Lizzie
Clueless newb
Posts: 199
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Post by Lizzie on Feb 12, 2014 1:29:13 GMT -5
The ability to see when an item provides bonuses would be nice. Or to compare one item with another.
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 552
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Post by Patuk on Feb 14, 2014 12:09:15 GMT -5
I actually think sparring NPC's is a wonderful idea. There already is code in some clans that makes slaves haul dummies in and out at the appropriate times of the day; make it so that the sparring NPC's would only be there when your schedule lists training. You'd not have the issue of people using them to skillup 24/7, and you'd solve the problem of PC soldiers being ridiculously weak compared to the one guy who sometimes kills gurth as well.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 15, 2014 0:45:01 GMT -5
Honestly? They need to stop having everyone's skills at chargen be crap. I get that it's to slow griefers down. Ignore them. They can always be flagged to start small. For every other player: why in the hell is every unsponsored character required to be a novice?
The longer you play the game without abusing bugs the higher your starting skill levels should be. Maybe affect it by age to keep out the obnoxious prodigy players. I'm serious.
Say your account's 2 years old and you're not a code abuser. Why not be able to start with a +30 to all skills? Because they would be too many useful people? Because every clan would become less basic-training-oriented and more clan-goal-oriented? Because older players might feel valued even if they weren't noticed for karma? Because the game is powered by grinding and the power would go out? Because someone might not take a few weeks off and quit when their character dies since they've been spared 20+ hours of bullshit before their new character can pursue its new character goal?
Maybe make it where you can pick how much of a boost it is. Cap the max based on account age minus penalties for code abuse.
I get the setting is from AD&D. that doesn't mean everyone should start at level 1. When you tabletop RP you do it WITH FRIENDS. If you die it's expected you'll REJOIN YOUR FRIENDS. When your new character shows up THE LEVEL IS COMPARABLE. That is entirely unlike Arm. Long-time clan members aren't supposed to rejoin that clan with a new character for a while. So say you die. You restart alone. At level fucking 1. Alone.
The only problem I can see is it'd be easier to give players favoritism. They already get boosts from favoritism now. They have for years. So I don't care that my suggestion would streamline on-going abuse.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 0:49:57 GMT -5
SoI tied stats and skills roughly to playtime (and "karma") like that. I hated it. It protected the veterans from competition, when they didnt need any more advantages.
As much as I dislike the three to six month grind to recover from a character death, at least everyone else has to do it. Everyone down in the mud.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 15, 2014 1:05:06 GMT -5
SoI tied stats and skills roughly to playtime (and "karma") like that. I hated it. It protected the veterans from competition, when they didnt need any more advantages. Fair points. I'd counter that in Arm people seem to diverge with age. You'd wind up with more skilled enemies of each other in this mostly empty world. They'd still start over with crap resources and have to avoid rejoining their previous clan. Also I haven't play SoI in forever but I remember it being less a less slow-paced, hostile environ game than Arm. As much as I dislike the three to six month grind to recover from a character death, at least everyone else has to do it. Everyone down in the mud. Unless you're already getting favoritism. Or playing a sponsored role. Admittedly the latter is somewhat redundant to the former.
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bobo
Clueless newb
Posts: 58
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Post by bobo on Feb 15, 2014 12:31:58 GMT -5
I get the setting is from AD&D. that doesn't mean everyone should start at level 1. When you tabletop RP you do it WITH FRIENDS. If you die it's expected you'll REJOIN YOUR FRIENDS. When your new character shows up THE LEVEL IS COMPARABLE. That is entirely unlike Arm. Long-time clan members aren't supposed to rejoin that clan with a new character for a while. So say you die. You restart alone. At level fucking 1. Alone. Of course that's "entirely unlike Arm." That is a terrible model for Arm to follow. Arm would suck if, after Amos dies, Amos2 comes around to hang out with all the same people. Basically, your gripe with having to start over with a new character is a gripe against permdeath. There are a ton of non-permdeath MUDs. Play one of those if that's what you're looking for. I more or less agree on skill levels, although to be fair, almost every class does start out decent at something. PPs start with steal at a very usable level. Burglars start with pick at a decent level. Should no thief ever have to risk getting crimmed because their skills started out high enough to never crit fail? Warriors start out good at guard and with solid off/def that make them useful combatants from day 1. Assassins start with all crap skills, but they do get a nice offense boost. Not sure about merchants, but their haggle is probably good, and merchants make so much coin they hardly need a skill boost. There's also the reality that many players are achievement oriented, and when there are no more skills left to maxx, they get bored.
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Lizzie
Clueless newb
Posts: 199
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Post by Lizzie on Feb 15, 2014 14:36:23 GMT -5
There's also the reality that many players are achievement oriented, and when there are no more skills left to maxx, they get bored. Incorrect-- They figure out if terradin and perraine stack, and try to solo meks via anorexia. Also, Dark Sun technically started everyone at level 3. This is poorly represented, if the case in Arm.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 15, 2014 15:11:24 GMT -5
Basically, your gripe with having to start over with a new character is a gripe against permdeath. There are a ton of non-permdeath MUDs. Play one of those if that's what you're looking for. If that is genuinely what you believe my gripe was you need to read what I wrote a tiny bit more closely. Or stop huffing paint. If you're just trolling, good show on paragraph one, but please be less blatantly obvious.
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 552
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Post by Patuk on Feb 15, 2014 17:11:17 GMT -5
I'm just dropping in here to say that sponsored roles get godawful skill boosts. My sponsored sergeant(I'm not naming the clan) got beaten around by newbs because they had better stat rolls than he did. Couple that with a large inability to train and you're really better off starting as a nobody if you want to have a strong character.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 17:13:16 GMT -5
The premise that starting skills of steal on PP, pick on burglars, and ... guard on warrior are 'useable" is kind of ridiculous in my opinion. Maybe with high stats they are somehow 'okey'. But they are a 'far' cry from useable.
A mid to high level of journeyman is the 'beginnings' of useable with plenty of room for crit fails. The beginning levels of any guild failure rate is about 85% at least, with average stat.
Dont get me wrong. I like how skills are. I like the fact that its possible for a 3 year old unkillable warrior to get 1 hour HG subdue/critted to death (I'm not joking) and his next character will be no different then any other new players, unless special effort is made to make it different (special apps, extended subguilds, skill ups, etc).
But Bobo's statement about beginning skills are 'way' off.
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bobo
Clueless newb
Posts: 58
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Post by bobo on Feb 15, 2014 18:22:07 GMT -5
Newbie PP steal is perfectly usable unless you have godawful dex (a variable that is largely within your control) or you are trying to steal things that are too difficult to steal (a variable that is entirely within your control). If you focus on coins and small inventory objects, it can even be difficult to generate fails from the very beginning. I've done it. Hell, I've had success at lifting coins, small inventory objects, and even some belted object with subguild steal and crappy dex. It seems like people have very unrealistic expectations of what a decent level of skill is. Of course if you start off trying for heavy items and things worn on belts, you will think that you suck. Of course there is a chance of critical failure. Do you think there shouldn't be?
I'm also certain that if any player with some longevity was allowed to roll up a master thief/assassin, you fuckers would be in here crying tears of blood and blaming staff for favoritism toward old players and the grave injustice towards newbies. (And you'd be right.)
If you insist, I can explain the implications of your post and the vast differences between tabletop RP and MUDs that bear on your idea. And I'll do it using your post.
You are correct that tabletop RP is done between friends, and in person. That is a difference. In Arm, you are also playing with many strangers who you may never know. Tabletop RP is primarily PvE. In Arm, the heart of the game is in PvP conflict.
So, you are suggesting a system, like tabletop, where when a PC dies, they "REJOIN [their] FRIENDS" at a "LEVEL [that] IS COMPARABLE". This is a bad idea for a Permdeath PvP Roleplaying MUD like Arm. Suppose you are part of a group of PCs that is engaged in a conflict with another group of PCs. You plot out an assassination of one of their key people. You pull it off, hurrah! Well, now they reroll a new PC and REJOIN THEIR FRIENDS AT A LEVEL THAT IS COMPARABLE. Do you see the problem yet? This isn't tabletop where you are playing against a bunch of monsters imagined by a GM. You are playing with, and more importantly against other players, who are pursuing their own goals. Under your system, the strongest PC groups would be the ones using those cheeseball tactics to negate the entire point of permdeath.
NO SHIT SHERLOCK. That's called permdeath, and that is what you are expressing a problem with. If you want to play tabletop, play tabletop. If you want to play a MUD where you don't have to restart alone when you die, go play one. There is literally nothing stopping you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 19:42:57 GMT -5
Why is anyone wasting time arguing with some contrary asshole who has no idea what he's talking about?
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Post by BitterFlashback on Feb 15, 2014 20:18:16 GMT -5
I doubled down on my fucking stupidity. Also I dissected your post even though reading it without context is what made me make an ass of myself the first time. I see that the GDB is strong with this one. Why is anyone wasting time arguing with some contrary asshole who has no idea what he's talking about? I really don't know. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt. He's clearly stupid.
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bobo
Clueless newb
Posts: 58
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Post by bobo on Feb 16, 2014 11:54:48 GMT -5
I was perfectly polite until I was accused of "huffing paint" for disagreeing with *part* of BF's post. And the rest of you, you've played Arm. If you could look beyond your deep bandwagon desire to hate all things Armageddon and the way it currently works, you would realize that it is a horrendously bad idea for dead PCs to reroll replacements at a comparable level of skill and go immediately rejoin their friends, which is what BF is *explicitly* advocating.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 16, 2014 12:08:45 GMT -5
bobo did you as an ex-staff member get banned from playing Arm for discussing game mechanics and skills on this board like Anaiah did or is your account still fine?
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