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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 11:28:16 GMT -5
Trade doesn't even come close to being the cause of what's wrong with Armageddon, nor does money really do much to further plots. It might if it wasn't so easy to get rich as soon as you know a few tricks, but since it is, few really care about 'sid and won't let their characters get swayed by it.
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Post by lyse on Mar 5, 2014 11:34:55 GMT -5
I still say they should end the"war" plot and open up trade between Allanak and Tuluk. Actually, they should make travel between the two cities easier so materials could be more accessible for crafters, making GMH grow. Get some intercity alliances and conflicts going so that clanned members have something to do, indie hunters and scavengers too. 'Sid will flow and it would also grow player run plots. Could even throw some kind of outside NPC threat to bring that story to fruition, that way it would still be dangerous and challenging to gather materials, but still have that under the surface politicking going on at the same time. Land grabs, skirmishes, exploration....everything would be possible and people still get to play in their favorite city-state. Seems easy to me. Travel in general, and for GMH's in specific, is ridiculously easy already. Saying 'sid will flow' as if any PC older than a month wasn't ridiculously rich already is silly. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 14:06:36 GMT -5
So one says, that nuking parts of the world to 'consolidate' the world is silly, as diluting the playerbase isnt a thing. Another says to nuke Tuluk. The third one says that conflict of war is no fun, and there should be peace and cooperation, others say there is not enough conflict and grit and the world's a soup kitchen. Awesome, sounds like a plan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 16:11:21 GMT -5
Really? Because to me, it sounds like opinions. Go figure, opinions posted on a board to share opinions. What kind of psychic fuck would it take to predict this shit? Because it just straight blows me away. I could never have seen it coming. Also could not have seen coming: that people disagree.
Damn you're good. I don't even know how you managed to MAKE a plan out of that, but you got my vote. Totally srsly. Such thoughtful, much serious, very listening.
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Post by RogueCumSlinger on Mar 5, 2014 17:20:42 GMT -5
NO OPINIONS ALLOWED FUCKERS!!11!
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Post by lulz on Mar 5, 2014 20:11:57 GMT -5
I still say they should end the"war" plot and open up trade between Allanak and Tuluk. Actually, they should make travel between the two cities easier so materials could be more accessible for crafters, making GMH grow. Get some intercity alliances and conflicts going so that clanned members have something to do, indie hunters and scavengers too. 'Sid will flow and it would also grow player run plots. Could even throw some kind of outside NPC threat to bring that story to fruition, that way it would still be dangerous and challenging to gather materials, but still have that under the surface politicking going on at the same time. Land grabs, skirmishes, exploration....everything would be possible and people still get to play in their favorite city-state. Seems easy to me. This would defeat the intended purpose of Armageddon. I respectfully disagree. Being nice does not embody the murder, corruption, betrayal concept. |
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Post by lyse on Mar 5, 2014 21:45:13 GMT -5
Not sure if serious.
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Post by lulz on Mar 5, 2014 22:05:53 GMT -5
The second half is fine. The first half? No. Wage all out war and bury Tuluk. It's been needed for years now.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Mar 5, 2014 22:42:46 GMT -5
Diluting the player base isn't a thing, and you should feel bad for even thinking it. I must respectfully disagree. Dilution is absolutely real. Where peopel are mistaken is how the playerbase gets diluted. Arm's staff follows this self-destructibe model of dilution: - Make it so people can't do anything big as indies.
- Make it so clans can't do anything without permission.
- Take forever to deny requests.
- Make the world harder to force more people into clans,
- Make the world easier to reduce plater turnover
- Refuse to automate things in the game so that indies wouldn't need support
- Close apartments so indies can't simulate having facilities and game on their own
- Refuse to do things for indies because clans exist to reduce your workload.
- Remind clan leaders to be patient because youre a busy volunteer
- Tell people to be the change they want in the game instead of complaining of inactivity
Staff unlogic works on this principal. Activity requires heavy regulation. They make it impossible to make your own activity in a way that should require a reaction from the world. yet they also make it so clans don't have activity. This sometimes results in a bad PC leader/templar. they start dicking with people becayse it's the only thing listed as part of their role they can accomplish without Central Services approval stamp on their 27B-6. the end result is you are slowly encouraged to find some way to play the fuck away from their meddling. Their interference. Their random, stupid bullshit. It tends to manifest in rangers and RSV players. People just staying the fuck out of crowded areas. So player dilution is real. it's caused by forcing everyone into clans too important to risk letting players do anything unsanctioned in. It's caused by silly notions that there's less work in forcing people to demand more workd from you and then not doing it. The worst thing is is not all the staff. i feel terrible for good Storytellers. Really? Because to me, it sounds like opinions. Go figure, opinions posted on a board to share opinions. What kind of psychic fuck would it take to predict this shit? Because it just straight blows me away. I could never have seen it coming. Also could not have seen coming: that people disagree. Damn you're good. I don't even know how you managed to MAKE a plan out of that, but you got my vote. Totally srsly. Such thoughtful, much serious, very listening. Check your skills. I think you hit master in Sarcasm. it branches into trolling and shittalk.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2014 22:53:38 GMT -5
Not with you though, BitterFlashback. You, I love. Especially after the comment you just posted, that I could not agree more with. RE the trolling and shittalk: I branched those ages ago, I just maxxed them so I don't need to grind them anymore. That's why I only trot them out when someone uses them and set up a like begets like feedback loop of negativity. |
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Post by tektolnes on Mar 6, 2014 1:46:31 GMT -5
I actually enjoy the way things are, at the moment, between Allanak and Tuluk. When players refer to it, they say Allanak and Tuluk are "at war", which they technically always should be. Sure, this war had only one battle, but in the aftermath of it, the North and South have been FAR more hostile to one another, which I think is great. Sure, people have always been xenophobic of characters with different accents, but now a days it's escalated to the level of full on paranoia. I've personally witnessed a few characters getting beaten, branded, or even executed for minor crimes committed in the opposing city.
It's awesome. And if you're going to have two cities, you might as well have them in this state. It actually makes the game harsher because it cuts out that trade and limits some resources. The effects of this are definitely felt more in the South than in the north, since there's basically no wood or hide to be found South of Luirs, and no one really needs obsidian for anything.
At this stage of the game, I think nuking Tuluk would feel a bit forced and strange, but I can definitely see how it would help the political intrigue scene in the remaining area. I just wish they would balance the areas a little, because right now Tuluk doesn't really need anything from Allanak, where as southern merchants who want to branch club making or armor crafting almost have to send out raiders to get wood and hides.
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delerak
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Mar 6, 2014 7:08:30 GMT -5
And this is what I have a problem with. Arguably the best material in the game for making weapons and it's not needed. It's bullshit. In Darksun Urik was the city-state with the obsidian mines and it was a huge deal. Everybody wanted to get their hands on the obsidian weapons made in Urrik because they were the sharpest deadliest of any weapon anywhere. Unfortunately I don't think the code even takes into consideration the fact that obsidian is that sharp and useful.
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Post by lyse on Mar 6, 2014 9:23:31 GMT -5
I actually enjoy the way things are, at the moment, between Allanak and Tuluk. When players refer to it, they say Allanak and Tuluk are "at war", which they technically always should be. Sure, this war had only one battle, but in the aftermath of it, the North and South have been FAR more hostile to one another, which I think is great. Sure, people have always been xenophobic of characters with different accents, but now a days it's escalated to the level of full on paranoia. I've personally witnessed a few characters getting beaten, branded, or even executed for minor crimes committed in the opposing city. It's awesome. And if you're going to have two cities, you might as well have them in this state. It actually makes the game harsher because it cuts out that trade and limits some resources. The effects of this are definitely felt more in the South than in the north, since there's basically no wood or hide to be found South of Luirs, and no one really needs obsidian for anything. At this stage of the game, I think nuking Tuluk would feel a bit forced and strange, but I can definitely see how it would help the political intrigue scene in the remaining area. I just wish they would balance the areas a little, because right now Tuluk doesn't really need anything from Allanak, where as southern merchants who want to branch club making or armor crafting almost have to send out raiders to get wood and hides. I'm not sure why Allanak and Tuluk should always be at war. Wars are expensive and even in a magical setting, use up resources. Can't perpetually be in a state of war because well...it doesn't make sense. so let's talk about sense for a minute. Ok, cool we're at war, that's not going to change because Lyse wants it to. All the "war" means is you can't go to the opposing city-state, if you're unlucky enough to wander into 'nak or Tuluk, you'll get fucked up. While you might see that as harsh and gritty, I don't, I see it as an unnecessary restriction. Not harsh and gritty at all, and when I see those words "Harsh and Gritty" I laugh to myself, sometimes I LOL. Because really, if you wanted to wander into the opposing city state, you could...just shut the fuck up, do your business and be out. How about an internment camp? Lots of RP potential there. You're from 'nak? Internment camp. I just feel there are lots of ways to make the war feel like a war, that are simply not being done. So ultimately....why have it? Let's move on to balance of the war. I'm getting the sense that Tuluk is going to "win" this war. Like I said before, wars cost resources and money. Tuluk has plenty of resources, while Allanak has.....exactly. From a coded standpoint in Tuluk, you are restricted from certain areas if you don't have a tattoo. Where are the checkpoints in Allanak where they, you know.....check for freakin tattoos? It's the little coded love there that says Tuluk is going to win. I'm not even going to get into how wars are handled. There are ways to deal with them where ultimately the players decide who wins on every level. But let's look at the last couple. Copper war, lolwhut? Not sure what the end result was, besides a large death toll. The Tuluki occupation, that one was good, because the effects were felt and it created plots. I think a big problem here is the coded/RP disconnect. I'm talking about actually RPing things out or at least laying out paths that could open up possibilities. But all I'm hearing is "nuh-uh, you can be rich or travel easily now!" People are going to always exploit the code, can't fix that. Allanak and Tuluk are supposed to be hundreds of miles away, but you can codedly walk them in a day. That's just not fixable. Sure you can plop more gith along the routes, cause that's harsh and gritty....I'll just find away around them if I really wanted to go. Yeah, you can make the the mobs in the outside world tougher, because the world needs to be tougher....I'll just twink until I can kill them. Can't codedly fix these things....just fix the damned RP. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 10:44:19 GMT -5
I really enjoyed playing in the Northlands before Tuluk was rebuilt/Reborn. There was a wild west feel that one can't really get anywhere else besides maybe Red Storm. There was localized conflict with the rebellion and the occupying Allanaki forces. While I liked this I don't think destroying Tuluk is the best answer. Tuluk (and Allanak) needs more localized conflict. Something that allows players to choose sides of a conflict, or get caught in the middle.
The "war" between Tuluk and Allanak does a good job of making the world seem a little larger and creates conflict at the same time. This war could be a great opportunity to make Tuluk a little less easy by having some of their resource either destroyed or made less easy to acquire. What would happen if Allanak burned down (either partially or in whole) the Grey Forest or the grasslands? That'd make Tuluk Angry and maybe a few bards or other artists would go hungry as a result. A resource shortage would begin to cut into Tuluk's ability to wage war. This would make Tuluk a little less easy. There are things that could be done to make Tuluk a little more dangerous too, like maybe reintroducing the kryl patrols (or some other badies) into the surrounding areas. If there are resources somewhere, there should be dangers. Allanak doesn't have many resources around it, if it did there should also be more dangers to balance them.
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Post by tektolnes on Mar 6, 2014 14:34:06 GMT -5
lyse - I think one popular school of thought amongst some Armageddon players, and members of this board predominantly, is that we like conflict. We're not necessarily saying that Allanak and Tuluk have to be at war, we're saying that we want them to be. Although, in a lot of ways, I think war makes more sense than the alternative (peace). Sure, peace is good for trade, but traders don't rule Zalanthas - Sorcerer Kings do. And Sorcerer Kings don't particularly care what is good for their people. (Well, maybe Utep does, but he's a fal.) Perhaps "at war" isn't the proper term, since, yeah, we can't have player-base cleansing battles every other month and still make the game fun and playable. The proper term is probably "open hostility." This makes sense in both the far-back history of Zalanthas, as well as the scope of recent events. Since the MUD began North and South have been at it, and the only reason this changed was because they decided to team up against whatever apocalyptic boogey-man the imms were planning to introduce in the '06 Reborn phase. That phase is gone, time to get back to the run of things. And sure, open hostility isn't fool proof. If I wanted to wander into the opposing city state, you bet your sweet ass I could. I could ride into Allanak, sell all the empty wooden chests and crates my star-inked hands could carry, hitch up my mount, and ride back out. Hell, odds are I could do this at peak and no one would ever noticed. But go sit in the Gaj once at any time remotely resembling peak hours. You probably won't get killed, but you'll see rinthis, gemmers, and commoners all ban together with the unifying opinion that your the most objectionable character in the room. Odds are you might even get questioned by a Templar. You might not like this, but some of us do. It is "gritty" and "harsh." (Not referring to the slogan on Arm.org) And yes, the battles of this "war" are definitely just Immortal light shows. Not at all player controlled. However, without trying to spoil to much, this conflict does and has created other RP plotlines. There have been pro-city groups sprouting up in the midst of this. The North is now without a mercenary company - someone could sure as HELL try and fix that. I've seen plotlines going for southern persons and/or resource raiders. (Not sure if any are currently active.) There are plenty of niches that can be filled in this conflict BY PLAYERS. I personally believe that peace will just funnel more players into GMHs, which does not a player-run game world make. As @jenki noted, the war has, in a counter-intuitive way, made the world seam larger. My character can no longer ride straight up to the gates of the other city one day, buy an item for less than I'd have to pay in the other city, and then ride right back the next. The opposing region is now this foreign and dangerous place, not to be triffled with idly. And this is what I have a problem with. Arguably the best material in the game for making weapons and it's not needed. It's bullshit. In Darksun Urik was the city-state with the obsidian mines and it was a huge deal. Everybody wanted to get their hands on the obsidian weapons made in Urrik because they were the sharpest deadliest of any weapon anywhere. Unfortunately I don't think the code even takes into consideration the fact that obsidian is that sharp and useful. Agreed. Obsidian is naturally jagged, and naturally sharp. It's glass, only MUCH harder. If edged obsidian weapons had a bonus to damage and/or armor piercing it would not only be realistic, it would give Allanak a real resource to benefit from. Because, honestly, if you wanted to try and stab my chitin armor with a bone-tipped spear, I could probably just stand there and let you. I honestly don't think it would go through. It wouldn't balance the cities out completely, but it would be a step in the right direction. Also, I like the idea of burning the grey forest - at least the outer edges. Drive the harvestable wood back, closer to the kryl hives. And let the combined ash from that fire and the volcano kill much of the southern and western scrub plains. *rolls up a krathi ... *
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