nile
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
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Post by nile on Apr 18, 2020 0:14:49 GMT -5
I see tons of people whining who have tried the game for maybe a day. Boo hoo. Quit whining. Sounds like you all want to be special, guess what.. Your not. rofl I had to think the same.
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rm51
staff puppet account
Posts: 7
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Post by rm51 on Apr 18, 2020 0:16:21 GMT -5
To clarify I'm not saying anyone was wrong to react how they did. My character definitely deserved to die. My main concern was people thinking that the character was created for no other reason than to PK and I guess I wanted to explain why she did what she did. Sorry for the derail. That's all right, I understand why you'd want to defend your position. I stated what I perceived from my point of view IC and OOC. I didn't feel it was right to create this board. While there's no rule against OOC communication on Apoc (or discussion outside of 'official' channels), it bothers me somewhat that a thread and board that's supposed to be concerning another MUD entirely is being used to air out grievances for a different MUD. I believe most of your complaints against the Armageddon method of running things; I feel this is the wrong place to put them, and promotes bashing of a nascent game that many people here have not yet even given a serious try.
If you're not willing to try the game, that's entirely your prerogative, but I want to say that from my point of view things certainly feel 'fresh' and different, and with staffers that are willing to make changes - and have made them.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 18, 2020 0:25:07 GMT -5
I see tons of people whining who have tried the game for maybe a day. Boo hoo. Quit whining. Sounds like you all want to be special, guess what.. Your not. rofl I had to think the same. That's ironic coming from you. A lot of people complaining here haven't stuck around to see anything new. They bitch based on the opening few weeks as everything was still getting worked on. And this vex guy thinks he's hot shit, for some reason. Clearly knows everything about everything. He's totally down with the info. Who are all (you said 'a lot') of the people whining/complaining? To quote your butt buddy, who are the people crying who only "tried the game for maybe a day"? Would you like to enlighten people instead of flaming the thread? Besides vex, who has critiqued the game without playing it? Defending the game and disagreeing is fine. But running in here with your buddies to shitpost just gives it a bad look. Oh well
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Post by explayer on Apr 18, 2020 0:27:58 GMT -5
One thing is that Arm and Apoc are certain to diverge over time, with changes to code being made to both of them. Similar code now but less so in the future.
Environmentally, here is a big difference (this is just my first take): Apoc has no stultifying nobility and all-encompassing merchant houses. And another possible biggie; on Apoc, does everyone have the potential to be able to read and write?
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Post by longlivetheking on Apr 18, 2020 0:28:18 GMT -5
rofl I had to think the same. That's ironic coming from you. A lot of people complaining here haven't stuck around to see anything new. They bitch based on the opening few weeks as everything was still getting worked on. And this vex guy thinks he's hot shit, for some reason. Clearly knows everything about everything. He's totally down with the info. Who are all (you said 'a lot') of the people whining/complaining? To quote your butt buddy, who are the people crying who only "tried the game for maybe a day"? Would you like to enlighten people instead of flaming the thread? Besides vex, who has critiqued the game without playing it? Defending the game and disagreeing is fine. But running in here with your buddies to shitpost just gives it a bad look. Oh well
You'll see what I said opening weeks, not days. I really can't tell who is who around here. I can tell a lot of people bitching either don't play much, or or never tried to reasonably RP outside of PK.
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rm51
staff puppet account
Posts: 7
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Post by rm51 on Apr 18, 2020 0:32:59 GMT -5
I tried Apoc for about a week after it opened, but the player numbers were just too low. It had like 15 people on launch night and immediately dwindled down to 10 at peak and 1-5 off-peak in the following days. It's just not enough for an RPI. The feeling of a living, breathing world is completely gone when you barely ever meet anyone, and the same handful of PCs when you do. I'm of the opinion that new RPIs can absolutely hit the ground running, but only if they bring something new to the table. Apoc honestly doesn't. It feels like playing an empty version Armageddon from fifteen years ago with a slightly different map. While I have no particular moral objection to the use of plagiarized code, the resulting inability to advertise the game is a dealbreaker. There have been RPIs that came out and easily hit 30+ peaks early on, even if those games didn't always last forever. Apoc certainly won't attract the Arm crowd for obvious reasons, and noone else knows about it. Apoc should have used the open-source RPI Engine instead of a cobbled-together version of old Arm code. It may have taken longer to develop, but it would have produced a more attractive game, and one that can be advertised in the MUD community instead of one that'll always bear the stain of stolen code. I believe there's considerable demand for a new high-quality RPI these days, considering how everything in the genre is ancient and mired in toxic bullshit. When Atonement came out, it had a healthy playerbase from the start and retained 30-40ish peaks for a long time until the owner inexplicably took a dump on the game and shut it down. If more effort had been put into Apoc, I'm confident that it would have had similar numbers. Atonement would still have been around if the owner hadn't repeatedly gone AWOL for six months at a time only to return and find that the game was no longer viewed as his thing and then shut it down out of jealousy. Apoc could have filled that niche of a more modern RPI that learns from the mistakes of its predecessors. There's a need for that in the MUD community, it's just that nobody has provided it lately. There's no such thing as a MUD that starts off dead and then picks up steam later on. Not in this day and age. That could happen back when it was the only form of online gaming, but nowadays noone's going to begin playing an RPI that has no playerbase to speak of. If it can't attract an absolute minimum of 20 players at peak from the start, and preferably 30+, it'll never get there. It's just not feasible. There needs a be a strong launch to build on so the game keeps some wind in its sails. It can still be a work in progress, but there has to be enough there for people to want to play it now, not in two years. It's also a matter of needing staff to remain interested which, with so few players, is highly unlikely. OOC drama aside, Atonement was meant to 'end' at some point and I feel they finished off the story in a good way. It opened in a different era, too, because many of the most prolific players on that game had been at the perfect age for this style of gameplay: high-school or college student, young, unmarried, childless, usually not yet employed or if so, part-time. These same players have since aged, and even if many had more time to devote to gaming, there may not be enough appeal left in RP any more to give it a leg up over more 'modern' games. More and more I am starting to agree with the general notion that MUDs/MU**s are a dying genre. All the relatively recent game openings I've ran into - LabMUD, CarrierRPI, Apoc - they've all opened with some 20-30 people, and gradually settled into a 'peak' of the low teens at most in their active days. It almost feels as if games that manage to retain a significant player base in this day and age often do so out of pure inertia instead of some inherent appeal. TI:L and Armageddon, despite both being relatively stagnant, maintain a considerably higher peak count than most other games. Then again, even the kings of pbase count - kink mushes - seem to be set on a gradual downward trend in player count. I don't really know.
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Post by I'm me. on Apr 18, 2020 0:34:43 GMT -5
Keyboard warriors are strong here. All I see are people whining who haven't played the game or if they did were only active for a day or two. Lol. You guys get back to your shit posting. Have fun 😘
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 18, 2020 0:51:01 GMT -5
I see tons of people whining who have tried the game for maybe a day. Boo hoo. Quit whining. Sounds like you all want to be special, guess what.. Your not. rofl I had to think the same. imgur.com/a/tGHy7uOHere's where nile/Meursault/leader of the Locals lost his shit in the Shadowspeak during launch week because the Militia was getting more attention than him. He lost it even worse in the actual Apocalypse discord. Left and rejoined with a second account to keep playing. But I'm not going to go dig that up. I guess we all want to be special, sometimes. Really don't want a flame war but when I offer up some criticism and it's met with a bunch of low iq hate posts...
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Post by psyxypher on Apr 18, 2020 1:11:41 GMT -5
I can agree that the instant death stuff is bullshit and by all means this game needs more players. If we had an influx of a dozen or so people who were out there to actually play the game, things would be a lot different. For starters, I wouldn't need to worry about having arrowcatchers in arms reach.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Apr 18, 2020 3:24:19 GMT -5
A lot of people complaining here haven't stuck around to see anything new. They bitch based on the opening few weeks as everything was still getting worked on. And this vex guy thinks he's hot shit, for some reason. Clearly knows everything about everything. He's totally down with the info.
Consider suicide, so your poor old mother, has a reason to be proud of you.
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Post by longlivetheking on Apr 18, 2020 5:36:42 GMT -5
A lot of people complaining here haven't stuck around to see anything new. They bitch based on the opening few weeks as everything was still getting worked on. And this vex guy thinks he's hot shit, for some reason. Clearly knows everything about everything. He's totally down with the info.
Consider suicide, so your poor old mother, has a reason to be proud of you.
Aww, thank you. You must be real fun at parties.
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Post by jcarter on Apr 18, 2020 9:40:30 GMT -5
I see tons of people whining who have tried the game for maybe a day. Boo hoo. Quit whining. Sounds like you all want to be special, guess what.. Your not. ... *facepalm* Allowing guests to post was a mistake. that wasn't on purpose and has been fixed.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,656
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Post by delerak on Apr 18, 2020 9:47:35 GMT -5
it bothers me somewhat that a thread and board that's supposed to be concerning another MUD entirely is being used to air out grievances for a different MUD. I've little reason to post these days but wanted to address your concern here. I think I can say in confidence that Apoc will never get out from Arm's shadow. I ran into a similar issue with Darksun in the fact that I was using the main setting Arm was based off but I didn't use Arm's code I used freely available SwordQuest/Argila. Using Arm's code makes it seem that on the surface you want to compete with Arm or steal Arm's players away. That's just not going to happen. You'll get a few here and there for a while just like I did and eventually they'll move onto something else, or go back to Arm. Apoc also has to deal with the fact that they're using code that wasn't released by the programmers. I personally think it's wrong to use someone else's work without their consent, but on top of that Arm's current version is superior to Apoc in many ways not to mention Arm has a cadre of decent coders despite what people claim here. People who think the Arm codebase is what makes the game don't see the big picture, it was never the code it was the players that made the game great. Apoc to me looks like it has some ex-Arm players and staff interested in it. But that's not going to sustain a game or push it into the 'successful' area. If ultimately your goal is to thrive with a peak of 100 players (hell 50 would be a success these days) you need to pull players from all over not just from Arm. What a lot of mud players/staff fail to realize is that it's getting harder and harder to start a successful mud. If you're okay with 4-5 players on at peak then disregard my post but it's a massive uphill battle without the controversy of the codebase, adding that into it will make it even more difficult if not impossible to make the game garner any sort of decent numbers. Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I failed with my Darksun mud and since then I've seen a dozen spin offs from Arm trying to start the new "Darksun" thing and they all fail after a few years. Tell me what makes Apoc different?
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Post by explayer on Apr 18, 2020 11:48:47 GMT -5
All of the staff (with the exception of Nessalin) and players are using code and zones developed by people who are long gone. Maybe they'd have been pleased to share it with others, seeing what Arm has turned into.
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Post by psyxypher on Apr 18, 2020 12:46:41 GMT -5
The fact that there's no desire to advertise the game at the current moment also hurts. Had that not be the case, I'd be trying to pull people from all over.
Things aside, I agree with Delerak (who I want to see play, actually) that Arm's code has a lot of problems in it. Apoc has at least gone a ways to fixing this, like lowering combat skill timers, making it so parry/shield/defense don't screw over one another and making it so you can't roll below "Above Average" on stats.
It is what it is, right now. I'm willing to work with it. If you (the guy reading this comment) isn't, I understand.
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