Are you creating your own plot?

lol did u skip ur meds?

theres a difference between 'hoping' for and and outright demanding or expecting those things from staff. nice try at conflating the ideas even tho its a key term difference that ur deliberately merging to try and ferry ur baseless spamvolunteer counter claim on me, because noting that ppl who do shit becuz they want to and not cuz they feel pressured by players to do shit means ur automatically a volunteerism nazi (this is the allornone categorizing shit i mentioned in my earlier post)

u can have a seat now

I'm not conflating anything, and if anything, you are the one suggesting that people are making demands, as I've not seen any of those here. How bout prove your point or shut the fuck up, or simply admit how weak your point is and that the only thing you have at this point is to try and imply that people are saying something they aren't because more people are on these boards than play the damn game every week, jkarr? Ya scurred?

If I'm playing, I'm creating my own plot. I assume this is true with everyone else. When I die, that plot dies and the plots of others go on. It's my hope that I Can find someone with a big enough plot that I can be a part of it, and that my plot can be big enough that others can be a part of it. It's a damn shame that plots rarely outlive their creators.

I think there is some confusion between the idea of 'plot' and personal story and tasks.

When you create a character and live out their lives, doing what they do, and having an effect on other people, this is simply roleplaying out your character's story. Plot involves, at least to me, a deliberate scenario or path of action undertaken -in- a character's story that leads to something else. This may involve one or more characters, and certainly impacts your character's story. It's a marked distinction. I shouldn't have to feel that, in playing a game, just logging in and doing the same old shit, and interacting with people, and essentially just roleplaying out my character's story is the end all, be all sum of all 'plots' because it isn't a plot. Further, a plot is not tasks that you complete. Being assigned tasks to fulfill may help drive a plot, sure, but it is not, like playing out a character's story, a plot in and of itself. To illustrate the differences:

Bob is a friendly Kadian merchant from Allanak who loves to explore, and hires mercenaries to protect him. <-- this is a character and their 'story'. It is not a plot. It is a character whose story can be used to drive plots.

Bob is assigned to deliver a crate of silks to Tuluk. <-- this is a task. It is not, by itself a plot. It may even require more people to help him. Some people may hinder it. But this is not a plot. It may be part of a plot, or part of a plot that Bob isn't even aware of. But it isn't an actual plot. It is a task to be fulfilled (or failed).

Bob hires the Byn and goes exploring in some mountains. While he is with them, they find a secret entrance into a cavern. Inside the cavern is a spooky statue that may be good or may be evil or may be mundane. There are some bedrolls and rotten food nearby. The statue has a metal hand. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? <-- is a plot 'seed'. Now, Merchant Bob has a whole plethora of possibilities that fall outside of simple tasks and his own personal storyline. This sort of shit is what makes things happen.

This is the magic that it seems people feel is lost in Arm, and I agree in many ways. Players cannot cause the third scenario to happen, and that's what makes it far more special. It doesn't even have to be a huge, world-shattering 'plot'. But it should be unique and provide a fun experience for players that they cannot, by limit of both being a player and playing a character, be able to create for themselves.

The tabletop analogy though, is flawed. In respect to Armageddon, it's more like going to a tabletop game where the GM says it's your job to actually tell the story, but he only provides you with a single four sided die to make things happen. Sure, you could probably scrape something entertaining together if you're creative enough, but when this is pretty much all that goes on, most of those at your tabletop game are going to find something else to occupy their time.

Further, the idea that 'staff volunteer their time and their time is so special so they don't have to run things for players; players should do it themselves. If they don't, then clearly suck and don't deserve the attention from us. And if we do deign to do anything besides fix typos and make sure the game stays up, they should be grateful' is a big bunch of bullshit.


It didn't always use to be this way, so clearly there have been enough volunteers on Arm (and currently elsewhere on other games who don't subscribe to this brand of administrative horse-shit), to actually make the world come alive and to breed both small and overarching plots at some point in the past. However, it's just that what the staff was willing to do for players (the direction of the game) ended up changing. This was about the time that they revealed Arm 2.nevergonnahappen. When plans for Arm 2.0, years later, were crapped, they never really went back to expanding the game they had, or returning to actually enriching/evolving the world. It just went stagnant.

Just my exceedingly long-winded 2 cents.

This was extremely well put. Sometimes (often) when I feel strongly about something, it is difficult to articulate that. Thank you for saying it much better than I could have.

Yeah, I'm not talking about entitlement, but sort of the change in 'job requirements' in relation to plots and plotting that being a staffer entailed. It definitely has changed. At one point, staffers were pretty much falling over themselves to make interesting shit happen to just about everyone, with the same amount of staff. There was a lot of building and updating going on. Clans were opened (and some were closed, sure, but they almost always opened as many new clans as they closed). There was an expectation that, if you were joining the staff team, making memorable player experiences was as much a 'requirement' of being staff as fixing typos, and tending to your clan members. I guess 'supporting' players would be a best way of putting it.

The world was still a bit stagnant and it was still difficult to get things done. But at the same time, there was a lot of enthusiasm in supporting players and giving them wonderful, memorable gaming experiences. When I was playing, my most recent8 stint, it seemed like some of the enthusiasm was still there, in flashes, from newer staff. But given how many of them would also leave, it seemed like that enthusiasm to enrich the world and gaming experiences of the players was being ground down.

As far as the people saying that this is exactly the way it should be, and that staff know best, and anyone asking for support, reasonable or unreasonable, is an entitled fuck, I have only this to say:

Those who have spent their lives being poorly treated sometimes believe that this is the way things should be and find nothing the matter with it. They have not experienced anything better.

I have, though. Both in Arm, and elsewhere. I don't even have anything personally against Arm. Unlike some of the folks here, I've usually been treated fairly well in most of my dealings with administrators. I like to think I've never been regarded as a 'problem player', and when I did play, spent most of my volunteer time trying to create enjoyable, or at least interesting experiences for other players (and staff). So I'm not dumping on Arma just to dump on Arma or its staff. I'm just calling out bullshit where I see it, and the issue with 'plots' has really only been a major issue since they stopped really trying to build the game, and went to just more or less maintaining it in stagnancy.

I don't think you get what I was trying to say. I wasn't agreeing with you. I was saying people expect it as a baseline in gaming since in many games you either get treated better, or you are given more options or tools that are available.

What Arm does is tell you they're not going to give you any tools or really much support, and then demand you create a great experience for them and others. Which is bullshit.

I'm saying that there is a current lack of desire (or ability on the part of lesser ranked staff) to actually improve the experiences of gamers in any significant way through any actual plots, and expecting that 'character stories' and 'tasks' be relegated to the experience that a good, staff-run plot can provide. This is also bullshit.

If you're saying it's cool that a game has gotten shittier over time, then I guess that's your prerogative and opinion.

Just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.