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Post by terminal on Jan 15, 2020 11:15:04 GMT -5
that's certainly something to aim for until the great satan gets fired and is replaced by someone whose fuckery is just a more palatable flavor. it doesn't end - everyone is the best/most qualified in their own mind.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 15, 2020 11:18:27 GMT -5
If there appears to be a recurring issue of a 'Great Satan' than that is likely a culture or policy issue and not specifically an individual issue. Like back when Nyr was a dick it was theorized he was the staff 'no man' the guy who was always tapped to decline player requests or administer discipline for rule violations. This theory was based on the fact he came off like a huge asshole but a lot of other staffers seemed alright. So people went oh he's supposed to be the bad guy so all the other staffers can be cuddly. That didn't appear to be the case in the end.
Now I know you may be tempted to say ah but all staff come from players so it is indeed players who are the worst and the staff are a reflection of their playerbase. To you I say look at HavenRPG who has toxic staff AND a toxic playerbase because of it and it's been the same 2 people on staff for years. Culture informs behaviour.
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 11:19:20 GMT -5
that's certainly something to aim for until the great satan gets fired and is replaced by someone whose fuckery is just a more palatable flavor. it doesn't end - everyone is the best/most qualified in their own mind. I think an open dialogue and being held accountable and having to explain actions taken is a good way to combat anyone exhibiting fuckery. And I think that goes back to the whole 'We don't talk about anything,' "rule" that staff has had for a long time and has enforced upon themselves and players. It does no one any favors. If you aren't able to discuss it and take your fuck up on the chin, maybe it's time to let someone else do so. |
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Post by terminal on Jan 15, 2020 11:36:24 GMT -5
"If you aren't able to discuss it and take your fuck up on the chin, maybe it's time to let someone else do so."
this sort of sentiment gets toward the root of what i'm trying to convey.
it should be fairly obvious to anyone that even casually takes a look at this board that players AND staff have an extremely difficult time taking their fuck ups on the chin. it doesn't make sense to me to try and hold someone accountable while simultaneously engaging in the exact same behavior. saying that staff have an obligation toward higher standards doesn't absolve anyone of the responsibility to own their shit.
continuously parroting the idea of staff needing to step the fuck up just seems like a non-starter to me. everyone needs to get on board.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 15, 2020 11:43:25 GMT -5
Can you give an example of someone who is playing currently who has not taken responsibility for their own shit? Obviously those of us who quit it doesn't matter whether we are accountable for our behaviour years ago or not. Though I suspect a lot of us have admitted to varying levels of culpability.
EDIT - I ask for an example because if you have not read the entire board (as a new user who would expect you too) you may find them posting here admitting they overreacted or they were in the wrong about something.
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 11:49:22 GMT -5
"If you aren't able to discuss it and take your fuck up on the chin, maybe it's time to let someone else do so."
this sort of sentiment gets toward the root of what i'm trying to convey.
it should be fairly obvious to anyone that even casually takes a look at this board that players AND staff have an extremely difficult time taking their fuck ups on the chin. it doesn't make sense to me to try and hold someone accountable while simultaneously engaging in the exact same behavior. saying that staff have an obligation toward higher standards doesn't absolve anyone of the responsibility to own their shit.
continuously parroting the idea of staff needing to step the fuck up just seems like a non-starter to me. everyone needs to get on board.
But there's a power dynamic at play. Players aren't expected to be right all the time, and sometimes they need guidance. That's why staff is there. I don't know why you think that staff shouldn't be "better" than players when it comes to rules and behaving. I mean, if storytellers have little power compared to admin+, then how much power do you think that players actually have? They don't change the world as frequently as you would believe: they HAVE to rely upon staff for that. Asking them to be responsible is well and good, but if you have staff members cheating or being unkind in their handling of players, how can you expect the players to take the highroad too? I'm just perplexed at this line of thinking, I guess. :/ |
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Post by terminal on Jan 15, 2020 11:54:12 GMT -5
Can you give an example of someone who is playing currently who has not taken responsibility for their own shit? Obviously those of us who quit it doesn't matter whether we are accountable for our behaviour years ago or not. Though I suspect a lot of us have admitted to varying levels of culpability. EDIT - I ask for an example because if you have not read the entire board (as a new user who would expect you too) you may find them posting here admitting they overreacted or they were in the wrong about something.
i don't know if shaleah is off or on. it's a good example of one of arm's more vocal/engaged players presenting a very questionable take.
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Post by samosforpresident on Jan 15, 2020 11:58:31 GMT -5
I think it 100% is trickle down. The state of the game being stale. The transparency issues. The toxic environment.
Who brings in new staff? Who decides on staff punishment? I'll get in trouble for taking to my friends about a game for fun, but stafferadmin #1 gets a staff avatar AND plays with their friends while telling me "Bad samos, no black robe for you! Naughty!". That requires more accountability. I'm already being policed, toxic and stale management is not.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 15, 2020 12:00:24 GMT -5
Okay so ShaLeah if you are out there in the ether. Are you part of the problem? Does it take two to tango? Have you ever been uncharitable or abrasive in your interactions with staff? Have you perhaps broken or bent a rule at some time? Have you made a mistake? For what it's worth I have done... 1 - Walking from Nak to the Arabeti camp on my way to Luirs within 1 hr of creating an elf because I wanted to play in the post but wanted a southie accent to start. (spam walked like I pre-entered all the commands) 2 - I have spam crafted to run to the merchants after reboot for $$$ money. 3 - I have apartment murdered, shut the door bebe the knife will take you away. 4 - I have gotten crotchey with the staff either because I was in a mood or inferred tone into their written response. 5 - I've discussed IC things OOCly! 6 - I've coordinated playtimes OOCly! But not for murder. 7 - I don't think I've twinked but I'm sure by the staff standard I have twinked which is hunting regularly and without needing skins or bone or meat just for ze fighting. |
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delerak
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PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 15, 2020 12:02:21 GMT -5
What is depressing for me is I am not surprised by any of it. This shit has been going on for years. I have an entire video just talking about staff avatars and how bad they are, in general on any MUD, but especially so for RPIs. If you want to keep playing then you need to be on the same level of us. Plenty of players leave once they discover that they are at such a disadvantage. I did it for 6+ years and it looks like that policy is still in place. So stupid.
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punished ppurg
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Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Post by punished ppurg on Jan 15, 2020 12:05:02 GMT -5
I agree with delerak! There should be no player-realm benefits for staffers. Players who anticipate joining staff for tangible IC benefits are not appreciated by me; and I would argue that they post a serious problem with both the game and the community's perspective.
I welcome the admins who have been outlined in these "tell alls" to come and post their side of the story here. Unfortunately, the hole they have been steadily digging themselves into over the past few years won't fill itself.
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 12:19:13 GMT -5
I agree with delerak! There should be no player-realm benefits for staffers. Players who anticipate joining staff for tangible IC benefits are not appreciated by me; and I would argue that they post a serious problem with both the game and the community's perspective. I welcome the admins who have been outlined in these "tell alls" to come and post their side of the story here. Unfortunately, the hole they have been steadily digging themselves into over the past few years won't fill itself. I am of the unpopular opinion that staff shouldn't play at all, besides NPCs. I know it was very hard for me to avoid information that was reported or requested about my PCs. It's a very awkward line to tread and it isn't always avoidable. I think I certainly enjoyed my time on staff more when I didn't have to worry about having to navigate the weirdness of all of that. I played my psi for about 2 hours and then stored her so a player could have the role. Then again, I never really played for the code, or played for a feeling or sense of power. |
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Post by samosforpresident on Jan 15, 2020 12:31:40 GMT -5
Between the current meta and how players are focused on code so much. Its even what staff push for conflict. And now this surfaces from actual staff? My hopes for this game have gone down dramatically and I've loved this game for ages.
I love roleplay and creating roles that aren't all about the mega fire death one shots. But so many things add to that being what you need to do to survive long enough to do anything meaningful. Staff just don't feel like they give a shit a majority of the time.
Like, lets just let this dying horse kick a bit more before we put it out of its misery.
Staff reading this either need to speak up and be more transparent or I see these posts causing alot of players to leave.
I don't usually speak up, but this information along with what I've been hearing through the grapevine of what players are doing in game these days has me seriously worried about the future of Arm.
Stand up and fight for a better community Staffers or stand down and let others take over. Peace the fuck out.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on Jan 15, 2020 12:39:16 GMT -5
I am of the unpopular opinion that staff shouldn't play at all, besides NPCs. agree with u purg and del but are we sure the player realm bennies arent the main reason these staff role calls are getting answered in the 1st place because if the bureacracy nergal talk abt that needs lots of staff isnt changing and the player realm bennies are the big reason for ppl joining then taking them away could make things even worse for the staff left trying to make things work after other staff fuck off and no one fills the open slots |
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 12:46:12 GMT -5
I am of the unpopular opinion that staff shouldn't play at all, besides NPCs. agree with u purg and del but are we sure the player realm bennies arent the main reason these staff role calls are getting answered in the 1st place because if the bureacracy nergal talk abt that needs lots of staff isnt changing and the player realm bennies are the big reason for ppl joining then taking them away could make things even worse for the staff left trying to make things work after other staff fuck off and no one fills the open slots I know it's why some of them probably stayed -- they probably couldn't ever get the karma for sorcerers if they just remained players. If you ask me, asking someone to staff and further the game *without* bennies would be a good way to see who actually cared about the game. "You get nothing from being staff besides helping the players shape the world." I'd be okay with that. Maybe others wouldn't. But I think that'd serve as a decent filter for those who wanted to make the game better and those who were mostly self serving. |
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