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Jeshin
2012-10-22 01:46:54PM (785 days ago)

Hey,

Probably the last request I put in under Poets Circle tag for awhile. I did have a character report I was writing up to send in this afternoon, but a large portion of it is moot. While I'm unsure if this will warrant an answer, I do really have to ask.

What was Elrum's big flaw? What got him banished?

If it was some IC background stuff, that's fine but OOCly I would sincerely like to know. Despite all of Elrum's shortcomings he did live for the Circle and pretty much focused all his efforts on giving back to it. Demonstrated ICly on a regular basis. Any input from the staff on this would be really very appreciated.
Other by Nyr
2012-10-22 03:48:35PM (785 days ago)

Jeshin,

Your Question/Request request has been resolved.

Nyr
Armageddon Staff
Nyr
2012-10-22 13:50:49 (785 days ago)

Jeshin,

What do you think Elrum's big flaw was? Why do you think Elrum got banished?

Nyr
Armageddon Staff

Jeshin requested, on 2012-10-22 01:46:54PM (0 days ago):

Hey,

Probably the last request I put in under Poets Circle tag for awhile. I did have a character report I was writing up to send in this afternoon, but a large portion of it is moot. While I'm unsure if this will warrant an answer, I do really have to ask.

What was Elrum's big flaw? What got him banished?

If it was some IC background stuff, that's fine but OOCly I would sincerely like to know. Despite all of Elrum's shortcomings he did live for the Circle and pretty much focused all his efforts on giving back to it. Demonstrated ICly on a regular basis. Any input from the staff on this would be really very appreciated.


Jeshin
2012-10-22 13:53:17 (785 days ago)

I'm sorry but I don't know. Elrum's disbarrment felt a little overdone. His punishment for claiming he got coin from his family [which doesn't even mean Circle] felt a little overdone. His outright banishment however was a complete shocker to me. Especially after Master Adarana let him stay three weeks prior.

I'm not asking this question to try and argue. I would just really like to know. If an answer isn't something that the staff can give due to OOC/IC , I understand.

Nyr
2012-10-22 14:00:16 (785 days ago)

Jeshin,

You can't make any judgments whatsoever about things your PC may have done wrong? You have no idea whatsoever as to why Elrum may have been banished? Not even a guess?

Nyr
Armageddon Staff

Jeshin
2012-10-22 14:04:31 (785 days ago)

The only thing in recent time is the 10,000 sid which he kept out of the 50,000. If the Circle was aware of that, sure it could warrant a banishment. Of course that happened awhile ago and there was no action by the Circle until the last 3 OOC days, so it seems unlikely that it could be the cause.

Nyr
2012-10-22 14:49:04 (785 days ago)

Jeshin,

To date, your PC has done the following things:

enough to get temporarily exiled from the Circle
enough to get reinstated
enough to get removed from the Circle

Just as some IC things led to your PC's temporarily exile before, it should stand to reason that some IC things have led to your PC's removal now. This is an IC thing. While we are not singling you out in this matter, there is IC reasoning behind this. As we have mentioned before, the world and PCs alike react according to your PC's words and actions rather than your PC's intentions. Even in your request above, you write:

What was Elrum's big flaw? What got him banished?

This implies that Elrum has a big flaw or that he has done something in order to get banished. What could it be?

Despite all of Elrum's shortcomings

This implies that Elrum not only has shortcomings, but he has a lot of them. What could they be?

This request is an example of some of the OOC habits that you have that we have been attempting to break for you so that you can better enjoy the game. There are some OOC things that you have been doing that are problematic. We've talked to you about them and you still continue to do them. You have made it a habit to not tell us the full story. You have made it a habit to expect us to react IC to your character's intentions rather than your character's actions. Neither one of these things are helping, and both were evident in the latest request that you cancelled. You put in the request and we began to investigate because the information in the request was not in context. You cherry picked some things and tossed them in. I asked for some more detailed background on it, which two Storytellers were happy to provide (one of which was animating and provided a log). We reviewed the log, found the issues in question, and then were prepared to discuss with you the problems with doing what you did.

You then cancelled the request. I seriously considered storing your character after you did this, because it was an example of you putting us through a lot of work in order to just make sure you (the player) were telling us the truth. We don't mind researching when it is necessary, but it should not be necessary for us to backcheck your own requests to us...to make sure you aren't willfully or unintentionally misleading us.

I decided against an OOC storage because the things that Elrum had done IC were all IC things and it would provide more RP for him to serve as an example of what happens when a bard makes IC mistakes. Although we have had some issues with the OOC parts of your reporting and requests, this is an entirely separate thing from the IC mistakes on your character's part. We do hope to see some improvement in those areas, but the IC punishment is for the IC things Elrumin has said and done.

The decision was not made lightly, but it was made. I hope that helps to some extent.

Nyr
Armageddon Staff

Jeshin
2012-10-22 15:39:50 (785 days ago)

Nyr,

Thank you for outlining your position. This makes it much more clear what led to Elrumin's banishment. You can resolve this request if you like. I will be filing a staff complaint. Not angry, but points seem to need addressing.

Jeshin

Nyr
2012-10-22 15:48:29 (785 days ago)

Jeshin,

Feel free to do so.

Thank you,

Nyr
Armageddon Staff

^ found where he told me instead of forcestoring me he banished me.

Brief fun fact I actually offered to accept forcestorage if Elrum were allowed to remain a bard.

animating the NPC and doing the IC stuff takes creates more work than hitting force-storage.

Elrum's disbarment (1st banishment) was due to him letting Raleris know that Tenneshi rigged the Auditions against one of the people he supported. This was told to him by Masterbard Zelafin in the middle of the Ghaati. One would imagine it wouldn't be a secret in such a public locale.

Raleris pulled crazy card on the situation and alluded to murdering a masterbard in response.

Elrum warned the circle of the situation and was disbarred for breaking the circle's trust

Fast forward 3 years?

Elrum is an Apprentice again (after being demoted from Seeker) and Kadius suddenly has beef with him.
It is told to me OOCly by 2 staffers that the Kadian Staffer has a problem with me despite Elrum's history of supporting Kadius.

Elrum pays off like a 30k or 50k debt to Kadius they claimed he owed them for 'damages'. During the payoff he says the thing I posted up there and Zelafin is animated takes all the money and then breaks his fiddle.

I file a request. Cancel it. Days later I am now gone from reprimmanded to banished.


PS - I'd like to think Elrum was one of the best bards of his generation in the game considering the various events and RPTs he helped establish. But I'm biased *wistful sigh*

Jeshin
2012-08-20 08:19:20PM (848 days ago)

Faithful Qoriya Donates 10,000 sid through Elrum. I wished up, logged, and dropped it as shown. Evidently Elrum is some sort of money-gicker, because it really does just roll in.

You send this message to the staff:
"Poets Staffers: Making my way to the Circle to pass off 10,000 to Masterbard Crosof. Heads up if you want to animate. If not I'll log and put in a request like normal."

Approaching a cylini-bearded, stout-shouldered man through the crowds with a warm smile, you say, in sirihish:
"Master, I've a sizeable donation from Faithful Lady Qoriya to the Circle."

The trim, russet-haired man pulls a hefty bag from your large grey bag and offers it to a cylini-bearded, stout-shouldered man.

You give a cylini-bearded, stout-shouldered man 10000 coins.

Respectfully, you say to a cylini-bearded, stout-shouldered man, in sirihish:
"The Faithful Lady trusts the Masterbards to use the coin where it is best served, but she hopes that some will go to honoring the memory Masterbard Sunny Groot."


The trim, russet-haired man dips his head again to a cylini-bearded, stout-shouldered man and then turns to walk towards a red-tiled building.

Aizou played by someone, forget the GDB handle but I played with them in Oash before the Circle. They will literally logout when confronted with my PC or refuse to acknowledge any form of emote or verbal communication, repeatedly.

Jeshin
2012-05-28 01:36:41PM (932 days ago)
Cc'd to: Bards of Poets' Circle

On the GDB, the credo is that if you're not sure whether or not something is complaint worthy. You should send it in anyway, so the staff can assess. Apprentice Aizou Irofel - the shapely, ink-lipped woman appears to ignore a large part of interactions and will even abruptly leave scenes by quitting out to avoid them. While there is no rule that a player must RP in any scene or with anyone imparticular. I thought I'd at least let the staff know so they can make their own assessment.

I don't know if Aizou's player is busy or is intentionally ignoring emotes/dialogue aimed at her, but it's sometimes disruptive to RP to have someone present in a room that seems to pick and choose which interactions they will acknowledge at all. Not to mention the fact she will ocassionally just up and leave without any indication. Quitting out only to return 15-30 min later.
Declined by Nyr
2012-05-28 05:19:55PM (932 days ago)

Jeshin,

Your Player Complaint request has been resolved.

After about 2 months of her continually logging out unrealistically to avoid all interactions and talking shit about Elrum even though they had next to no interactions and after I saw the GDB handle and recognized it as the same person who did this to my previous character in the Oash clan.


Jeshin
2012-07-12 01:47:09AM (887 days ago)
Cc'd to: Bards of Poets' Circle

Hey,

This is a complaint about Aizou Irofel - The shapely, ink-lipped woman

1. To my knowledge Aizou has disliked and avoided Elrum to the point of literally quitting out, since day 1 he saw her.

2. This same player did nearly the same thing on her previous PC towards one of my PCs [Wilem in Oash / She was a Rukkian, forget the name]

3. I can't help but wonder if there is some kind of OOC issue that I am unaware of. I know she is not forced to RP with me, but I feel as if there is an artifical gap between these two PCs that precludes even rivalry RP.

4. Bardic Docs - Though rivalry and competition amongst bards is common, a certain collective ideology and communal cooperation rests at the foundation of the Circle, and tends to promote a strong level of respect amongst most Circle bards, despite any differences. The Masters are quick to act on any feuds that get out of control and provide long lecturing and discipline where necessary.

5. Aizou has spoken poorly of Elrum publically in taverns, at the bar, and before he was disbarred. Her complete refusal to ever acknowledge him, even walking way when he tries to address her is a pretty public insult every time she does it. Would this be in line with the docs?

I really don't mind conflict. I had plenty of conflict with other PCs, but the way which Aizou and the Player seems to respond to me imparticular is just to noticable and annoying not to at least bring up to the staff. If none of this is relevant to a valid player complaint, at least I filed one instead of posting on the GDB about it!
Declined by Nyr
2012-07-12 10:19:10AM (887 days ago)

Jeshin,

Your Player Complaint request has been resolved.

Nyr
Armageddon Staff
Nyr
2012-07-12 08:32:56 (887 days ago)

Jeshin,

1. Get over it. You were told this before--no one is required to play with you or stay logged into the game.

2. Get over it. Gee, it would seem like they are consistent in logging out when they need to if they were doing this with another PC. Maybe it's not about you.

3. Speculative; get over it.

4. Okay. We can exile you permanently from the Circle since you think this is such a big issue. Let us know if you want us to do this. We believe that would be an accurate representation of the Circle's response since you are the one with the issue.

5. Get over it. Your PC got disbarred from the Circle for good reason; other bards deciding your bard was being a bullshit muncher doesn't mean they are targeting you unfairly.

This is lame. If you're going to continue to complain about IC treatment (or pseudo-IC treatment, or throw out conspiracy theories like this), we will just store your PC. I'm tired of stepping in to point out what you are doing wrong, and if you're going to keep taking up our time to whine that a PC isn't playing nice with you like we're your parents, I'll send you to your room.

Nyr
Armageddon Staff

Jeshin requested, on 2012-07-12 01:47:09AM (0 days ago):

This isn't really worthy of complaint; people are not required to play with you nor are they required to stay logged in all of the time and not have lives.

Nyr
Armageddon Staff

"Get over it" and "This is lame." What beautiful leadership-like words coming from a guy that is supposed to uphold everything that Armageddon stood for in the past and continue to keep it alive in the future.

Also,

"From help death:

hen characters die in Armageddon MUD, there is no resurrection. Only if
at least two senior staff members agree that the death occurred directly as
the result of some major bug, or other exceptional circumstances, can the
character be resurrected.

I italicized the key point there; staff can resurrect people if the situation is deemed necessary, and in this case, it was deemed to be an exceptional circumstance."

Funny, when I was tossed into a training dummy and the training dummy 'subdued' my PC with no chance of escaping its grip, and someone beat me to death by mistake afterward it wasn't deemed an accidental death due to major bugs even though I asked for a rezz, because, let's be honest here, if a training dummy subdues you and you can't escape it, what is it if not a 'major bug'? Unfortunately, I wasn't RL buddy with 3/4 of the Staff members like Sinjinn was at the time.

Oh, forgot the most awesome part of what you posted!


This is lame. If you're going to continue to complain about IC treatment (or pseudo-IC treatment, or throw out conspiracy theories like this), we will just store your PC. I'm tired of stepping in to point out what you are doing wrong, and if you're going to keep taking up our time to whine that a PC isn't playing nice with you like we're your parents, I'll send you to your room.



THIS IS THE KIND OF NYR-REPLY YOU CAN EXPECT IF YOU DECIDE TO GO IN PRIVATE WITH HIM, RATHER THAN DISPLAY YOUR DIRTY LAUNDRY WITH HIM IN PUBLIC.