivations effect my PC's decisions and everyone loses their minds.
Double-standards, man. :/
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Byn
Apr 24, 2015 16:40:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 16:40:55 GMT -5
What are you basing what you think the staff's motivations were on? I haven't read all 16 pages. I wouldn't doubt it's a possibility, it just seems like they could have gone about it another way. ICly I thought it was the Templarate trying to get a bunch of Bynners killed, just because it seemed like it should be the AoD's job to kill raiders/lawbreakers, not mercs.
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