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Post by jcarter on May 13, 2014 16:21:14 GMT -5
Welp I'll just have to take your word for it that the docs specifically tell players of Lirathans to PK at every opportunity possible and that anything which ends in something beyond 'order all kill' is unacceptable.
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Post by apriestswife on May 13, 2014 16:24:00 GMT -5
So the documentation said you must kill every PC who has the slightest questionable background or thought and that no other way is appropriate for dealing with it? The documentation says that those people are 'disappeared'. We all know what disappeared means. Yes, that is what it says. No, it is not appropriate to let it go. Yes, that is fucking stupid. That is part of why the role has been more or less declared a wash and the orders have been integrated. The orders have been merged, but as you said, that doesn't erase her psionic abilities or invalidate years of her doing her job. Why would she stop playing a telepathic Judge Dredd now? |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:26:42 GMT -5
Welp I'll just have to take your word for it that the docs specifically tell players of Lirathans to PK at every opportunity possible and that anything which ends in something beyond 'order all kill' is unacceptable. Not 'at every opportunity possible'. It happens a lot, don't get me wrong, but frankly, if you're being called in for questioning or the like, 95% of the time, all the evidence needed to hammer that coffin shut was gathered before you got there. That said, I've seen more than one person called in for questioning and exonerated. But, again, if you have any whiff of guilt on you, yes, it's absolutely the job of the templarate to come down on it like a hammer. Would it be better if there was more RP allowed, or if things were allowed to escalate before someone 'noticed' these things? Yes, I'm not denying that or debating that. But yes, when a faithful sees a threat, it's their job to eliminate that threat. As swiftly, efficiently, and (almost always) as quietly as possible. And that is in the documentation. You can conflate it with the notion of pking as often as possible, but they are not the same thing, and frankly, I've seen people let go by Qoriya that she COULD have pked, but because it would have been inappropriate and against the documentation, she did not. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:26:59 GMT -5
Anaiah, do you remember Rahmi's last character before he went staff? He was playing a Templar.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:29:30 GMT -5
The documentation says that those people are 'disappeared'. We all know what disappeared means. Yes, that is what it says. No, it is not appropriate to let it go. Yes, that is fucking stupid. That is part of why the role has been more or less declared a wash and the orders have been integrated. The orders have been merged, but as you said, that doesn't erase her psionic abilities or invalidate years of her doing her job. Why would she stop playing a telepathic Judge Dredd now? Well, I imagine she's not far off from dying of old age. She was in her twenties or thirties I believe, when she came in, and was in in 2009, so that's five years, at eight game years per year, is forty years, so she should be in her late fifties, sixties, or early seventies by this point. As to the telepathic part, that requires stun, which goes down a lot with the aging penalties on endurance, too. So whether of old age or lack of playability, I can't imagine she will be around much longer. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:30:36 GMT -5
Anaiah, do you remember Rahmi's last character before he went staff? He was playing a Templar. I remember he was playing a templar, but I can't remember for the life of me which one. :/ |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:39:45 GMT -5
I loved his templar. He was everything an Allanaki templar is supposed to be. He actually 'allowed' flaws and weaknesses to his character. He allowed people to trick him, or talk themselves out of trouble. He purposefully made mistakes. Sure, he had ambitions and desires for power and success, but he was not at all about 'winning', or being a perfect graduate of the Templar Academy. He came up with a lot of plots. Many of which ended hilariously badly for ... everyone, but everyone had fun. If I had to choose between Rahmi's templar and Dan's, I would've definitely picked Rahmi's. Despite Dan being a lot more prolific politically, economically, strategically and favor wise.
PS: The point of this post is. What a Templar should be as per the Templarate desires, and what a Templar should be for the good of the game are two entirely different things.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:42:20 GMT -5
"I'm saying that if a knife is designed to cut someone, and it does, it's not the knife's fault, it's the person who is handling the knife, or the person who made the knife's fault." I'll make one more attempt. A person is not an inanimate object. She has the ability to decide for herself. Therefore she can be found culpable, unlike an object that has absolutely no agency of its own. Also, the role of Qoriya is the knife. The player of Qoriya is "the person who is handling the knife." The Armageddon staff is "the person who made the knife." And so no, the role of Qoriya is not to blame for all ills. The player of Qoriya and the Staff of Armageddon are to blame. The staff for creating it, the player for handling it. People don't play in Tuluk for several reasons, but only two are "main" reasons: 1) Nyr 2) Qoriya Can't get rid of Nyr, it's his game. But if you get rid of Qoriya, there will be more players in Tuluk. |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on May 13, 2014 16:44:39 GMT -5
You just don't understand the point I was trying to make. im pretty damn sure i do, as the next point ive already addressed, but ill repeat myself for u. Just because the staff enables something, doesn't make it all right to do it, especially to the degree to which she's indulged herself. if it was not 'all right' by staff for her to do it to the extent she has, she would've been corrected or dropped. the fact that u disagree with this doesn't make it right, it just means u disagree with what staff consider acceptable behavior over years of heavily monitored play |
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Post by nyrsucks on May 13, 2014 16:46:27 GMT -5
playing for as many RL years as she has under as much scrutiny as an 8 karma psionicist-templar, i'm fairly sure something would've been done if she'd been metagaming in a manner the staff didn't approve. ive seen other Templars do the same, but honestly that first gripe the other guy made about NPC solders reeked of someone who played a pc guard that had his plans to off the bitch thwarted, lol esp. since templars of other stripes in other city-states have done the same sort of metagaming with no one bitching about that; it just becomes an issue for some when an ultrapsionic version of the same takes the same metagamey precautions to her benefit I've henched for other non-lirathan templars of both cities. Those would predominately use PCs and only supplement with NPCs when they absolutely had to. Had no reason to kill someone who occasionally speedwalked by to their lair. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:47:20 GMT -5
Some templars are played better than others. The good ones draw people to them and create interesting situations, the bad ones drive people away and destroy stifle interesting situations. They're just like any other player except elevated to the level of a templar.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:49:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry, guys. But it's simply not true.
Qoriya is not the great evil. Neither is Nyr. Nyr has been in Tuluk for 3 years? 4? I am not too sure. But no more then that. Qoriya is barely managing to get to her 6th year. Tuluk sucked for a fucking ... decade. Before Qoriya, there were other Lirathans who were identical to Qoriya. Servilla was the one previous. I forget her name exactly. She was basically .. no. Qoriya is basically Servilla(sp?) 2.0. Both of them were extremely long lived. Both of them had long periods of time when they did very little as far as plot starting. Both of them killed off others plots in droves. Both of them have statues made out of them. Heh.
Personally, I welcome new changes that Nyr's implementing. Are they good ideas? Will they improve things? I do not know. Will they make things worse? ... I think the only thing that can make tuluk even worse then what it is already, is introducing a furry race. So fuck. Experiment, try new things. If shit gets really bad, just fucking nuke the damn city and start from the ruins. But until then, just try new shit out.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:49:42 GMT -5
"I'm saying that if a knife is designed to cut someone, and it does, it's not the knife's fault, it's the person who is handling the knife, or the person who made the knife's fault." I'll make one more attempt. A person is not an inanimate object. She has the ability to decide for herself. Therefore she can be found culpable, unlike an object that has absolutely no agency of its own. Also, the role of Qoriya is the knife. The player of Qoriya is "the person who is handling the knife." The Armageddon staff is "the person who made the knife." And so no, the role of Qoriya is not to blame for all ills. The player of Qoriya and the Staff of Armageddon are to blame. The staff for creating it, the player for handling it. People don't play in Tuluk for several reasons, but only two are "main" reasons: 1) Nyr 2) Qoriya Can't get rid of Nyr, it's his game. But if you get rid of Qoriya, there will be more players in Tuluk. I know this is going to make me come off as a bit of a snarky asshole but: Tell me about all the documentation you read when you played a Lirathan? And how you followed it? And how your opinion is based on any kind of experience at all other than anecdotal fringe experience and what's probably a handful of stinging pks at the character's hand? Because you haven't played that flavor of templar, you probably don't realize: That is how they are supposed to be played. You can't blame the player because that implies there is blame to be had (something wrong) on the player's end. There is not. That is how it is intended to work. The problems you are having are entirely with the role itself as it is supposed to be played. |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on May 13, 2014 16:51:01 GMT -5
I've henched for other non-lirathan templars of both cities. Those would predominately use PCs and only supplement with NPCs when they absolutely had to. Had no reason to kill someone who occasionally speedwalked by to their lair. my experience in both cities over several years differs, though i have surely seen templars use pcs from time to time, but never to the extent where i assumed it to be necessary protocol unless they specifically needed them for something or just wanted to interact - nothing i really faulted the other templars for for not doing |
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Post by jcarter on May 13, 2014 17:00:22 GMT -5
I'm sorry, guys. But it's simply not true. Qoriya is not the great evil. Neither is Nyr. Nyr has been in Tuluk for 3 years? 4? I am not too sure. But no more then that. Qoriya is barely managing to get to her 6th year. Tuluk sucked for a fucking ... decade. Before Qoriya, there were other Lirathans who were identical to Qoriya. Servilla was the one previous. I forget her name exactly. She was basically .. no. Qoriya is basically Servilla(sp?) 2.0. Both of them were extremely long lived. Both of them had long periods of time when they did very little as far as plot starting. Both of them killed off others plots in droves. Both of them have statues made out of them. Heh. Personally, I welcome new changes that Nyr's implementing. Are they good ideas? Will they improve things? I do not know. Will they make things worse? ... I think the only thing that can make tuluk even worse then what it is already, is introducing a furry race. So fuck. Experiment, try new things. If shit gets really bad, just fucking nuke the damn city and start from the ruins. But until then, just try new shit out. Players are what make the city. Iakovitz et al. made Allanak way back in, what, 2000 when they created plots and really made Allanak feel like what it should. They were the guys who shaped the place and breathed life into it. They were given a framework, but they made it what it is. Iakovitz-era Allanak and I'm going to assume today Allanak are the same place, with the same social norms and customs, same basic layout, and same power structure. But they're not the same. Because you had good players in roles that were able to set the tone of the city and act as movers and shakers. Qoriya and I think it was Serilla are in the same role as Iakovitz was. Except instead of spurring Tuluk into being a cool place, or a fun place, or an interesting place, things get stamped off before they ever take off. Tuluk can't develop into something cool when the people at the top aren't doing jack shit, and it's definitely not going to get off the ground when they're taking out anybody who might make it interesting. |
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