sawbot
staff puppet account
Posts: 31
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Post by sawbot on Apr 17, 2020 16:44:47 GMT -5
To clarify I'm not saying anyone was wrong to react how they did. My character definitely deserved to die.
My main concern was people thinking that the character was created for no other reason than to PK and I guess I wanted to explain why she did what she did. Sorry for the derail.
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Post by psyxypher on Apr 17, 2020 17:20:36 GMT -5
In response to the pits, it creates a sense of danger, but also the anakore are not instant death and they provide a resource. I'd be less annoyed if this was true. I just lost a pc to one fall into the pit. Full hp, full stun. ...How? I've fallen into that pipe so many times and never once was I put in fear of lethal damage. That fucking sucks, man. I'd bug it if I were you.
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Post by I'm me. on Apr 17, 2020 17:58:21 GMT -5
Into a Anakore Pit? Crit fail. I've fallen into them several times. Never once died and encountered more than one Anakore.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Apr 17, 2020 18:07:18 GMT -5
This thread is painting a really, horribad picture, of the game.
Like, if at any point, "indiscriminate pk" enters your "rp", you're a fucking idiot. Karmas system, favoritism w/ people getting special roles others dont get access to, shitty "pk count" rp'ers and of all fucking things, "death pit" game design? For reals, friends, all my curiosity for the game disappeared, in the time it took me to catch up with the thread.
Like, wth... if I lost a pc I'd invested into, developed relations and plots with, because "welp, u stepped on a landmine, GAME OVER" game design, I'd be out on the spot. Thats retarded AF.
3-5 players online, big fucking surprise.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 17, 2020 18:31:25 GMT -5
This thread is painting a really, horribad picture, of the game. Like, if at any point, "indiscriminate pk" enters your "rp", you're a fucking idiot. Karmas system, favoritism w/ people getting special roles others dont get access to, shitty "pk count" rp'ers and of all fucking things, "death pit" game design? For reals, friends, all my curiosity for the game disappeared, in the time it took me to catch up with the thread. Like, wth... if I lost a pc I'd invested into, developed relations and plots with, because "welp, u stepped on a landmine, GAME OVER" game design, I'd be out on the spot. Thats retarded AF. 3-5 players online, big fucking surprise. I mean, I agree with you. But are you acting like that's any different from what we've had in Armageddon the past 20 years? If that's the case, you're just full of shit. (The guy's PC fell one room into a pit and landed on his neck. Horrible luck, apparent instadeath. There are a ton of similar falls in Armageddon. There used to be a lot more actual instadeath rooms. Like, you walked in and died. They still have that in Armageddon with the silt sea, and it's beyond me why they decided to port over that feature into Apocalypse. It's pants-on-head retarded but oh well. Same applies to the indiscriminate pk, karma system, favoritism with special roles, pk count, etc. Is it really a surprise that features and behavior from Armageddon got ported over into the Armageddon knock-off??)
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Post by psyxypher on Apr 17, 2020 18:51:16 GMT -5
This thread is painting a really, horribad picture, of the game. Like, if at any point, "indiscriminate pk" enters your "rp", you're a fucking idiot. Karmas system, favoritism w/ people getting special roles others dont get access to, shitty "pk count" rp'ers and of all fucking things, "death pit" game design? For reals, friends, all my curiosity for the game disappeared, in the time it took me to catch up with the thread. Like, wth... if I lost a pc I'd invested into, developed relations and plots with, because "welp, u stepped on a landmine, GAME OVER" game design, I'd be out on the spot. Thats retarded AF. 3-5 players online, big fucking surprise. I mean, I agree with you. But are you acting like that's any different from what we've had in Armageddon the past 20 years? If that's the case, you're just full of shit. (The guy's PC fell one room into a pit and landed on his neck. Horrible luck, apparent instadeath. There are a ton of similar falls in Armageddon. There used to be a lot more actual instadeath rooms. Like, you walked in and died. They still have that in Armageddon with the silt sea, and it's beyond me why they decided to port over that feature into Apocalypse. It's pants-on-head retarded but oh well. Same applies to the indiscriminate pk, karma system, favoritism with special rolls, pk count, etc. Is it really a surprise that features and behavior from Armageddon got ported over into the Armageddon knock-off??) At the very least Ikthe has stated he's working on putting in code to prevent you from randomly walking into the silt. I'm still amazed that someone managed to die just from falling into the pit, though. I landed on my neck in that pit and still somehow lived.
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shetno defence force
Guest
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Post by shetno defence force on Apr 17, 2020 20:29:30 GMT -5
This thread is pretty surprising imo. The game is pretty much in test mode still. Staff are the main standout in terms of difference from Arm. They tend to whip up fun on the regular and are constantly adding shit to the game.
It's fair that people get burned out due to the small size of the world and limited plots, but the game isn't even at the point where it's had any sort of marketing and staff are clearly busy af in building stuff to come. They are also quite liberal with who can play what, particularly once the new karma system is in, so it's given a lot of people a chance to play guilds etc they never had access to before.
All in all, it's a work in progress, and right now you can be part of the process and genuinely shape the game world through your actions (see: staff are good). Don't be discouraged by this thread. It's quite at odds with the actual discussions people have on the Apoc Discord. At least to my knowledge.
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Post by lechuck on Apr 17, 2020 22:49:38 GMT -5
I tried Apoc for about a week after it opened, but the player numbers were just too low. It had like 15 people on launch night and immediately dwindled down to 10 at peak and 1-5 off-peak in the following days. It's just not enough for an RPI. The feeling of a living, breathing world is completely gone when you barely ever meet anyone, and the same handful of PCs when you do.
I'm of the opinion that new RPIs can absolutely hit the ground running, but only if they bring something new to the table. Apoc honestly doesn't. It feels like playing an empty version Armageddon from fifteen years ago with a slightly different map. While I have no particular moral objection to the use of plagiarized code, the resulting inability to advertise the game is a dealbreaker. There have been RPIs that came out and easily hit 30+ peaks early on, even if those games didn't always last forever. Apoc certainly won't attract the Arm crowd for obvious reasons, and noone else knows about it.
Apoc should have used the open-source RPI Engine instead of a cobbled-together version of old Arm code. It may have taken longer to develop, but it would have produced a more attractive game, and one that can be advertised in the MUD community instead of one that'll always bear the stain of stolen code. I believe there's considerable demand for a new high-quality RPI these days, considering how everything in the genre is ancient and mired in toxic bullshit. When Atonement came out, it had a healthy playerbase from the start and retained 30-40ish peaks for a long time until the owner inexplicably took a dump on the game and shut it down. If more effort had been put into Apoc, I'm confident that it would have had similar numbers.
Atonement would still have been around if the owner hadn't repeatedly gone AWOL for six months at a time only to return and find that the game was no longer viewed as his thing and then shut it down out of jealousy. Apoc could have filled that niche of a more modern RPI that learns from the mistakes of its predecessors. There's a need for that in the MUD community, it's just that nobody has provided it lately.
There's no such thing as a MUD that starts off dead and then picks up steam later on. Not in this day and age. That could happen back when it was the only form of online gaming, but nowadays noone's going to begin playing an RPI that has no playerbase to speak of. If it can't attract an absolute minimum of 20 players at peak from the start, and preferably 30+, it'll never get there. It's just not feasible. There needs a be a strong launch to build on so the game keeps some wind in its sails. It can still be a work in progress, but there has to be enough there for people to want to play it now, not in two years. It's also a matter of needing staff to remain interested which, with so few players, is highly unlikely.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 17, 2020 22:49:53 GMT -5
This thread is pretty surprising imo. The game is pretty much in test mode still. Staff are the main standout in terms of difference from Arm. They tend to whip up fun on the regular and are constantly adding shit to the game. It's fair that people get burned out due to the small size of the world and limited plots, but the game isn't even at the point where it's had any sort of marketing and staff are clearly busy af in building stuff to come. They are also quite liberal with who can play what, particularly once the new karma system is in, so it's given a lot of people a chance to play guilds etc they never had access to before. All in all, it's a work in progress, and right now you can be part of the process and genuinely shape the game world through your actions (see: staff are good). Don't be discouraged by this thread. It's quite at odds with the actual discussions people have on the Apoc Discord. At least to my knowledge. How is it surprising? It would be nice if there was actual substance to your post. IE: what kind of discussions are happening in the Discord that are at odds with this thread? How are the staff good? How are they 'clearly busy af' in building stuff (MAYBE they are, but they need to up their communication and official updates if that's the case, because none of this is evident). I've already made it clear that they haven't begun advertising, they've let randoms play special roles (I don't think this is a good thing but sure), and it's very much a work in progress. I would argue that you can't genuinely shape the game world in a meaningful way as of yet. Uhh, unless if you consider popularizing the word 'Shetnoan' as an epic gaming moment? A lot of animations DOES NOT automatically mean that a lot of good and meaningful shit is happening. A lot of it is high-fantasy and hack-n'-slash filler. If that thrills you, go for it, but I think the current player retention speaks for itself. I also see warning signs from some of the staffers. I won't point fingers but I already see a staff member or two going after particular players. And I already see a rather large number of staff members/builders despite the rather minimal amount of work that has been communicated to us. I mean, the biggest PC clan (the Locals) was formed after a player lost his shit over the game and the fact that another PC group (the Militia) was getting 'so much' attention from the staff during launch week. He went and cried about it in the Shadowspeak discord. He told us he was going to form his own group with his friends and kill them. And that's what he did. He made his own Discord and invited his OOC buddies and formed the biggest PC clan that pretty much ran shit for ~2 months. The original group (the Militia) I'm pretty sure died off due to animations and their own stupidity and boom. You had an OOC clique running a playerbase of like 10 players at the time. And this is just my opinion, but they weren't the most interesting bunch, and they didn't represent the cream-of-the-crop when it came to roleplaying. BUT. There were a couple of cool plots and I had more fun on Apocalypse in 2-3 weeks then I would have in Armageddon (outside mudsex, am I right?? ) in periods stretching months, if not years. So - sure, give it a try. It'll get better or it'll get worse, but why not at least check it out? Shrug.
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Post by explayer on Apr 17, 2020 22:54:41 GMT -5
If they're in a testing phase, they wouldn't mind if a few people arranged OOCly to team up, right? A game with a low population could still be fun if you have a couple of consistent pack mates.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 17, 2020 23:02:13 GMT -5
If they're in a testing phase, they wouldn't mind if a few people arranged OOCly to team up, right? A game with a low population could still be fun if you have a couple of consistent pack mates. It's not a testing phase. It's either an alpha/beta, whatever they're wanting to call it. The game was 'open for testing' years ago, and was open for a few months before it 'launched' into the current alpha/beta phase. Again, I've seen a lot of barebones games launch with minimal advertising and have a much more active playerbase. I don't think Apocalypse staff or the rules discourage OOC play. People are allowed to roll in together. But the circumstances of it were scummy and I think it took away from the game when everyone else was going at it solo and organically forging relationships. I kinda feel bad for the staff and the bulk of the players that they have to put up with. I think the whole raiding elf tribe/Shetno dispute earlier in the thread makes it clear that a lot of these guys just flock to PK.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Apr 17, 2020 23:32:44 GMT -5
I mean, I agree with you. But are you acting like that's any different from what we've had in Armageddon the past 20 years? If that's the case, you're just full of shit. (The guy's PC fell one room into a pit and landed on his neck. Horrible luck, apparent instadeath. There are a ton of similar falls in Armageddon. There used to be a lot more actual instadeath rooms. Like, you walked in and died. They still have that in Armageddon with the silt sea, and it's beyond me why they decided to port over that feature into Apocalypse. It's pants-on-head retarded but oh well. Same applies to the indiscriminate pk, karma system, favoritism with special rolls, pk count, etc. Is it really a surprise that features and behavior from Armageddon got ported over into the Armageddon knock-off??) The fact it's a spin off from Arm, with literal bootleg code, being used to make new game in the same vein, but following so close to the BS that drives people away from Arm, and has forever apparently, is what makes it such a baffle and a pisser.
Were I to burn all bridges, become the pariah of the RP text scene, steal game code and re-work it to make a new version of something that is already out there and established? I wouldn't do all of the things, that game does wrong and loses players over, as a matter of course. Karmas? Come on, now, really? Doom rooms, absurdly punishing climb code, "lol failed d.sense, into instant death with you!" bullshit? Why even make all the effort, if you're just going to run the same kind of game, with the same kind of indifferent/fuckplayers policies?
Even Arm, for all its fails, wouldn't see a player declare "ill just KoS anyone who isn't mah bropal" for basically any reason, and say "Yup, good shit, lets see where he goes with it!"
To me, that says 'lower standards than arm', and thats a sad, damn achievement, imo.
Why, even bother? Arm is already there, if thats what people wanted.
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Post by I'm me. on Apr 17, 2020 23:43:47 GMT -5
I see tons of people whining who have tried the game for maybe a day. Boo hoo. Quit whining. Sounds like you all want to be special, guess what.. Your not.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 18, 2020 0:08:39 GMT -5
I see tons of people whining who have tried the game for maybe a day. Boo hoo. Quit whining. Sounds like you all want to be special, guess what.. Your not. ... *facepalm* Allowing guests to post was a mistake.
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Post by longlivetheking on Apr 18, 2020 0:13:04 GMT -5
A lot of people complaining here haven't stuck around to see anything new. They bitch based on the opening few weeks as everything was still getting worked on. And this vex guy thinks he's hot shit, for some reason. Clearly knows everything about everything. He's totally down with the info.
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