|
|
Post by mekillot on May 25, 2014 0:30:50 GMT -5
You're both right after a fashion. But only if it's something that staff wants to have happen anyhow. Because if it's not, you wind up with retarded bullshit like being able to app a family of elves but not call them a tribe because omgballs someone manages to make a tribe that pcs can't take out easily which staff doesn't want to deal with. I've heard of this. I've experienced this. I don't understand it at all. You can do all the same shit, but just don't call them a tribe? This was one of the dumbest things. Not just elves too. |
|
|
|
Post by BitterFlashback on May 25, 2014 0:35:26 GMT -5
The staff maintain the absurd notion the less control they have over player activity, the more work they'll have to do dealing with something that by definition they're not responsible for.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 0:36:29 GMT -5
New Rule: If you want to create an HRPT that involves a volcano, the volcano cannot be taller then six inches.
|
|
MartenBroadcloak
Displaced Tuluki
It's not a shit post if you spell check (tm)
Posts: 370
|
Post by MartenBroadcloak on May 25, 2014 1:22:02 GMT -5
Along this line of OP magickers and such, just how effective is barrier as a defense against things? In particular psions I suppose, would be the big question. If one is in your head, can they be expelled or barried againt? If you put up a barrier while one is in your head, does it stop them from doing certain commands, puppeting you, listening, reading bios, etc?
I'm wondering if barrier is at all a deterrent against the seemingly OP nature of psions, since all you hear is PCs going on about barriers like it's a ward against the darkness.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 1:49:25 GMT -5
First to address hardboiled: There IS a way to avoid being summoned. Stay inside. And if you have a hunter who is outside all the time, maybe respect that the force that broke the world can break that ass. Or stay hidden. Seriously, be hidden or inside and that is all it takes.
MartenBroadcloak: A barrier is... complicated. Everyone gets the same level of it, but it adds your wis mod afaik not willpower, to it. I was able to break Death's barrier after 3-4 times easily when on methelinoc, but without it, it's like an iron wall because that elven wis. But yeah, see, the thing is that for a psion to be able to do ANYTHING in your mind, you can't have a barrier up. That said... if someone around you doesn't have one up, they could literally be listening through their ears and seeing through their eyes. They can know what you look like and every word you say without ever being in your head. But if they're going to do anything to you/through you/force you to do stuff/etc, they have to break your barrier to do it. Yes they can be barriered against. When you get that 'your barrier fades away' message way prematurely for what it should be? That's a psion. Every. Damn. Time.
|
|
Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
|
Post by Hardboiled on May 25, 2014 7:02:34 GMT -5
@bitter Demons, vampires and wizards oh my. It happened. And now it doesn't happen. Anyways at some point I went from just removing some of the high powered magick and limiting certain roles of mages to removing all of magick. Okay well, magick is supposed to be rare, and in the spirit of making it rarer they even tried to implement a new system of point. This would mean people can't play make high powered mage every character anymore. They'd be more special, it would sure as hell make those wandering rogues more rare, because it would hurt to lose one now. Sure, that system is only a dream right now but the idea is all it takes sometimes. Making magick rarer, doesn't mean removing it, and there is a big difference between an 'army (which my mundane was probably involved in) did it' and 'a wizard did it' over night. Very big difference, the method is as important to me as the result so lets not take it out of the equation. Your arguments consist of me being cute, me being self-preserving and a healthy dose of hyperboles. Its an interesting way to argue because instead of being able to explain my ideas, I have to instead go around in circles repeating things some of the things I've said. However at the end of the day, this is where we disagree: You like your high powered magickal plot lines. I like more down to earth mundane plots. You want to play your wizards and have people fear you. I don't want to play a mundane surrounded by mages, who is forced to shiver in their boots in order to 'respect the force that broke the world' lol. This is why I cannot make a satisfactory argument against you specifically in terms of improving the world because again to me heading north of the grey forest and encountering war drums and gith war-bands is more enjoyable then encountering the plainsman and his merry band of assholes. We both agree magick should be feared, however we both have different idea on how rare it should be in a player's life. You have different preferences which you feel should be the norm, but I just don't.  @anaiah- I wasn't sure about the hidden part. I heard of it ICly working against being tossed around by winds but wasn't sure if it worked against being summoned. Still, being hidden or indoors doesn't really change my personal feelings that it is still a lame ass spell to be on the receiving end. I understand we disagree, that is fine. Luckily I haven't really seen or heard of people getting summoned into holes since the karma change. |
|
|
|
Post by jcarter on May 25, 2014 9:03:06 GMT -5
New Rule: If you want to create an HRPT that involves a volcano, the volcano cannot be taller then six inches. i lol'ed and wonder how many got this reference |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 9:04:34 GMT -5
If this Chargen change thing "EVER" occurs. It will achieve what you want, Hardboiled.
As in, if by playing a sorcerer, you're going to spend 8 karma, it will take you 4 or 8 months to recover the karma spent to play one again? That's how I understand the system. You spend the karma points, but recover one per month? Or one per 2 weeks? I forget.
Whiran/outdoorsman is literally impossible, unless you special app. Or maybe even then it's impossible. Whiran 6 karma. Outdorosman 3 karma. Which means you need the total of 9 karma to play a whiran/outdoorsman. Which is impossible.
This change will make the high karma roles more rarer. The people who play a mage one after another after another after another, wont be able to do it anymore. So ... high hopes for Morgenes implementing it? I guess.
|
|
|
|
Post by lulz on May 25, 2014 9:38:58 GMT -5
Bitter, I can tell you that you are wrong about the Copper War.
|
|
Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
|
Post by Hardboiled on May 25, 2014 10:50:37 GMT -5
New Rule: If you want to create an HRPT that involves a volcano, the volcano cannot be taller then six inches. i lol'ed and wonder how many got this reference For those that didn't get it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mClUN3YWeqk@@armqwertytwo- Yeah, that was the idea and I was really looking forward to it. On top of extended subguilds are a good temptation to roll something mundane and more well rounded . That said, I feel if morgenes was going to implement that system he would have done so already. I want to have faith in the guy but thems the breaks. The code is complete and is supposedly just stuck in another computer. I think the staff just got used to the system they have and haven't really bothered to finish what they started. It will be a shame to see them give a assed answer as to why they've decided not to implement it. Still, the idea is sometimes all it takes, so hopefully something new will come out of it that will achieve a similar goal. |
|
|
|
Post by BitterFlashback on May 25, 2014 12:36:04 GMT -5
Hardboiled: What I've noticed about you is you avoid using quotes so you can destroy the context of what you're responding to. Between that and rewriting history you are a very dishonest person. So I've added quotes on your behalf again to make it obvious just how much context you've erased. By the way, are you Gilvar? Because your ineptitude at following simple points and your dishonesty really screams Gilvar. 2.What arm was 20 years ago is a completely different game then it is now. The game changes from time to time, once upon a time it was more high fantasy with demons and vampires too. Oh FFS. Vampires? I only remember there being one vampire after they added code for feeding about 13 years ago. I think I heard of two others. All sponsored. Dont get cute exagerating about things you think people aren't going to know. Having a tiny number of vampires for shits and giggles didn't make Arm abruplty high fantasy. Demons, vampires and wizards oh my. It happened. And now it doesn't happen. Where did "wizards" pop into this? Where did I claim it didn't happen? Oh, right, you added the former after the fact and implied I denied what you said when I actually pointed out you were exagerating about the prevailence of vampires. That looks really different in context, doesnt it? Let's continue First of all, let me just say I don't give a shit if I can change scripted plots or not.I just hate how high powered magick is as a crutch for poor story telling. ... Do I believe it would force staff to be a bit more creative in how they go about changing things rather then just saying 'a wizard did it' well i would hope so. What I've argued for (instead of your idea for dumping high magick entirely from the game) is for the staff to abolish HRPTs. Anyways at some point I went from just removing some of the high powered magick and limiting certain roles of mages to removing all of magick.Sorry, where'd I imply you were removing all magick? i pretty clearly said high magick. Im not sure if your bald-faced lying or your victim routine is more disgusting. And no Im not willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because youve been playing fast and loose with the facts. And you keep summarizing what people said into strawman versions instead of using quotes. One of the argument you've given is that mages add to the danger in the wilderness. I'm going to argue that the wilderness can be full of dangers without some magickal asshole demanding you fear and worship them. There is a reason some people thing there are too many mage hunters and thats because magick sometimes feels so common that begin afraid gets old. You want magick to be feared, you need to make it rare, much more then it is now. And I'm going to argue what I've been arguing. you're motivated by self-preservation and still have not come up with a single reason your changes would improve the game. You claim that making magick rarer would make it scarier is a contradiction. People don't fear things they can't experience. that was thoroughly proven in the bad old days I referenced when elementalists could be easily dispatched by newbies. Since the vast majority of encounters with elementalists ended in magicker corpses people didn't RP as if they feared these people they were supposed to. their experience was "Elementalists are sissies." Okay well, magick is supposed to be rare, and in the spirit of making it rarer they even tried to implement a new system of point. This would mean people can't play make high powered mage every character anymore. They'd be more special, it would sure as hell make those wandering rogues more rare, because it would hurt to lose one now. So instead of defending your claim that making magick rarer would make it scarier, you've jumped to explaining why rare is good. Very subtle. Totally not shifting the argument or changing the subject. What I've argued for (instead of your idea for dumping high magick entirely from the game) is for the staff to abolish HRPTs. Making magick rarer, doesn't mean removing it Sure but we were talking about high magick. Which you most certainly brought up originally right here... I'm kinda on the boat that mega-figures like the sorcerer kings and black-robed templars should go the way of the dodo too. The only time they have been used is to railroad plots in a Deus ex machina sort of way. The latest HRPT a perfect example of this which unknown magicks flying about and volcanos being moved. Even in the the history page, the latest one of Allanak and the sorcerer (hurr-hurr, sounds like a joke by staff attempting to remind everyone they haven't forgotten 'Nak still exists, and the way it was written feels like a jab at whoever played the sorcerer but that is another thread) showing silly plot-line ending that the common grebber or bynner often have little chance of getting involved other then from the side lines as spectators. ... and referenced wanting to get rid of non-mundane resolutions to RPTs/HRPTs several times after. So yeah. That happened. i didn't invent that argument for you like some of the strawmen you've whipped up for me. Your arguments consist of me being cute, me being self-preserving and a healthy dose of hyperboles. : I used "cute" because you hadn't lied/embellished/exagerated enough to call you a liar. youve crossed that threshold so don't expect polite euphemisms anymore. Youre pretty clearly a bullshit artist who hasnt been called out on it anywhere near enough in your time on the GDB. Self-preservation: Everything you've said that wasn't RPT related has been about mages being too dangerous. Every single time I've asked you to explain how the game would be improved by nerfing/removing roles would improve the game (or pointed out that you still hadnt done it) you ignored the opportunity. This is, in fact, the firsttime youve even bothered acknowledging I used the term "self-preservation" and you have yet to even attempt to refute it. Instead you've thrown out a red herring and changed the subject. So how would nerfing/removing magick roles improve the game? And if your problem with mages being dangerous isn't from self-preservation then how about you finally address it directly? My "Hyperbole": Quote and demonstrate this. Because it's pretty clearly another red herring and you don't have the credibility to "just trust you". Its an interesting way to argue because instead of being able to explain my ideas, I have to instead go around in circles repeating things some of the things I've said. You've actually avoided explaining your ideas and I've had to repeat things we've both said because of your blatant, dishonest use of strawman arguments, lying about what you've said, and changing the subject. Yours is a contrived method of dishonesty. The staff involved with these things are shitty writers who try too hard to wow the players. Ive said this for years. What I've argued for (instead of your idea for dumping high magick entirely from the game) is for the staff to abolish HRPTs. If the players can't change something they won't care. It doesn't matter if what's happening is "A wizard did it" or "The army did it." Stuff happening on a world scale has no real impact on anyone and no one has any real impact on it. Nobody gives a shit because nothing they have an investment in is at risk. If you dropped the scope of the game and made it player-driven, you'd have shit like fights between two clans of 4 people over small resources. tiny stakes. Stuff most people would never hear about but they'd probably experience on their own organically. And those petty fights would matter more to those players than an HRPT that ended with mundane engineers sinking Allanak into the Sea of Eternal Silt.However at the end of the day, this is where we disagree: You like your high powered magickal plot lines.So was that a strawman, are you a liar, or are you just an imbecile? im going with all three. Because you just asserted the exact opposite of what I said. You're one of those people who lies in person by constantly shifting what was said previously, aren't you? I can tell. Because you idiots always try the same thing online forgetting that there's a record of what was said that everyone cn reference. Nobody needs to agree on what was said in the past when you have a record of it.I like more down to earth mundane plots. You want to play your wizards and have people fear you. Another strawman. Feel free to prove I want to play wizards or be feared. You have the entirety of my posting history to choose from. i wont hold my breath waiting. I don't want to play a mundane surrounded by mages, who is forced to shiver in their boots in order to 'respect the force that broke the world' Feel free to prove I want you to shiver in your boots. Also feel free to show me where I said 'respect the force that broke the world'. Again, you have the entirety of my posting history to choose from. Ive literally never said either thing at any time. So, you know... good luck making this strawman argument seem legit. Maybe you should check out the pickpocket thread where I mentioned theyre my favorite guild. Because of their high-magick ability to take coins out of pockets... This is why I cannot make a satisfactory argument against you specifically in terms of improving the world because again to me heading north of the grey forest and encountering war drums and gith war-bands is more enjoyable then encountering the plainsman and his merry band of assholes. Im going to say the same thing to you that your father should have: "You'll never know if you dont try." You haven't tried. At all. You've lied, exagerated, invented arguments for me, turned what I actually said into strawman arguments, took things out of context, deflected points, and ignored others. Thats not trying to make a satisfying argument. That's trying to wear out someone you disagree with because you really dno't care what people with contrary points of view have to say. At this point you should probably just claim the whole thing was trolling and part of your "master plan" and slink off in "triumph". We both agree magick should be feared, however we both have different idea on how rare it should be in a player's life. You have different preferences which you feel should be the norm, but I just don't. Yeah Im not going to agree to disagree with you. You're a selfish, dishonest idiot trying to pass off your pipe dream as being a better version of Arm without making any argument for it. All you've done is complain about perceived misuses of things players have done that fit the docs, and whinged about things that are entirely out of the hands of the players being resolved with lazy writing. And when I pointed out they could have the same lazy writing without high magick your excuse for preferring it was was you could convince yourself your mundane was a part of a mundane railroading. So no. I don't agree to disagree. This isnt the gdb and I'm not pretending to respect your opinion when you've been wantonly dishonest and inept at concealing it.
|
|
|
|
Post by someguy on May 25, 2014 14:05:51 GMT -5
ppl writing books here... this is the internets. two sentences or less.
All i get from this thread is: Magickers are strong. Volcanos can't be more than six inches tall. Lots of other stuff.
|
|
Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
|
Post by Hardboiled on May 25, 2014 14:11:43 GMT -5
@bitter Woah that is a lot of text. The bulk degrading to nothing but insults directed at me. The 'I'm not going to agree to disagree with you' made me laugh. I'm really trying to put this as simply as I can, I like mundane plots. The docs say magick is feared, and for the most part I follow them and fear magick. Which most of the time means a limited set of interaction I can perform when involved in magick, shiver in boots, or run away screaming. Its not very enjoyable for me. I would like it to be rarer, since yesterday alone I bumped into magick twice in a short span of time. It doesn't feel that rare to me currently and its tedious to continuously be afraid of it. As proof of the fact that I'm probably not alone in this thinking there is a points system that was to be put into place, that would have made the world more ideal for me. In the hrpt, i didn't like a volcano being thrown out of nowhere, when I was hoping to fight to the bloody death against the opposing army. To me, when I take a step back and look at the entire plot, it just seems like lazy righting to me using high powered magick as dues ex machina. Your argument on why magick should exist is that these are the movers and shakers of the world, I just think they've been the friends and buddies of staff with the most support in the past. In short, I you yourself haven't said anything that made me say, 'oh, i really want to see a lot of magick around'. You asked why I posted why what I originally posted and I've answered, hopefully i don't have to repeat myself. Most of your other concerned about strawmen, about me being a liar, and something about my father seem like pretty childish insults that seem to escalate as you let your temper get more and more out of control. Lastly, I don't know you and I don't really want to know you. You definitely don't know me. Before you decide to write another long winded post, please consider going outside and taking a walk, at the rate this is going, its going to degrade to 'yo momma is fat'. I think I've said my peace on the matter anyways. |
|
|
|
Post by BitterFlashback on May 25, 2014 14:15:32 GMT -5
ppl writing books here... this is the internets. two sentences or less. I'd like to return this copy of The Book of Lies by Aleister Hardboiled. The spine was missing and it's got a lot of shit in it.
I'm still being evasive and dishonest. I know. And your attempt to blow off having your dishonesty proven using the record hasn't made me upset any more than your claims I lost my temper have. Of course I already suggested you should claim you were trolling. Is this the setup for that? |
|
Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
|
Post by Hardboiled on May 26, 2014 10:39:10 GMT -5
I'm still being evasive and dishonest. I know. And your attempt to blow off having your dishonesty proven using the record hasn't made me upset any more than your claims I lost my temper have. Of course I already suggested you should claim you were trolling. Is this the setup for that? Well considering you've gone from attacking my ideas, to attacking me with petty childish insult, I wouldn't be accusing anyone else of being a troll if I were you. Early on I tried to address your posts with some of my own thoughts. However, that has practically made you fly off the handle. It is like a little kid screaming at you because he thinks you aren't paying enough attention to them. Your arguments have been your opinion, just like mine have and since you feel you need quote, let me give you an example of what I mean. Demons existed. Vampires existed. That was my point. "You think you heard of two others" is not fact, it is your assumption. An assumption I could care less of, the fact is they existed. A tiny number not making arm more high fantasy is still your opinion. One i do not agree with. You've quoted my entire paragraph and then begin to dissect it as a form of arguing against me. However you've taken stuff out of context and at other time not even read them properly. Again let me give you an example: This was the entire paragraph Despite also having said earlier on: I was really talking to you directly either. And it was directed more to this comment: We also find stuff like this: I did not see a need to address you specifically at first as opposed to just some of the ideas brought up in the thread. However, I did try to address some of the general thought in your earlier posts, but they degraded into such long winded dribble, it not worth the time to comb through that shit just to argue with you. You either agree with me, or you don't....I don't give a shit either way. So excuse I was sounding rather evasive when addressing you since it almost seems like you believe I should give you equal amounts of time and attention you given me. Haha, get over yourself, you are not fucking special. Basically instead of making arguments consisting of 'I disagree because XXX. In my experience I find YYY to be true. I think the game would be better if ZZZ' presenting your own ideas, opinions and feeling you've completely become obsessed with my ideas and opinions. And before you post something along the lines of "prove this about me" and "prove that", just like it is your opinion I am a liar, it is my opinion you are an attention seeking whore and need to step away from the computer, remind yourself we are talking about a text game here. You don't like my ideas, fine, you don't agree with them fine. You think I'm wrong about facts i said, i'm happy for you andI don't mind being proven wrong. Try to stay classy at least when 'trying to out someone'. You present your ideas, and perhaps why you think they are right and call it a day. In a discussion like this, there is no right and wrong, its almost all just opinions and ideas on a damn fantasy text game. It has been so tempting to just step away from this thread, it has felt like such a waste of time to respond and continue but I can see this shit continuing every time there is anything to debate here. |
|
