bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 131
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Post by bebop on Feb 27, 2023 10:39:10 GMT -5
Not really sure how to feel right now. Emphasizing that all of these step downs were voluntary and not at all apologizing or addressing the experience I had is ... strange. Around the time this was announced I was then banned from the Armageddon server. Which, to me, says you can talk about your sexual harassment but you'll still be punished and resented for it. I'd like to interpret it differently, but unless staff reach out and humanize this thing I'm not really sure how to feel. It's a very mixed message.
The other thing I found out this morning is that the GDB name Shalooonsh was using to post as Kitanius was (I shit you not) Cowboy Bebop. What the fuck? Why? This has been my handle since 2002 and the name I go by in real life. What the hell?
My goal here wasn't punishment, my goal here was culture change. So right now, I'm not really sure how to feel considering they're saying this was voluntary and then banning me.
Update: I have also been banned from posting on the forums.
So yeah, loud and clear. I'm not wanted in the community because I was one of the victims of sexual harassment and I actually had the audacity to post about it with screen shots. To me, that's pretty incredible. You let me be meta-gamed into the dirt, creeped on and harassed and by one of your devs then you ban me from your community. You're letting all victims of this know that they can't speak out, and if they do so they will be shunned from the community.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,708
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 27, 2023 10:59:25 GMT -5
Hestia having a normal one and blaming recent staff changes on the fact that people who get sexually harassed complain too much and don't press enough charges, apparently.  |
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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 27, 2023 11:00:58 GMT -5
'Hey Therapist, a guy who consistently sexually harasses women is admin of a type-game online'
Also IIRC Hestia is an old ass white women, she should know quite plainly that how you use words and the words you use have a lot of power over things.
Saying 'ACTUALLY that serious' is uh
Kinda fucked up.
You are either implying, implicitly saying, or stupid as fuck-ly, suggesting that the plethora of nonsense we have (That apparently is so prevalent that Shalooonsh isn't even willing t defend himself) regarding this isn't important/real/doesn't matter.
This is a text game. With logs. Clearly Shalooonsh can just post the logs of his 'totally-not-a-rapist' character...not being a rapist? Right?
Or he can dip immediately when he realizes in his masturbation session haze he went too far. Lol.
The only thing that makes this funnier is if staff suggested he 'voluntarily leave', it would complete the circle of staff being a police union.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Feb 27, 2023 11:37:30 GMT -5
it's truly exhausting watching this cycle play out again
at least, for the time being, some of them have stepped down, which is a tangible positive
but then they turn around and bungle nearly every other aspect of it
banning bebop, yet again hurling blame at someone trying to get a complaint heard, shabago with his "i dont have the patience for this anymore" nonsense on discord
even in a situation as clear-cut as this, one dude that is known for being weird, being weird as fuck with someone he has had history with and being weird IC and OOC, it's just weird
the whole thing's weird, and the rest of the staff are just carrying on like it's not weird even though he was caught in 4k being weird
and a chunk of the pbase either pretending or laughably believing that any of this would have gone anywhere at all if a complaint were filed through the request tool
it makes no sense
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,708
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 27, 2023 11:46:25 GMT -5
IMO it makes perfect sense if you consider the following:
1) the staff see themselves as both in charge and infallible
2) most of the players that play the game take an "ignorance is bliss" approach and just don't care about their fellow players and what happens to them
3) of the few players that participate in the community, most are unwilling to criticize staff
In any setting, that would result in a power tripping staff body where some players regularly join the staff in shouting down other players. That it happens in Arm so quickly is only because the community has been trained into it over the past decade and a half or so, maybe more.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Feb 27, 2023 11:49:40 GMT -5
My thoughts on this whole thing.
If ever there was an example to not be romantically involved with players on the game you're running I suppose this is it.
Personal life stuff on discord? I have a discord I run and if someone wants to share something I'm all ears. I suppose I'm just like that, I also share details of my life if I'm feeling so inclined, that's what makes a community, well communal? Of course you don't have to, but admonishing it or saying it is bad form or whatever Hestia was trying to do seems silly to me. Complete nonsense. You're welcome to your anonymity but others are also welcome to share their life with others on the internet, that's all some people have.
I'm actually disappointed that Nessalin is gone believe it or not. Had my fair share of run ins with the guy but I felt he was a net positive more than negative of course people will disagree. He was the ying to my yang, the black to my white. It's the end of an era I suppose.
At the end of the day I do not envy the herculean task before Halaster and Brokkr. I actually hope they can somehow turn around Arm from here on out. They have an opportunity to do so but as I've said this before I won't hold my breath.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 27, 2023 11:55:29 GMT -5
I'm not really sure how this is a case of 'not be romantically involved', if I recall a majority of Shalooonsh's creepy behavior is against people he has no actual relationship with (And even if he did, it's still harassment)
Unless you are referring to something else and I'm just misreading it.
I think there's probably 3 paths here, and of course there are more versions of this.
1: Staff start to improve their relations and begin a more open honesty policy.
Why this may or may not happen: Bebop was already banned again and Hestia is denying allegations in the discord. She is literally defending a guy who was accused of being a sleazeball, who then fled to avoid being accused again. A sleazeball that should have logs. However you spin this, its incompetency or running from consequences.
2: Nothing really changes.
Why this may or may not happen: Because life is a cycle of suffering and the Buddha hasn't shown up yet, this kinda shit has been happening nonstop. Nothing is new under the sun.
3: This continues, or expedites, the collapse of the game.
Why this may or may not happen: The game is already losing players, we've had yet another sexual abuse allegation and their response isn't even that uplifting to people who want accountability. They 'removed' (Not really) the guy which is a short term 'oh thats good' and then immediately banned the accuser, started shit talking the situation in the discord.
If anything this outcome could have been one of the worse versions of it. As it more or less matches as 'We found that we did nothing wrong, regardless of how we did nothing wrong we uhhhh voluntarily moved some people around, also this situation was not our fault at all'.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Feb 27, 2023 12:10:15 GMT -5
From what I understand the situation presented before us in this thread started IRL. I don't believe for a second that Shalooonsh logs into Arm and says to themself I'm gonna go sexual harass everyone today. Or hey let's run from rape plots. Obviously Bebops situation is fucked and he deserves to be off staff in general, people deserve apologies etc etc etc. Until people come forward with actual evidence like Bebop has with logs of him waying stuff like he did knowing she could hear I will believe this is an isolated incident.
My point stands that staff just shouldn't ever be involved with players like that. But I understand some people are lonely and it happens it just should be a rule if you get involved with players you're gone. Of course Arm never had a heavy handed policy with their staff, they're allowed to do just about whatever they want and face zero repercussions so yeah
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Feb 27, 2023 12:17:15 GMT -5
Of course Arm never had a heavy handed policy with their staff, they're allowed to do just about whatever they want and face zero repercussions so yeah When you join staff, or at least when I did, you are told you do not have to pursue any RP or storylines or do anything that you do not want to besides answer requests. I would hope that's changed, and if it hasn't yet, maybe it will now. (Who am I fooling?) |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Feb 27, 2023 12:18:51 GMT -5
Of course Arm never had a heavy handed policy with their staff, they're allowed to do just about whatever they want and face zero repercussions so yeah When you join staff, or at least when I did, you are told you do not have to pursue any RP or storylines or do anything that you do not want to besides answer requests. I would hope that's changed, and if it hasn't yet, maybe it will now. (Who am I fooling?) Yeah I'm aware of that. Been pkilled enough by staff avatars to know how it works by now. |
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Feb 27, 2023 12:20:11 GMT -5
When you join staff, or at least when I did, you are told you do not have to pursue any RP or storylines or do anything that you do not want to besides answer requests. I would hope that's changed, and if it hasn't yet, maybe it will now. (Who am I fooling?) Yeah I'm aware of that. Been pkilled enough by staff avatars to know how it works by now. Oh, well, that was SUPPOSED to have been reworked after Nergal picked off quite a few PCs with NPCs, heh. I never did it myself, I thought it was a terrible way to go, but I guess it's just unsurprising that nothing has changed, despite all the lip service. I dunno. I think the game is shot. I don't trust Halaster, and I sure as SHIT don't trust Brokkr who had the nastiest replies to me in a simple request ever about this time last year. He's absolutely vile. And his fanfiction sucks. Who the fuck refers to a toddler as being attractive and has a whole story about a sexy prepubescent girl? A creep, that's who. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Feb 27, 2023 12:27:44 GMT -5
Yeah I'm aware of that. Been pkilled enough by staff avatars to know how it works by now. Oh, well, that was SUPPOSED to have been reworked after Nergal picked off quite a few PCs with NPCs, heh. I never did it myself, I thought it was a terrible way to go, but I guess it's just unsurprising that nothing has changed, despite all the lip service. I dunno. I think the game is shot. I don't trust Halaster, and I sure as SHIT don't trust Brokkr who had the nastiest replies to me in a simple request ever about this time last year. He's absolutely vile. And his fanfiction sucks. Who the fuck refers to a toddler as being attractive and has a whole story about a sexy prepubescent girl? A creep, that's who. Well there's your problem, you still care about the game. Despite popular belief here I think most people here don't care much about the game anymore. I know I certainly don't. I care about the players that come here cause I'm interested in their stories and that's about it. I like hearing what people have to say about MUDs and Arm since I played them for so long. I would never attempt to talk to anyone from Arm thru the request tool anymore. I still post my thoughts on the GDB from time to time but I doubt it will ever do any good. |
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Feb 27, 2023 12:36:07 GMT -5
Oh, well, that was SUPPOSED to have been reworked after Nergal picked off quite a few PCs with NPCs, heh. I never did it myself, I thought it was a terrible way to go, but I guess it's just unsurprising that nothing has changed, despite all the lip service. I dunno. I think the game is shot. I don't trust Halaster, and I sure as SHIT don't trust Brokkr who had the nastiest replies to me in a simple request ever about this time last year. He's absolutely vile. And his fanfiction sucks. Who the fuck refers to a toddler as being attractive and has a whole story about a sexy prepubescent girl? A creep, that's who. Well there's your problem, you still care about the game. Despite popular belief here I think most people here don't care much about the game anymore. I know I certainly don't. I care about the players that come here cause I'm interested in their stories and that's about it. I like hearing what people have to say about MUDs and Arm since I played them for so long. I would never attempt to talk to anyone from Arm thru the request tool anymore. I still post my thoughts on the GDB from time to time but I doubt it will ever do any good. I care about the game in that I adore its setting and I like most of the people I've played with. I don't play anymore because I was banned for life and I have no desire to ever go back. I can still say that I think it's going to descend faster than ever with only those two at the helm because of my experiences with them and with what they present to the public as their personas without "caring" in most respects about the current incarnation of the game. I'm mostly sorry there isn't an alternative for the people who feel like Armageddon is their only creative outlet. |
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bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 131
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Post by bebop on Feb 27, 2023 12:46:08 GMT -5
Hestia having a normal one and blaming recent staff changes on the fact that people who get sexually harassed complain too much and don't press enough charges, apparently. Ok booomer. What a great victim blaming hot take from Lizzie. Almost as good as when she insisted on referring to transpeople as "its." Keep screaming into the sky from the retirement home on behalf of abusers from Florida friend. Nevermind all of the other evidence I provided about all of the game related rules that were broken too. We'll just ignore that part. |
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Post by ocotilloskewers on Feb 27, 2023 12:51:04 GMT -5
I'm mostly sorry there isn't an alternative for the people who feel like Armageddon is their only creative outlet, There is a great alternative that is very similar to Arm in code-base, is an RPI with 30-40+ players on peak, has actually amazing admins that aren't creeps, will respect your time, won't gaslight you, and will actually let you change the world around you.
It's called Harshlands. I recommend everyone give it a thorough try.
As for Arm, I think Looonsh stepping down is a great thing, but knowing Arm staff and how I have absolutely 0 trust in them to do anything right or openly, I feel like there's going to be some shit pulled here. The fact they're instantly banning anyone on the Discord who says anything that even suggests that they're thankful that the sexually offending staff member is gone.. is quite telling.
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