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Post by lyse on Mar 9, 2014 8:30:01 GMT -5
Gith and Mantis's danger is only PK centred, while Tuluk/Allanak have other alternatives of conflict? Players don't want alternatives of conflict, they want straight up war, because that's how Arm is supposed to be...... |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Mar 9, 2014 8:48:01 GMT -5
They don't necessarily need to re-open anything just make the world more dangerous all over. You shouldn't be able to go from Tuluk west gate to Allanak west gate without encountering something dangerous along the way, but you totally can. The world just isn't dangerous anymore especially if you know what "rooms" to avoid.
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dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
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Post by dcdc on Mar 9, 2014 9:13:26 GMT -5
Honestly, if they really want to make the world smaller they should make it more dangerous. By reopening the gith and mantis to players. why the fuck is there even a mantis on the new Arm site? Theyve been closed for almost 2 decades. Is there a problem with having Allanak and Antiallanak? Yeah. it's that the latter is too far from the former. What we cant understand conflict unless its some literary mirror image shit? Fuck that. The gith and mantis are more culturally alien than tuluk could ever be. I agree on Mantis/Gith part. But I don't think Tuluk needs closed/nuked or whatever. If people like playing there, I'm more then willing to let them. Even if its the same 12 people. Not going to turn my nose at players even if I think their characters are too fancy and their city state is for wusses. Mainly because I feel everyone at lest currently should still be able to play the game in a way they enjoy. My problem with "player dilution" stems from that fact it's an argument used to make certain roles difficult (needlessly) or impossible. Because the certain people who usually push that, are usually city bound players who like emoting nine different ways the sun shines through their hair, while sitting in a windowless tavern. I don't like those players, but I ain't about to destroy or attack the way they play. I'm bigger then that. |
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Lizzie
Clueless newb
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Post by Lizzie on Mar 9, 2014 15:37:36 GMT -5
I wish I knew what rooms to avoid. As far as I can tell, everywhere is safe as long as you save enough mv to run.
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Post by jcarter on Mar 9, 2014 16:18:14 GMT -5
Gith and Mantis's danger is only PK centred, while Tuluk/Allanak have other alternatives of conflict? Players don't want alternatives of conflict, they want straight up war, because that's how Arm is supposed to be...... I'm going to disagree with this. I don't want war, I want adventure. I'm a fan of Conan the Barbarian. Not the character (he's the weakest part), but the setting. Magic is this dangerous, evil force that you're giving up part of your soul to get. There's danger around every corner. Whether it's running into highway robbers or mercenaries looking for an easy score, or stumbling into a cursed tomb and hacking your way through giant serpents of Set to get a treasure at the end, or even exploring a new region and coming across beast-men. It's a dangerous world, if not for the other people than for the monstrosities in it. Even the cities aren't safe as nobles struggle to overthrow each other. This doesn't happen in Arm. The world does not get expanded. An earthquake doesn't open up a hole in the Canyons of Waste that a Salarr family member can fund an expedition into to try to find deposits of metal. There are no highway brigands NPCs, and any players who raid are quickly wiped out. Nobles and templars don't have any actual reason to squabble and one-up each other because they can't be promoted to a higher status or gain more IC power/prestige and getting coded changes implemented is going to be rare, so why should they bother funding things like tarantula clearing to add prestige to their house? I don't mind war, if it manifests itself in ways beyond 50 vs 50 player pvp events where you win if people didn't notice your sdesc in the kill spam. Have Allanaki forces able to raid Tuluki grain stores and get cheaper grain for the city. Tuluk special forces raids an Allanaki armory and now there's cheaper obsidian weapons in the city and Allanaki players have a harder time arming themselves. There's so many options out there beyond culminating in a huge battle that's settled by Deus ex Machina dropping a giant volcano because magic. That's just lazy storytelling. If I posted that on the GDB, I'd be told that this was all possible but I'd have to ~be the change~. I've said it before and I'll say it again: players have become jaded and cynical. Everyone has probably been burned at least once, or seen another player put in the effort to ~be the change~ and jump through the hoops to get things done only to have it blown off. It's shitty. 'Being the change' isn't always fun or enjoyable. I sure don't want to come home and organize a raid or maintain readiness of players if nothing is going to change. But if I can impact things and alter the world in some way, sure I'm willing to give it a shot. It takes effort on both ends, but speaking from the player side of things if I'm not seeing effort on the other side I'm not going to even bother spending my time doing it. |
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Post by lyse on Mar 9, 2014 17:33:10 GMT -5
Players don't want alternatives of conflict, they want straight up war, because that's how Arm is supposed to be...... I'm going to disagree with this. I don't want war, I want adventure. I'm a fan of Conan the Barbarian. Not the character (he's the weakest part), but the setting. Magic is this dangerous, evil force that you're giving up part of your soul to get. There's danger around every corner. Whether it's running into highway robbers or mercenaries looking for an easy score, or stumbling into a cursed tomb and hacking your way through giant serpents of Set to get a treasure at the end, or even exploring a new region and coming across beast-men. It's a dangerous world, if not for the other people than for the monstrosities in it. Even the cities aren't safe as nobles struggle to overthrow each other. This doesn't happen in Arm. The world does not get expanded. An earthquake doesn't open up a hole in the Canyons of Waste that a Salarr family member can fund an expedition into to try to find deposits of metal. There are no highway brigands NPCs, and any players who raid are quickly wiped out. Nobles and templars don't have any actual reason to squabble and one-up each other because they can't be promoted to a higher status or gain more IC power/prestige and getting coded changes implemented is going to be rare, so why should they bother funding things like tarantula clearing to add prestige to their house? I don't mind war, if it manifests itself in ways beyond 50 vs 50 player pvp events where you win if people didn't notice your sdesc in the kill spam. Have Allanaki forces able to raid Tuluki grain stores and get cheaper grain for the city. Tuluk special forces raids an Allanaki armory and now there's cheaper obsidian weapons in the city and Allanaki players have a harder time arming themselves. There's so many options out there beyond culminating in a huge battle that's settled by Deus ex Machina dropping a giant volcano because magic. That's just lazy storytelling. If I posted that on the GDB, I'd be told that this was all possible but I'd have to ~be the change~. I've said it before and I'll say it again: players have become jaded and cynical. Everyone has probably been burned at least once, or seen another player put in the effort to ~be the change~ and jump through the hoops to get things done only to have it blown off. It's shitty. 'Being the change' isn't always fun or enjoyable. I sure don't want to come home and organize a raid or maintain readiness of players if nothing is going to change. But if I can impact things and alter the world in some way, sure I'm willing to give it a shot. It takes effort on both ends, but speaking from the player side of things if I'm not seeing effort on the other side I'm not going to even bother spending my time doing it. Me too jcarter, that exactly how I feel. |
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Post by LordOfChange on Mar 9, 2014 17:41:42 GMT -5
Players don't want alternatives of conflict, they want straight up war, because that's how Arm is supposed to be...... I'm going to disagree with this. I don't want war, I want adventure. I'm a fan of Conan the Barbarian. Not the character (he's the weakest part), but the setting. Magic is this dangerous, evil force that you're giving up part of your soul to get. There's danger around every corner. Whether it's running into highway robbers or mercenaries looking for an easy score, or stumbling into a cursed tomb and hacking your way through giant serpents of Set to get a treasure at the end, or even exploring a new region and coming across beast-men. It's a dangerous world, if not for the other people than for the monstrosities in it. Even the cities aren't safe as nobles struggle to overthrow each other. This doesn't happen in Arm. The world does not get expanded. An earthquake doesn't open up a hole in the Canyons of Waste that a Salarr family member can fund an expedition into to try to find deposits of metal. There are no highway brigands NPCs, and any players who raid are quickly wiped out. Nobles and templars don't have any actual reason to squabble and one-up each other because they can't be promoted to a higher status or gain more IC power/prestige and getting coded changes implemented is going to be rare, so why should they bother funding things like tarantula clearing to add prestige to their house? I don't mind war, if it manifests itself in ways beyond 50 vs 50 player pvp events where you win if people didn't notice your sdesc in the kill spam. Have Allanaki forces able to raid Tuluki grain stores and get cheaper grain for the city. Tuluk special forces raids an Allanaki armory and now there's cheaper obsidian weapons in the city and Allanaki players have a harder time arming themselves. There's so many options out there beyond culminating in a huge battle that's settled by Deus ex Machina dropping a giant volcano because magic. That's just lazy storytelling. If I posted that on the GDB, I'd be told that this was all possible but I'd have to ~be the change~. I've said it before and I'll say it again: players have become jaded and cynical. Everyone has probably been burned at least once, or seen another player put in the effort to ~be the change~ and jump through the hoops to get things done only to have it blown off. It's shitty. 'Being the change' isn't always fun or enjoyable. I sure don't want to come home and organize a raid or maintain readiness of players if nothing is going to change. But if I can impact things and alter the world in some way, sure I'm willing to give it a shot. It takes effort on both ends, but speaking from the player side of things if I'm not seeing effort on the other side I'm not going to even bother spending my time doing it. + a lot |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 18:14:52 GMT -5
The thing is that a war can be done with practically zero handholding or preparatory work, and since you're dealing with a lazy administration, that's probably the main factor in whether or not something can be done. It takes no additional building, little to no animations, and can be carried out by the players without assistance. Obviously it's better to have admins attending and doing some interesting echoes and so forth, but it's not strictly necessary. A war could, in theory, be carried out entirely without staff interference - not that it should, but it'd require a lot less of them than a bunch of elaborately designed adventures or constant politics that must, due to the design of the culture, involve frequent animations of all manner of house NPCs. You're not going to get all sorts of interesting and unique gameplay, that much is obvious by now, and it seems that a conventional war would at least be better than the soulcrushing nothingness which has been the fare for over half a decade.
If I were still playing, I'd give up any hopes of worthwhile "emergent roleplay" unless you're willing to instigate, drive and conclude the whole thing yourself. Staff won't facilitate it, and their practices over the last half-dozen years have completely drained the playerbase of the ambition to do it themselves, too. Armageddon has become like the latter seasons of Dexter: still running, still has people watching, but it has headed down a path which ensures that it's just not going to suddenly get good again. People follow it out of habit (and, in Arm's case, a lack of worthwhile alternatives), not because it's any good. The quality is gone, and that lack of quality keeps it from rising back up again. I frankly don't think there's any bright future for Armageddon, and I think the RPI genre is on its last legs, but if there's anything left to enjoy then it should be done on the existing premises and not the ones one wishes were still there. Forget about adventures unless you're able to create them yourself, because nobody's going to do it for you. That ship has sailed, and most of the quality people were on it.
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Post by tektolnes on Mar 9, 2014 18:26:46 GMT -5
I agree as well. I believe jcarter just won the thread.
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Post by RogueCumSlinger on Mar 9, 2014 18:27:07 GMT -5
Players don't want alternatives of conflict, they want straight up war, because that's how Arm is supposed to be...... I'm going to disagree with this. I don't want war, I want adventure. I'm a fan of Conan the Barbarian. Not the character (he's the weakest part), but the setting. Magic is this dangerous, evil force that you're giving up part of your soul to get. There's danger around every corner. Whether it's running into highway robbers or mercenaries looking for an easy score, or stumbling into a cursed tomb and hacking your way through giant serpents of Set to get a treasure at the end, or even exploring a new region and coming across beast-men. It's a dangerous world, if not for the other people than for the monstrosities in it. Even the cities aren't safe as nobles struggle to overthrow each other. This doesn't happen in Arm. The world does not get expanded. An earthquake doesn't open up a hole in the Canyons of Waste that a Salarr family member can fund an expedition into to try to find deposits of metal. There are no highway brigands NPCs, and any players who raid are quickly wiped out. Nobles and templars don't have any actual reason to squabble and one-up each other because they can't be promoted to a higher status or gain more IC power/prestige and getting coded changes implemented is going to be rare, so why should they bother funding things like tarantula clearing to add prestige to their house? I don't mind war, if it manifests itself in ways beyond 50 vs 50 player pvp events where you win if people didn't notice your sdesc in the kill spam. Have Allanaki forces able to raid Tuluki grain stores and get cheaper grain for the city. Tuluk special forces raids an Allanaki armory and now there's cheaper obsidian weapons in the city and Allanaki players have a harder time arming themselves. There's so many options out there beyond culminating in a huge battle that's settled by Deus ex Machina dropping a giant volcano because magic. That's just lazy storytelling. If I posted that on the GDB, I'd be told that this was all possible but I'd have to ~be the change~. I've said it before and I'll say it again: players have become jaded and cynical. Everyone has probably been burned at least once, or seen another player put in the effort to ~be the change~ and jump through the hoops to get things done only to have it blown off. It's shitty. 'Being the change' isn't always fun or enjoyable. I sure don't want to come home and organize a raid or maintain readiness of players if nothing is going to change. But if I can impact things and alter the world in some way, sure I'm willing to give it a shot. It takes effort on both ends, but speaking from the player side of things if I'm not seeing effort on the other side I'm not going to even bother spending my time doing it. Jcarter, you're my hero. On a different note, Atonement RPI pulled this off rather well on a small scale. Ex. Constantly opening new areas, animating bands of highwaymen, changing family boundaries, etc. granted, this was in a game with only one sphere. |
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Lizzie
Clueless newb
Posts: 199
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Post by Lizzie on Mar 9, 2014 22:42:03 GMT -5
I'm going to disagree with this. I don't want war, I want adventure. I'm a fan of Conan the Barbarian. Not the character (he's the weakest part), but the setting. Magic is this dangerous, evil force that you're giving up part of your soul to get. There's danger around every corner. Whether it's running into highway robbers or mercenaries looking for an easy score, or stumbling into a cursed tomb and hacking your way through giant serpents of Set to get a treasure at the end, or even exploring a new region and coming across beast-men. It's a dangerous world, if not for the other people than for the monstrosities in it. Even the cities aren't safe as nobles struggle to overthrow each other. This doesn't happen in Arm. The world does not get expanded. An earthquake doesn't open up a hole in the Canyons of Waste that a Salarr family member can fund an expedition into to try to find deposits of metal. There are no highway brigands NPCs, and any players who raid are quickly wiped out. Nobles and templars don't have any actual reason to squabble and one-up each other because they can't be promoted to a higher status or gain more IC power/prestige and getting coded changes implemented is going to be rare, so why should they bother funding things like tarantula clearing to add prestige to their house? I don't mind war, if it manifests itself in ways beyond 50 vs 50 player pvp events where you win if people didn't notice your sdesc in the kill spam. Have Allanaki forces able to raid Tuluki grain stores and get cheaper grain for the city. Tuluk special forces raids an Allanaki armory and now there's cheaper obsidian weapons in the city and Allanaki players have a harder time arming themselves. There's so many options out there beyond culminating in a huge battle that's settled by Deus ex Machina dropping a giant volcano because magic. That's just lazy storytelling. If I posted that on the GDB, I'd be told that this was all possible but I'd have to ~be the change~. I've said it before and I'll say it again: players have become jaded and cynical. Everyone has probably been burned at least once, or seen another player put in the effort to ~be the change~ and jump through the hoops to get things done only to have it blown off. It's shitty. 'Being the change' isn't always fun or enjoyable. I sure don't want to come home and organize a raid or maintain readiness of players if nothing is going to change. But if I can impact things and alter the world in some way, sure I'm willing to give it a shot. It takes effort on both ends, but speaking from the player side of things if I'm not seeing effort on the other side I'm not going to even bother spending my time doing it. Jcarter, you're my hero. On a different note, Atonement RPI pulled this off rather well on a small scale. Ex. Constantly opening new areas, animating bands of highwaymen, changing family boundaries, etc. granted, this was in a game with only one sphere. On average, Atonement had less people per sphere than Arm does. Arm staff could do what Atonement staff did. They just won't. |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Mar 11, 2014 22:47:30 GMT -5
Honestly, if they really want to make the world smaller they should make it more dangerous. By reopening the gith and mantis to players. why the fuck is there even a mantis on the new Arm site? Theyve been closed for almost 2 decades. Is there a problem with having Allanak and Antiallanak? Yeah. it's that the latter is too far from the former. What we cant understand conflict unless its some literary mirror image shit? Fuck that. The gith and mantis are more culturally alien than tuluk could ever be. I agree on Mantis/Gith part. But I don't think Tuluk needs closed/nuked or whatever. I'm not advocating closing Tuluk. I'm saying the world would be smaller if travel was way more dangerous. And the best danger is PCs. Not the most danger, the best danger. Because it creates a feedback loop of activity. tuluk came up because of all the attention it's getting lately. New uniforms for the templar wtfbbqlol!!! I'm just saying they could accomplish more with less work by reopening the gith and mantis. |
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Post by lulz on Mar 11, 2014 22:50:44 GMT -5
They had something great with the halflings.
Edited to add: Hell, I think it'd be grand to open the Thryzn and have them move to the southern edge of the Grey.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 0:53:12 GMT -5
What would that achieve? Grey Forest is too rich and wonderful to allow free and easy passage. So Thryzn would just end up being new Kryl. Much like Kryl replaced aggro halflings.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 1:01:03 GMT -5
What would that achieve? Grey Forest is too rich and wonderful to allow free and easy passage. So Thryzn would just end up being new Kryl. Much like Kryl replaced aggro halflings. This is the case pretty much. The staff want there to be scary aggro critters in the Grey to keep people out/make it super difficult to access the area. If one thing gets moved out, it will just be another, really. While I don't necessarily agree with it (I don't disagree, but I feel like it could be handled better), I can confirm that as of the admin before Nyr, I was told that this would be the case for the Grey pretty much indefinitely. |
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