Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 22:06:51 GMT -5
He definitely did that.
Big sigh.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 14:17:01 GMT -5
Laeris fucked it up in a huge way, but there was a very vocal group of supporters including Sanvean who seemed to want to Tuluki reconstruction thing to happen. It's just that the follow through was weak as hell.
Laeris did not even last that long as a staffer after the "rebuilding" of Tuluk was complete... Again, I was one of the only people playing a PC who even mildly protested this shit because Cidsarl wanted Freil's to stay autonomous. So, later on down the line, they basically decide to use Morin's as the same fucking thing that I wanted Freil's to remain... Anyway.
No, Nyr is not fully to blame... It was already rightly fucked up. Mekeda really didn't have much to do with any of that at all, though. It had more to do with the person who "reconstructed" Tuluk vamping out right after it was finished, probably because they were the focus of a shitload of nerd rage about how long the roads were and other shit.
Still, the minute Nyr was put over Tuluk, he started doing shit like animating Kadian higher up NPCs and using them to accomplish his "vision" while ignoring the factors outside of his bullshit vision. The fact that he had played a long lived PC in the area and already had standing biases exacerbated his negative effect on the region.
Kadius was the most robust clan in Tuluk when he was put over a part of the Northlands, he killed it in a month, and then moved on to something else to fuck up. This was in like 2007, so well before this board... But it was when I first decided that this guy was a fucking clown.
Y'all should have listened to me back then and maybe we could have avoided a number of absolute shit shows.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on Jul 28, 2015 3:23:05 GMT -5
@kronibas thats a good summary
also think what u presented there is prototype for ppl dissing or praising nyr
'fuck that bastard who sped up tuluks run into the ground. what a horrible wiz'
'yay he put down old yeller when he went cujo. what a brave wiz'
takeaway is that for him it is all a loss that he can attempt (and fail) to forget in producerland
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Post by sirra on Jul 28, 2015 14:32:16 GMT -5
Tuluk began its descent once it became a city again and was no longer simply the northlands. So I can't give nyr all the blame. It was already defiled by the time it reached his hands. And I'd argue mekeda and nashi were smaller fries in that particular clusterfuck. But where nyr shines with his ineptitude is in its final days. Tuluk was mishandled in baby steps by each admin it had been past to. Nyr however did more damage to it then the rest put together. And he caused its ultimate failure and demise, where before him it was just a less cool city than nak. I agree with the first part. Tuluk have began it's descent from the moment it became a city. People blame Nyr for it, but to be honest, Tuluk sucked years and years before Nyr. I also disagree with Nyr being the cause of it's greatest demise. What Nyr was doing was pretty simple. He was trying to improve Tuluk. Radically. He failed. Tremendously. No matter what he tried to do, no matter what he got other storytellers and coders to help him get done, none of that really sunk in, none of it was embraced by the playerbase. It just didnt work. He tried. Sometimes with some guidance, sometimes blindly, sometimes weirdly, sometimes with good effort, but ... it didnt work. Most people who haven't been playing a long time don't realize that Tuluk was a goddamn stupid place shortly after it first began (from the moment of there being player Lirathans/Jihaens at the very least, and when much of the Houses were conjured up). Nyr did not ruin Tuluk because it was already a retarded, poorly conceived culture. It had its ups and downs, because there are many creative and imaginative people that have played Armageddon, and a significant handful of those, players and staff alike, put a huge effort into wringing blood from the stone that is Tuluk as a setting. Albeit, leave it to Armageddon to give us a situation that has both a prevalence of rampant mutations and bards two of its key distinguishing features, and have 99% of the effort spent on bards. The last time Tuluk was even a semi-interesting place to play was during the Rebellion. Most of the shitty things that got introduced into Armageddon's clan culture first germinated in the Tuluki clans and houses. As far as Nyr taking something and over-complicating it to, that's just Nyr being Nyr. He is the king of making stuff needlessly convoluted and byzantine, which is partially done to obscure the fact that it ultimately boils down to arbitrary fiat. If things are complicated enough, people might ascribe events or occurrences to some deep and mysterious motive, when in fact, it had more to do with whether he had coffee that morning. Merchant warehouses are a good example. Here's a meticulously detailed, bulletpointed list of hoops to jump through, which by the way, virtually ensure it will never happen unless you were the specific player that staff had in mind to do this for when first thought up...But it all comes down to is essentially an elaborate review of your account notes. It's just that you have to spend potentially 2+ RL years to find out if staff decides you're trustworthy enough. The PC templars don't give out the warehouse licenses. They have to report it to staff, and staff tells them if its okay or not. But fuck Tuluk, and anyone that strongly associates Nyr with Tuluk's demise knows little about Nyr and less about Tuluk. That place was a sewer of pseudo-hipster 'would't it be coolism', and the fact that Nyr turned the Legion's ranking system into a bureaucratic shithole such as to rival any modern federal institution with its incoherence, had virtually nothing to do with why Tuluk deserved to be razed to the ground. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 15:05:51 GMT -5
It was always kind of shitty, but it did function up until Nyr decided to start really fucking with it. But I wouldn't even mind Tuluk being gone if not for the fact that they did *nothing* with the result. Other than Tuluk being inaccessible and there being slightly more people doing nothing in the southlands now, the game is identical. They totally failed to make the closure of one of the world's two city-states significant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 21:38:16 GMT -5
Because they dont want it significant? Tuluk wasnt destroyed. Tuluk was 'closed'. That's like blaming staff for not sinking Fale into lava, because they are closed. Or for not having Soh Lannah Kah mutate into gith, because their clan got closed once.
Believe it, or not, but there will be a day when Tuluk opens and will accept players again. Hopefully not for awhile. Hopefully, it will come out changed, with a lot of brainstormed docs and cultures changes. Hopefully, the first players in them will be good ones and they'll set the trend from there. It'll be the Tuluk ... Reset. And the absence of tuluki players will help armageddon players to forget their distaste for Tuluk and begin playing there without bias. It'll also be void of the 'old guard' of Tuluk which for the most part were tavern sitting, do nothing, scorn anything out of ordinary, fucktard bores.
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tedium
Clueless newb
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Post by tedium on Jul 28, 2015 21:56:47 GMT -5
Tuluk functioned because of the sheer effort a few dedicated players threw into the sphere, and the abundance in "material wealth" for twinking.
I remember when they announced the decision, some of the staff members felt that this would lead to more complex plots between players. But complexity isn't driven by population. A high population can diminish complexity as players simplify their plans (or never include others in them) to avoid being outed or caught before they can pull anything off.
Complex plots emerge when players (or better yet, organizations) are allowed to compete over a shared objective that each would use in different ways. This creates conflict between the groups. Third parties can then take advantage of the conflict in ways which are advantageous to themselves. That's how you get Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal.
The problem with Arm is that there are no shared objectives which players can compete over. Food or materials are not rare. Ranks are limited within certain clans and can be considered an objective. However, killing off your Lieutenant doesn't mean you get a promotion. It means you have no Lieutenant until Staff makes an OOC decision to do a role-call or promote someone of their choice within the clan. If Templars were capable of promoting instead of a bureaucratic OOC system, this would be a different story, but that's not how it works. Staff pulled the system into their lap while insisting that players make their own fun.
But when players do create their own objectives, they run into the strict, arbitrary and static Staff guidelines for the game world. Are you playing a Soh who envisions them as the Salarr of the tableleands? Do you want to drive the Sun Runners out of the weapon-trade and force them to deal in Kadian-esque luxuries? That's great, but Soh are a raiding clan who isn't allowed to raid too much, so Staff will never let you accomplish anything. Instead you just make yourself an objective for other players. Once they kill you everyone goes back to doing nothing.
That's why complex plots don't emerge.
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Post by lyse on Jul 29, 2015 6:07:24 GMT -5
Because they dont want it significant? Tuluk wasnt destroyed. Tuluk was 'closed'. That's like blaming staff for not sinking Fale into lava, because they are closed. Or for not having Soh Lannah Kah mutate into gith, because their clan got closed once. Believe it, or not, but there will be a day when Tuluk opens and will accept players again. Hopefully not for awhile. Hopefully, it will come out changed, with a lot of brainstormed docs and cultures changes. Hopefully, the first players in them will be good ones and they'll set the trend from there. It'll be the Tuluk ... Reset. And the absence of tuluki players will help armageddon players to forget their distaste for Tuluk and begin playing there without bias. It'll also be void of the 'old guard' of Tuluk which for the most part were tavern sitting, do nothing, scorn anything out of ordinary, fucktard bores. I think he's just saying there was a potential story arc there that could have involved a lot of clans and spun off a lot of player led plots. Cause...you know even when staff do things like close Tuluk, it leads to players attempting to make a story out of it....cause you know, some players understand cause and effect. It could have been more meaningful. You say they didn't want it to be significant.....watching that unfold, I'd say it really appeared to be a significant story. That was super disappointing that it wasnt and made it look like it was a halfassed gimmick while they fix Tuluk |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 11:12:41 GMT -5
Someone should tell Nyr to stop posting on the GDB. Seriously, this recent post sort of blows my mind.
To anyone who's had interactions with him, does this seem like he's talking about himself? Serriously, they'd do well to have James de Monet from the GDB speak for the staff on the GDB, but not before Nyr takes his own advice in step number three and steps off.
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Post by jcarter on Aug 5, 2015 11:36:28 GMT -5
lol, the first step is essentially tl;dr even if you were right you probably weren't nice enough.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Aug 5, 2015 16:47:27 GMT -5
I especially like Nyr's little slip in that last post... Someone should tell Nyr to stop posting on the GDB. Seriously, this recent post sort of blows my mind. Notice that there's a qualifier on "could they have a grudge against me" that clearly leaves open that Nyr holds grudges he feels are the fault of players? |
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Aug 6, 2015 0:01:26 GMT -5
nessalin is as much of a toolbag as nyr, to the point of their being literally equal to one another. But with ness you'd never know because he rarely says a word anymore. What nyr needs is to adopt this same practice. Seriously, it would actually help him to just shut the fuck up. I think even the players who "claim to" like him would genuinely like him more if he did this. And nyr, if you do feel the nagging urge to reply to something, be brief for once! Even if he was completely respectable and nice I'd still never see him as an authority figure because he has this overwhelming need to be prolific. Be scarce for once. Who knows, maybe people will even start to miss you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2015 9:04:09 GMT -5
The fundamental issue is that the staff is generally shit, but your options and privileges in the game are directly proportional to how much respect you show staff, so they get away with it forever since so many players care more about their privileges than about staff decency and the game's atmosphere. If more people valued principles above their ability to play overpowered characters, something might change.
However, for every case of gross staff misconduct that does reach the surface, there's ten more where the victims just keep quiet because saying anything means they lose karma/characters, get on the shitlist, or just banned outright. Consider this and then look at how much of a shitshow the game has become in recent years with a tenth of the truth known. It would be so much worse if people could speak freely instead of being bullied into silence.
There's dozens and scores of players who have been treated like total garbage but are more interested in keeping their karma points and their backs clear of staff vengeance. This situation is completely untenable in the long run, and Armageddon only remains stable because it's literally the only RPI in real working condition. It's like the only crack dealer on the block being able to treat the fiends like shit and get away with it, only in this case, it concerns a game on the internet, which makes it so pathetic that staff can't help themselves from acting like that megalomaniac crack dealer; and a bit pathetic, too, that so many players suck it up.
It's easy to justify your own behaviour, no matter how wrong, when a bunch of people grovel at your feet to get on your good side for self-serving reasons, praising everything you do and violently berating anyone who says anything unfavourable about you. That's the GDB, and the karma and staff-can-veto-anything system is the catalyst for this whole situation.
Edit: actually meant to post this in the other thread.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Aug 9, 2015 11:17:31 GMT -5
i hav 2 sai taht armugedun iz not uniq in taht humin eror plais a part in staf desishuns. it duz seme 2 b uniq wen taykyng stafs mowst resent eforts 2 limit taht az much az posible comz in2 vew. i theenk tehy r makyng an onist efort 2 limit humin eror az much az posibul. tahts were mor humin eror comz in. az sum faymus gai onts sed let he hoo iz withowt sin cast teh 1st stone. also tehy hayt me but mowst uv u do 2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 11:24:53 GMT -5
" az sum faymus gai onts sed let he hoo iz withowt sin cast teh 1st stone." Yeah, good luck enforcing that, especially here. Also, I don't hate you  |
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