MartenBroadcloak
Displaced Tuluki
It's not a shit post if you spell check (tm)
Posts: 370
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Post by MartenBroadcloak on May 13, 2014 15:46:15 GMT -5
Did we just jump from Q pk'ing people wantonly to sexing children legally? My goodness, How quickly we hath escalated.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 15:48:47 GMT -5
I don't agree with this "the staff made it possible, therefore it's okay for the player to do it" line of argument. If the government legalized sex with children, would that mean people who went ahead and did it are off the hook? No, they most definitely would not be. There are rules, and then there are ethics. Sometimes rules can be unethical and following them unethical, and Qoriya is willfully playing an unethical role. Apparently, for eight fucking years RL no less, too. Who plays one character for that long? Someone who gets a major kick out of something. Gee, I wonder what it is. It sounds to me like you're trying to defend a friend, Anaiah. Is that true? Eight years? This makes me cringe. Okey, you do not know how long she's been around. Yes, it was awhile. But pulling a number out of thin air, just discredits your entire point. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 15:49:48 GMT -5
I don't agree with this "the staff made it possible, therefore it's okay for the player to do it" line of argument. If the government legalized sex with children, would that mean people who went ahead and did it are off the hook? No, they most definitely would not be. There are rules, and then there are ethics. Sometimes rules can be unethical and following them unethical, and Qoriya is willfully playing an unethical role. Apparently, for eight fucking years RL no less, too. Who plays one character for that long? Someone who gets a major kick out of something. Gee, I wonder what it is. It sounds to me like you're trying to defend a friend, Anaiah. Is that true? It wasn't for eight years, more like 6, afaik. If that. Though I admit that I didn't play before 2008, she was still new enoughand fucking up constantly while trying to mindbend my seik tribal in 2009 that my seik tribal knew she was a psion without ever being told, just because she fucked up so bad and so often in the girl's head. And your line of argument that you're disagreeing with is not the argument I'm making. I'm saying that if a knife is designed to cut someone, and it does, it's not the knife's fault, it's the person who is handling the knife, or the person who made the knife's fault. The knife is working as intended. It's not an 'it's okay', it's a 'this is how it was supposed to be done, and it is being done'. The shit, all of the shit, you hate about Qoriya... is the stuff that she is roleplaying to a T to the documentation for Lirathans. Defending a friend though? Absolutely not, I've never talked to their player outside the context of requests. I am telling you this as the person who was her fucking staff for 9 months, who saw all the plots being destroyed, got all the reports, animated alongside her at times, and has a complete picture of what a Lirathan was intended to be vs what Qoriya is/was. And can say conclusively... she is exactly the desired fucking fit for that role. |
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Post by jcarter on May 13, 2014 15:52:02 GMT -5
@anaiah if the Lirathans aren't meant to be involved with the Legions then why is qoriya PKing and not having Jihaens take over and do it? You can't sit here and say oh well they're not involved when they're actively using soldiers to kill people and act militantly. playing for as many RL years as she has under as much scrutiny as an 8 karma psionicist-templar, i'm fairly sure something would've been done if she'd been metagaming in a manner the staff didn't approve. ive seen other Templars do the same, but honestly that first gripe the other guy made about NPC solders reeked of someone who played a pc guard that had his plans to off the bitch thwarted, lol esp. since templars of other stripes in other city-states have done the same sort of metagaming with no one bitching about that; it just becomes an issue for some when an ultrapsionic version of the same takes the same metagamey precautions to her benefit The difference is that the player of Samos was actually fun to be around, drove plots, and did things to do beyond mindlessly murder PCs. He was an interesting character and interacted with the pbase in ways that weren't 'come with me pls' order all kill. Samos was also put in plenty of dangerous positions where he could have been killed and led a lot of HRPTs. I'm not aware of his metagaming random cryptic comments on the board but I'd be more lenient in my criticism because of the previously mentioned good outweighing the bad. I have literally never heard a single positive thing about Qoriya. Every single defense of her on this board has been 'u mad' and hem-hawing about how it's not the player's fault for doing nothing but PKing players it's the imms for putting them in that situation. So if there's a positive side of this and she's adding something to the game beyond coming out of the impenetrable fortress of doom to use NPCs to kill people let me know. |
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on May 13, 2014 15:52:38 GMT -5
I don't agree with this "the staff made it possible, therefore it's okay for the player to do it" line of argument. If the government legalized sex with children, would that mean people who went ahead and did it are off the hook? No, they most definitely would not be. There are rules, and then there are ethics. Sometimes rules can be unethical and following them unethical, and Qoriya is willfully playing an unethical role. LMAO @ 'unethical role'. ok, u r definitely playing another game here if the staff permit and support it, then yes it is ok for the player to do it. they run the game. u dont. expecting other players to play by ur unspoken, unsupported (by docs or staff) 'rules of conduct' between players will consistently leave u disappointed. like i said before, i think ur playing ur own game within the mud *derail* im a full member, bitches /derail |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:04:05 GMT -5
@anaiah if the Lirathans aren't meant to be involved with the Legions then why is qoriya PKing and not having Jihaens take over and do it? You can't sit here and say oh well they're not involved when they're actively using soldiers to kill people and act militantly. When there are pc Jihaens, she should not be unless she cannot find them. If she cannot find them, then she can do so, and has done so many times. The only place she ever broke with documentation that I saw was that she gave the Akai Sjir preferential treatment when it came to thieving and assassinations, and that was wrong because they are elves and not human. Just like when there are no Jihaens, they can allow pcs into the Legions, they can also carry out death sentences without Jihaens, but they are not supposed to unless it's not possible to do with a Jihaen. And again, all of that is mostly invalidated at this point by the eradication of the templarate orders, at least in theory. |
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Post by gloryhound on May 13, 2014 16:08:33 GMT -5
You just don't understand the point I was trying to make.
Just because the staff enables something, doesn't make it all right to do it, especially to the degree to which she's indulged herself.
Think of how many characters were lost over the years to this one person by people who didn't even understand what was happening. They never had a chance. It's abusive of their time and effort.
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Post by jcarter on May 13, 2014 16:10:57 GMT -5
You just don't understand the point I was trying to make. Just because the staff enables something, doesn't make it all right to do it. Think of how many characters were lost over the years to this one person by people who didn't even understand what was happening. They never had a chance. It's abusive of their time and effort. this is going to get retorted with 'well if you didn't want your character to die find another MUD' and ignore the main issue of a PC in a privileged position going overboard with PKing while staff-supported and part of the reason why no one wants to play in Tuluk anymore. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:12:15 GMT -5
You just don't understand the point I was trying to make. Just because the staff enables something, doesn't make it all right to do it. Think of how many characters were lost over the years to this one person by people who didn't even understand what was happening. They never had a chance. It's abusive of their time and effort. No, it doesn't. But if you are playing a sponsored role, you are expected to play the role to the documentation, and that is what she did, and if you have a problem with her, it is with the documentation for the role, because that is what she was playing. This is not a case of staff enabling something. They're not 'enabling' a lirathan to be a lirathan, they DECIDED THAT IS WHAT A LIRATHAN SHOULD BE. And clearly eventually something got through, being as the role of lirathan is no longer an option. But it is the role as intended that she is playing, she's not being enabled to do these things, or 'allowed' to do these things, she's doing them because they are the specific reason she got the role to start with, and if she wasn't playing it as she was supposed to, she would have long ago died or been stored. |
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Post by gloryhound on May 13, 2014 16:14:02 GMT -5
this is going to get retorted with 'well if you didn't want your character to die find another MUD' and ignore the main issue of a PC in a privileged position going overboard with PKing while staff-supported and part of the reason why no one wants to play in Tuluk anymore. Yep. Happens every time, since most people care more about "winning" an argument than honesty. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:14:26 GMT -5
the main issue of a PC in a privileged position going overboard with PKing while staff-supported and part of the reason why no one wants to play in Tuluk anymore. Why do you think she has not been force stored even though there is no more chance for anyone to play lirathans? It is because the ROLE OF LIRATHAN is gamebreaking, not because the character is being played wrong or badly, but because the role, when played right, is gamebreaking, and that has finally sunk in. That says, again, that it's the role that is the issue, not the player. Which is why the role no longer exists. |
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Post by jcarter on May 13, 2014 16:15:42 GMT -5
No, it doesn't. But if you are playing a sponsored role, you are expected to play the role to the documentation, and that is what she did, and if you have a problem with her, it is with the documentation for the role, because that is what she was playing. So the documentation said you must kill every PC who has the slightest questionable background or thought and that no other way is appropriate for dealing with it? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:17:18 GMT -5
No, it doesn't. But if you are playing a sponsored role, you are expected to play the role to the documentation, and that is what she did, and if you have a problem with her, it is with the documentation for the role, because that is what she was playing. So the documentation said you must kill every PC who has the slightest questionable background or thought and that no other way is appropriate for dealing with it? The documentation says that those people are 'disappeared'. We all know what disappeared means. Yes, that is what it says. No, it is not appropriate to let it go. Yes, that is fucking stupid. That is part of why the role has been more or less declared a wash and the orders have been integrated. |
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Post by gloryhound on May 13, 2014 16:17:34 GMT -5
"I'm saying that if a knife is designed to cut someone, and it does, it's not the knife's fault, it's the person who is handling the knife, or the person who made the knife's fault."
I'll make one more attempt. A person is not an inanimate object. She has the ability to decide for herself. Therefore she can be found culpable, unlike an object that has absolutely no agency of its own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 16:19:52 GMT -5
When you are a soldier, and you act as a soldier is expected to act, you can't be faulted for not being a fisherman. You're expected to be a soldier, not a fisherman. She is doing exactly what is expected of her. If she wasn't, she would have been stored. No, it's not a player's fault that the role they are playing has x, y, or z requirements if the requirements were written up and imposed by staff, and expected to be adhered to by staff on pain of storage if you don't.
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