jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Sept 21, 2014 14:41:46 GMT -5
Lol the same old bullshit accusation. If you ever have anything negative to say about the metaphysical concept of 'plot' then you get slammed with "you just expect everyone to do it for you," no matter what it is you actually said. Fuck off. The difference between now and a decade ago was that there was shit going on a decade ago, and a dynamic that made for the things that generate plot. Now that's gone as it has been systematically culled from Arm in the last four or five years, and SoI3.0 never had it to begin with. Try to at least present a coherent argument if you have to pick at someone's post. Your post is end to end stupidity and fallacies. wrong lol ur still off because ur idea of a plot requires coded speshul shit to find etc etc ur expecting too much from others when u talk about making plots when all that it takes for any plot to form is two players with any ideas or potential conflict between them. thats it. u got slammed because u r expecting some coded 'cool shit' or assistance because ur idea of a plot is limited by requiring that when its not at all necessary |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 15:23:26 GMT -5
While that's true, stipulating that plots require 'cool shit' because someone might want to very realistically cut a shirt off and have it reflected in the shirt's item and something as simple as that should take all of five minutes, be obvious at a glance, and take 30 seconds of time to update, suggesting that something like that should be considered special or cool is... kind of ridiculous. The fact of the matter is, for the game world to reflect any, literally any, change beyond manipulation of preexisting items, random pc travel, or basic interactions with a code-based world skeleton is something that requires staff assistance. And that is something that is not only waning, but waning in proportion to the idea that 'volunteering' your time makes you somehow more important because you have access to that code. Which is also not true. Many people volunteer who are not chosen. The fact that you are part of a chosen handful of already proven favored people who has an offer you made accepted in no way entitles you to constantly throw your volunteerwork in others faces as though they, themselves, have never made such a gesture or attempt or, as though, whats more, players are not ALSO volunteering time that they will never get back to play. Because they are. That's something forgotten in the attitude of entitlement. Players are volunteers as well. And their voice should at least be considered valid, rather than laughed at (literally, and this is something I've seen many times) and rejected out of hand because it doesn't jibe with what you want, even if it makes more sense.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 15:41:29 GMT -5
No, plots don't require special stuff. High-powered plots do, but that's not what everyone is asking for.
I'm willing to bet one of my newly won Shadowboard cheater Bux that we could come up with at least five separate, low-magic plots that would each take an imm less than five hours to run. Anyone who has written or been a storyteller can easily work out storylines based on human motivation in a resource poor environment.
I'm still on this board out of a potentially misguided hope that there can be constructive debate. It is my assertion that we aren't asking for storytellers to spend twenty hours a week running events. We, as I think I am echoing the sentiments of several others, want a more inclusive game that will support a larger player base with more varied content.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 15:55:50 GMT -5
It's not a question of ST's being willing to run plots. It's a question of whether or not they can get approval to help you do so. That's where the bottleneck is. 95/100 times that you get a no go on something? That's their admin not willing to allow them to help you in a way that will make your plot possible.
Yes, you can call 'go forage 100 slate' a plot, because you got hired to go do it and take pcs with you. But how many spammed forage commands make a plot, and how many make you a spammer/grinder/twink? And what qualifies as the difference? How many other people you involve? Terming something a plot DEFINES it as intricate (to at least some degree) , rather than terming it an objective, which is fairly straight forward.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 15:56:36 GMT -5
That's why they piss through storytellers like water but you rarely if ever see an admin replaced.
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Post by lyse on Sept 21, 2014 18:44:47 GMT -5
Here's my analogy. If you were playing dnd and the GM for the night ripped out some pages from the rule book, left some dice and a map on the table and said "here ya go guys, enjoy, imma watch you play. Let me know if you need anything. Make your own plot."
Would you play?
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delerak
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Sept 22, 2014 1:48:27 GMT -5
Lol no we would bust out the magic cards or just leave. Seriously.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Sept 22, 2014 1:50:17 GMT -5
Here's my analogy. If you were playing dnd and the GM for the night ripped out some pages from the rule book, left some dice and a map on the table and said "here ya go guys, enjoy, imma watch you play. Let me know if you need anything. Make your own plot." Would you play? ive played for quite a while without asking or bothering imms to do shit for me, so that answer is a resounding yes as i already have. it seems a good bunch of u have been playing with entirely other expectations in hand, and to me ur disappointment at the staff not doing small coded things for u, whether speshul or no-so-difficult, in support of ur plots is just another thing u'll have to learn to deal with as a good number of us who weren't looked at for years (decades, perhaps) moved past and learned to develop plots w/o bothering with staff assistance as needed |
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Sept 22, 2014 1:50:43 GMT -5
From wikipedia
I want to bold a few things here..
This is important.
This is important.
Campaigns don't happen if you remove those things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 2:28:50 GMT -5
I voted no. But to be fair, I haven't really played for a year and 10 days, so... of course the answer is no.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Sept 22, 2014 3:12:16 GMT -5
Every time I would try to run a little "plot", it would get squashed in a way that was "realistic"-- yet with no absolutely way to work around/prepare for it.
Not even terribly "high-level" shit either.
I can't go into too much detail, but it got really annoying.
Like trying to infiltrate a clan to get in and steal as much as possible for a grand heist of the ages.
Obtain clan's clothing/marks/whatever, come up with a believable story as to why nobody was alerted of your arrival, all the <clan> PCs involved believe and eat it up, got a contact on the inside and accomplices on standby for a later phase of the plan. I'll be damned no more than an hour in, an NPC guard recognizes PC from somewhere else and spoils the whole thing.
I've got plenty more examples of not-terribly-high-level-but-not-basic-shit exactly like this happening to me personally, but I don't wanna give myself away too terribly hard.
It's damned frustrating trying to run a plot when staff can just go "eh i dont want this to happen" and make it so. >:/
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Post by lyse on Sept 22, 2014 6:54:49 GMT -5
Here's my analogy. If you were playing dnd and the GM for the night ripped out some pages from the rule book, left some dice and a map on the table and said "here ya go guys, enjoy, imma watch you play. Let me know if you need anything. Make your own plot." Would you play? ive played for quite a while without asking or bothering imms to do shit for me, so that answer is a resounding yes as i already have. it seems a good bunch of u have been playing with entirely other expectations in hand, and to me ur disappointment at the staff not doing small coded things for u, whether speshul or no-so-difficult, in support of ur plots is just another thing u'll have to learn to deal with as a good number of us who weren't looked at for years (decades, perhaps) moved past and learned to develop plots w/o bothering with staff assistance as needed I knew you were going to say that. What a disappointment; this is the reason this board exists to be against bullshit like this. And to unplug from that "I like pie!" Bullshit on the gdb. Right now you may not be that far gone, but you definitely have drank some kool-aid and anybody that wants staff to run plots is "speshul". You my friend are being full of shit. lets review what kind of plots you can do without staff (the possibilities are endless here, let me know if I missed anything) 1) kill people 2) spy on people or steal something 3) fuck people 4) go to another city and hang out/sell shit/hunt shit Mind you Arm is the crowning jewel of RPI. And you mean to tell me staff not wanting to (or can't) run little limited "plots" for players is acceptable to you and should be acceptable to everybody else playing the game? Staff running something say once a month is just out of the realm of possibility, huh? Because it would get in the way of all of those diverse player run plots. im glad you get the analogy, but this aspect of the game should not be acceptable to you or anybody else that plays the game. Why? Because that analogy is pure insanity. You trying to convince people that they are delusional for actually wanting staff to do "stuff" big or small just illustrates to me how twisted and apathetic the pb has become. |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Sept 22, 2014 9:39:54 GMT -5
I knew you were going to say that. What a disappointment; this is the reason this board exists to be against bullshit like this. And to unplug from that "I like pie!" Bullshit on the gdb. well lets clarify some things for u, the purpose of this forum was for unrestricted open discourse about the game just like were doing right now, the only diff here vs ur gdb is that ur gonna have a real hard time trying to shut out ppl that disagree with u by trying to lump them in some allornone category when they laugh at or disagree with ur views. thats the beauty of red storm Right now you may not be that far gone, but you definitely have drank some kool-aid and anybody that wants staff to run plots is "speshul". You my friend are being full of shit. nah id rather say that if u came onto their playground with a set of demands or expectations instead of trying to make the game work for u on the terms theyve outlined and set then ur already bound to be disappointed. see the koolaid u drank is in expecting or demanding staff to do shit that was never guaranteed in the first place and then establishing the times they do offer that interaction or support as an absolute requirement for being able to set up ur own plots and enjoy the game. heres the point u might be missing, everytime theyve done little or big things in the past (and probably now) to codedly support plots it was becuz they voluntarily wanted to and producers or admins allowed it - not becuz they somehow felt it was their obligation to make u happy on threat of their game imploding from mass exodus or some shit. thats never been their mo or their mindset so ur way off coming at the game acting like any of that shit was owed to u in the 1st place. thats miles away from just wanting imms to interact with or codedly support ur plots on their terms lets review what kind of plots you can do without staff (the possibilities are endless here, let me know if I missed anything) 1) kill people 2) spy on people or steal something 3) fuck people 4) go to another city and hang out/sell shit/hunt shit um lets see murder corruption & betrayal or oh shit maybe u forgot that tagline. all that shit fits and yup just like u said endless ways those possibilities develop which is what draws ppl back everytime. no where in the game docs were you ever promised imm interaction or support ur demanding for ur plots. u can go on bitching about why it should be different and try to change things thru ur dissent and hell if u disagree fuck yeah do that but acting shocked when shit that was never promised or guaranteed anywhere (imm-assisted coded approval and support for ur plots) doesnt happen throws a whole different spin on ur argument Mind you Arm is the crowning jewel of RPI. And you mean to tell me staff not wanting to (or can't) run little limited "plots" for players is acceptable to you and should be acceptable to everybody else playing the game? nope thats ur strawman not mine lol u can keep hacking at it with bone swords if u like but staff can run little limited plots for players or they cant, thats up to them to decide not u tho like always u can try to make a case for it if u think its justified but remember theyre not beholden to u at all they do that shit because they want to not because u have some peraine crossbow to their head lol im glad you get the analogy, but this aspect of the game should not be acceptable to you or anybody else that plays the game. lolol um what aspect is that exactly, not being able to secure coded support for ur plots? lol get real cuz none of that shit was ever guaranteed in the 1st place, again playing the game with that mentality will result in a lot of disappointment and hurt feelz You trying to convince people that they are delusional for actually wanting staff to do "stuff" big or small just illustrates to me how twisted and apathetic the pb has become. a sand-filled training dummy sways to and fro from the blow so once u figure out how to change opponent remember no one said u were delusional for wanting staff to do big or little stuff for ur plots. in fact nothing would ever happen if u didnt let them know what u wanted by letting them know what ur plans were for ur pc but when u or others go off on 'oh theres nothing to do in the game its a barren wasteland cuz imms arent helping my plots come alive!' it takes a shitton of the bluster away from ur point and just makes u look like some entitled gimme-gimme chump who doesnt know htf to just develop their char and enjoy the game without that imm interaction or coded support |
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Kronibas 2.0
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by Kronibas 2.0 on Sept 22, 2014 9:56:40 GMT -5
I agree with both sides. I'd agree with lyse completely in a perfect world. I'd agree with jkarr completely if the staff didn't act like complete cunts.
On top of that, jkarr or however you spell your shitty ass name (get a bad ass one like me, pleb), a MUD is more than a game. More than a theme park or sandbox mmo. A MUD like Arm is a community. Like all communities, a good community, Arm needs an equal amount of effort from all participants. Or at least a decent amount . Or maybe at least some work every other day. And granted the playerbase isn't as nearly solid as it used to be, but that doesn't change the fact that staff is that guy sitting on his ass claiming that he has been pulling his shifts and working but everyone knows he isn't and hasn't been for a while.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Sept 22, 2014 10:48:10 GMT -5
hey melontits its cumslinger spell it right next time u dickjockey
way i see it is if staff doesnt think someones putting in enough work with their aor then thats for them to manage but most important as a player ur not in the best position to say if thats the case w/o knowing whats going on immside so its dumb to project ur expectations onto staff when again they are not required to do shit for u in the 1st place, as nice as it would be if they were that way as they have been in the past
all im saying is that ppl are setting what some staff voluntarily did in the past (drove plots and got really enmshed in helping making the gameworld and smaller plots alive) as the baseline expectation for imm interaction and plot support then getting shitty when staff arent meeting those standards, or even doing a shitload less or just whatever the minimum is required to not lose their staff role
that skewed (and unsupported) expectation is what is making all the drama
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