Sorcerer/elementalist power discussion

I think summon and empower should be removed.   In fact, I'd pull summon, empower, paralyze, and sleep... and give each caster guild a long duration non-combat effect cursing spell.   Let mages have capabilities that match the game lore explicitly.

I especially dislike summon.   Having that spell, or a minion that has that spell requires that I play an oblivious or unintelligent character.   The moment you piss off a southern templar and are outside the city, your pc should materialize in the arena with a big monster, some hgs, and a flying, invisible, fleeing spelled up whiran.

I would like it if extended subguilds were forbidden on character options over 2 or 3 base karma.   I'm not happy about a HG rukkian aggressor I've seen IG, but the whiran/outdoorsman I witnessed shouldn't happen again.   No offense, player-who-reads-these-boards.  Again, if I were in charge, I wouldn't allow the mythical "sorcerer extended subguilds" on any karma guild or race, when they get implemented.  

I'd be much happier if sorcerors, psions, and maybe nilazi were removed from the game as pc options.   Much of the same logical reasoning applies as I mentioned in regards to summon.   If you have to artificially restrain the power set of a pc to make them suited to plots for other pcs, make them npcs with those controls.  Psions are worse than sorcerers in this regard.  Either psions are unacceptable, or Qoriya is/was acceptable.   I know what side of that line I stand on.

Storylines dont have to be driven by high power, high fantasy pcs.   Stop scripted storylines that pcs cannot affect because the main npc is simply untouchable.  Start engaging in politics and human story.

This message has been brought to you by the committee to Ban Throwing Volcanoes.

I really disagree with the idea that nerfing mages is in any way in the best interests of the game. What, it's too dangerous outdoors in a game that brags about having a harsh, post-apocalyptic world? In the first sentence of its intro?

All magickers have a massive social disadvantage. Everyone is supposed to 1) be afraid of them or 2) want to use them. most players are supposed to see themselves as part of group #1. If they're rogue the only place they can be caught and survive is Nak where they'll immediately become a serf. if people RPed correctly around them they'd be socially segregated. (That's a problem to be fixed on the other players' ends. So Im going to pretend people are playing mundanes right for the rest of this paragraph because it's not something you need to fix on the mage end.) That means they are far less able to find someone with a non-magick skillset they need who they can use their own abilities around.

the first time I left the game pretty much everyone knew fearing mages was bullshit OOC. Virtually never happened IC beyond a few words about it after easily spam-killing a mage. Magickers couldn't cast in any position except standing, couldn't cast without BOTH HANDS empty, and nearly all spells required the target be in the same room. So most day 1 warriors could bash a day 40 elementalist and kill them. It was absurd.

And now that mages are actually slightly scary unless you take a small number of precautions they're a problem? Heaven forbid the game play even slightly like it's described as playing like. it might mean playing a templar's favorite kiss-ass or hiding in a clan doesn't make you invincible. I far prefered there always being a small chance the unaffiliated person I was pissing off turning out to be a mage. While they were killing me. Because I never mistook longevity as the mark of success when I played this game.

Too many rogue mages are killers? Why is this anything but expected? the game is geared socially so that deadly rogue mages in the waste is one of the only outcomes for an elementalist who wants to practice without being known. Would you feel better being murdered by NPCs? i suppose theyre easier to escape due to their limited AI. Like not knowing which wilderness quit room you are most likely to be rushing to. That kind of thing.

I also find the assertion rogue mage groups aren't rare enough impossible to believe. I've known too many templar/AoD/Legion players with nothing to do except shit from the staff and harassing people. they'd kill to have sekret mage hit squads to hunt outdoors. If it kept happening youd see the AoD/Legion explode in membership because people are attracted to clans with lots of non-staff activity.

So to summarize this rant: Elementalists are supposed to be dangerous (to 1 - 2 people). Sorcs are supposed to be terrifyingly deadly. It will not improve the game to make it less resemble its selling points.

Current magick is fine.
Though I still don't like summon. Mostly because of the range.

Psi powers are fine.
Though I don't like city sanctioned/fully supported mindbenders.

I'm kinda on the boat that mega-figures like the sorcerer kings and black-robed templars should go the way of the dodo too. The only time they have been used is to railroad plots in a Deus ex machina sort of way. The latest HRPT a perfect example of this which unknown magicks flying about and volcanos being moved. Even in the the history page, the latest one of Allanak and the sorcerer (hurr-hurr, sounds like a joke by staff attempting to remind everyone they haven't forgotten 'Nak still exists, and the way it was written feels like a jab at whoever played the sorcerer but that is another thread) showing silly plot-line ending that the common grebber or bynner often have little chance of getting involved other then from the side lines as spectators.


The problem with people with like white rantarri and plainsman beyond favoritism and staff buddy system called karma is that most of the plots surrounding these guys don't involve anything mundanes can get into. Everyone in tuluk is immediately cut off, everyone stuck in cities is immediately cut off, anyone not involved directly in magick is immediately cut off. You ultimately end up attracting a small group of people into a very niche group, and them pull them away from interacting with what should be a larger portion of the player base within and around cities. There is almost no way to stop these groups without massive staff intervention anyways which often leads to people leaving the game pissed off. Not much for mundanes to do but eat shit until these guys get bored and store, or staff gets piss off and stores them.

For the longest time, these groups and mages in general have gotten a lot of love,better teeth, new spells, new abilities, their own planes of existence. You see shattered's player mention all the cool gear they had on them, making them neigh invulnerable. What gear do mundanes get in comparison? After 20 years pickpockets just got the ability to open backpacks. For better or worse tuluk is finally getting some much changes, regardless of whether people like it or not, its at least getting attention. I think the focus needs to go back to mundanes which is the bulk of the playerbase. Safe should be looking at ways to make to making them fun to play and really making magickers an interesting once in a while experience. They really need to continue working on making sure tuluk and allanak are interacting in interesting ways, they need to do something with the tableland tribes and the area in general to get them into the mix properly. The idea of consolidation isn't wrong, regardless of play-base size, everything should be interacting with something in one way or another. However rogue magickers, and all powerful sorcerers and mindbender take away from all this in terms of plot, resources and just by isolating small groups of players away from the rest of the population.

See. This part I can agree with. the problem isn't mages though it's the staff. If the social issues with mages were turned down a little in Nak and mages could have a begrudged place with mundanes without everyone risking their karma you'd have that interaction and inclusion. Without it getting 'tarded up.


They get a lot more hate (e.g. Tuluk mindbending), abilities they already should have had to avoid being murdered by first day 0 karma roles, spells they should have always had, abilities that used to only be for immpet clans, and their planes of existence are well over a decade old.

Gear doesnt mean shit. Catch a knife with terradin on it or a crit arrow from a spam-happy d-elf and you're dead. In spite of all the cool gear it took days of spamming to produce.

I still think PPs get shafted on skills. I agreed this shit's overdue. it has NOTHING to do with nerfing mages somehow being good.

Not all attention is good attention. Everything Tuluk is mundane oriented. So...

Okay. So the problem with this is you claim you want less staff railroading via magick. But you want more staff railroading for mudanes. And the main group you think are a problem are people who independently create activity. So I don't think we're ever going to see eye to eye on this.

What I will say is your reasoning for nerfing/removing magicker roles is based entirely in self-preservation. Favoritism happens everywhere. Railroading sucks everywhere. And all that leaves that's specific to mages in your posts is they can kill you without staff approval or having a clan to hold their leash. cutting down on the number of random PC-based dangers in the game isn't going to make it more active. It's just going to increase the lifespan of people who hate risks.

And I have no doubt if you succeeded in getting magickers neutered you'd still be dissatisfied. Youll be calling for backstab and hide to be nerfed next. Throw will probably follow suite. And if someone steals something you had to wait 2 months to have done custom, maybe it'll be whining about steal being overpowered after that.

Alright first of all. I am not saying nerf mages abilities. For the records they've already been nerfed. Barrier works great on sleep and paralyze, not to mention they break once combat starts now. Blind-fighting is useful when well blind or attacked in utter darkness. Empowered items screams out I'm a mage to everyone, so you can walk show your face in public without everyone seeing those items humming away. Running away works well against most damage spells, not all but most. However there is nothing for summon, and no staying indoors isn't a solution. I think whiran will be more then fine without it. The whiran nerf was basically to raise their karma but summon is still such a lame ass spell.

I never understood the problem people had with gemmers. They have a clan they can join, they interact with people of allanak, redstorm and luirs. Some might tell them to fuck off, other want to fuck them, but there is interacting there. My last gemmer was more so much more popular than my clanned mundane it hurt. They can go harass tuluk, and in turn tuluk can send people to kill them. This actually has happened before and i think it was great, it made sense and probably gave purpose to people in allanak too who helped them. The only rogue mages that exist should probably be void mages, and they have tools to allow them to mix into society. You can still travel to remote places and live out your life in a cave if you really want. You know I've said before that rogue mages should otherwise be by app only then again when I really think about it, all rogue mages I've encountered can all become invisible.....

Lastly scripted plot lines that we have no control over, as we see in tuluk do suckass and I don't think they will change anytime soon, I understand that. However I still prefer those to shit like the HRPT where I have volcano coming up from now where. It stuff like this that really make the world static because our mundanes have no way to influence, or go against this overwhelming power. As I've said its not as if they couldn't still do the volcano shit without god-like black-robes or sorcerer kings, put those gemmers to work to death even, forcing them to have more water thus food shortages. They could gathering enough magicks through preparation to cause this great event. All this high powered magick tends to cause more lazy writing, and is basically the cause for a static world. Nothing changes without the staff and their sorcerer kings saying it does after all.