ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 9:47:45 GMT -5
my takeaway from boog/nergal is that when players transition to staff they continue to be cunty and maintain the same sort of ooc cliques that plague the game. this sort of exposé feels (to me) like all it does is illustrate backbiting, hand-wringing, and the same tired as fuck attitude of "us good, them bad" that pervades the gdb and this 2.gdb. it's an interesting perspective but the narrative is the same, and i think everyone would benefit from having enough self awareness to appreciate their own contribution to the shitshow. I certainly had players I loved to watch and interact with and I was delighted when some became my clan players, but I tried very, very hard not to have a clique on staff. And if I did, it was the one person who ended up spilling the beans when our paths diverged in game. But by that point, I suppose I'd had enough anyway and I was prepared to face the consequences *of* having a player I had divulged information to -- even if it was just one. I don't know that I ever had a clique as a player, or even a loose association of people I rolled with regularly ... semi-regularly ... infrequently, even, and I like to think that sort of integrity was part of why Adhira offered me a position on staff on more than one occasion. And while it's true, yes, I do love Shaleah, at the time I was staff, she wasn't playing so much, and I, before my time as staff, went to great lengths to just tough it out on my own. BUT, after being staff, I can definitely see why people stick together. It makes sense for the staff favorites to stick together, for the persecuted to stick together... and, honestly, I think that the moratorium that is in place -- with regards to discussing past exploits -- only serves to further fuel the fire of people spreading IC information. I mean, if you can't get it from the GDB, people are naturally going to go elsewhere for their answers, and thus form friendships and forge bonds. I mean, who wants to be miserable, playing a game they love? I definitely understand it and commiserate with that sentiment now, with regard to people playing with one another. However, those elitist, really OLD cliques of people who have been friends and considered 'the best' for years and years and years -are- certainly pollutive. Getting sponsored roles that other players have been applying for every role call, (re)joining staff even though it might not be the best time or state for a person, just because you were BFFs with some long-gone relic of prior staff or what have you? Yeah... I always did try to combat that. But I was just a sm0l, as were most, against a machine bigger than we could ever possibly hope to be. |
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 9:51:52 GMT -5
And I'd also like to think I held myself accountable. I'm not staff any longer and didn't stay after the revelation. I made a major fuck up and instead of sticking around, which I could have done, I said that, yes, I'd done it, and yes, I take responsibility for it, and I'm going to not be staff any longer.
But the whole point of my posting was that I think there are people who facilitate this poor behavior from staff simply by being impassive about it, and perhaps I even was too, because I didn't want to rock the boat. I wanted to be able to stick around long enough to make an impression and imprint and to better the game. That ended up not being the case, because I was in the end, worn down, and I was almost grateful that that player took it upon themselves to tell staff what I'd said to them.
And maybe that's an issue to bring up as well. I don't want to speak for Nergal, but I held on simply for the hope of holding on. Though, I've always maintained that towards the end, I was not the best I could have been, though switching teams and admins certainly gave me a bit of a restorative.
Beyond that, though, I was hoping my post was more a, 'we all have our issues, though some more than others, and the toxicity you've experienced is probably true because I dealt with it too,' but apparently it didn't read that way to some.
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Post by terminal on Jan 15, 2020 10:00:35 GMT -5
i guess i misread the facebook snippet of you and another staffer talking shit about other staff members. you guys were just sm0ls against a machine bigger than you could ever possibly hope to be.
maybe i'm retarded and/or crazy but your posts read like that spiderman pointing meme.
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 10:05:48 GMT -5
Honestly, that was me venting out of frustration and a desire to feel like someone could help me or at least stand up for me: I can do that for other people, but I was so reticent to do it myself, especially on Armageddon, because I wanted to last and "be the change". I never saw Adhira much online (she'd log on after 9pm EST and I was usually animating) and I didn't feel like nessalin was someone I could speak with about my issues. And Nergal was already overworked AF. This staffer never took shit from anyone, and I admired that, because I couldn't ever be that way, or at least, not to that degree. And they did stick up for me when seidhr was insulting me for missing those character description errors -- it had gutted me.
For a better picture, though, and a bit of backstory, haha: That staffer and I only ever played together once as players and they referred to me as 'flighty' when Adhira asked the other staffers if they'd be cool with me joining staff. It always cracks me up because they apologized for it, but I said there was no need. As a player, I kinda was flighty. It seemed whenever I got a sponsored role, I was somehow spitting out a kid. -_-;
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Jan 15, 2020 10:06:08 GMT -5
i guess i misread the facebook snippet of you and another staffer talking shit about other staff members. you guys were just sm0ls against a machine bigger than you could ever possibly hope to be. maybe i'm retarded and/or crazy but your posts read like that spiderman pointing meme. If that's legitimately what you got out of that imgur post, you definitely misread it. |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 15, 2020 10:17:38 GMT -5
i guess i misread the facebook snippet of you and another staffer talking shit about other staff members. you guys were just sm0ls against a machine bigger than you could ever possibly hope to be. maybe i'm retarded and/or crazy but your posts read like that spiderman pointing meme.  |
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Post by terminal on Jan 15, 2020 10:25:20 GMT -5
is it really that hard to imagine seidhr/whoever the fuck else having that same conversation on facebook messenger? swap the names around, now boog is the problem because seidhr said so and posted it.
all i'm saying is it's way more probable that everyone is part of the problem in their own way.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Jan 15, 2020 10:27:06 GMT -5
I suppose a woman who wears a short skirt is "asking for it", too?
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 15, 2020 10:31:32 GMT -5
is it really that hard to imagine seidhr/whoever the fuck else having that same conversation on facebook messenger? swap the names around, now boog is the problem because seidhr said so and posted it. all i'm saying is it's way more probable that everyone is part of the problem in their own way. In a hierarchy like Arm has setup typically those at the top are held accountable. The failure of SOI for example is solely on those that were running the game. You don't blame foot soldiers for a generals incompetent orders. |
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 10:35:07 GMT -5
is it really that hard to imagine seidhr/whoever the fuck else having that same conversation on facebook messenger? swap the names around, now boog is the problem because seidhr said so and posted it. all i'm saying is it's way more probable that everyone is part of the problem in their own way. I have said that people aren't the heroes in everyone's story, and that's true, even for me. I posted those snippets because a lot of players have accused seidhr of being brash and having very poor people skills. I posted it also because it assists as a sort of evidence to my claims about him being unkind. That said, I think you would be hard pressed to find evidence of me being outright unkind or short with players, or constantly wishing particular players ill. It's possible I was short with other staff members, but I tended to not talk to them very much in all actuality. But if you view this as simply a Spiderman meme pointing at himself, I don't think that any amount of explanation I have for you will change your mind. I'm sorry that you feel that way, and I hope you never have to deal with staff who are outright rude, mean, or lie to you.  |
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516 
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 15, 2020 10:37:45 GMT -5
I understand the we're all guilty of our own negatives thing you're trying to lay down.
I don't think you'll see people picking it up because players have called out other players for their behaviour and now you see staffers are willing to accept some responsibility for their behaviour too. You appear to want to go well that's enough of that accountability or dialogue nonsense. Staff are players (something Qwerty has been pushing) so if Staff is bad it's players who are bad first so lets all go back to ignoring the problem!
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 10:44:08 GMT -5
Staff should be held to a higher standard -- that's why they're staff. However, sometimes that is misinterpreted, I think, and a sense of, "I can do it *because* I'm staff," is what you receive instead ... and is what I was trying to bring light to.
I made mistakes, I've erred, but I don't think I ever damaged players in quite so many ways as I've seen in terms of accusations leveled against certain staff members. I'm willing to take responsibility for my mistakes, and I hope, maybe someday, these staffers will too. At this rate, that's the only way this game will heal and continue to be played, in my very humble opinion.
To an earlier point you'd made: Some players were absolute beasts to handle, you're right. There are always rules and guidelines to be enforced. But generally, I think being softer, or at least relaying these expectations to players in a way that isn't so ... short or sharp is better than the alternative.
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Post by terminal on Jan 15, 2020 10:44:13 GMT -5
i'm not trying to advocate for ignoring the problem; i just think it would be more productive if everyone would try harder to appreciate and address their own contribution to the shit that goes on in and around the game. that's probably a lot to ask for, but it doesn't feel like any more or less than wishing bad staff might be held accountable.
it's possible i'm way off base. i have a wildly different experience with armageddon than a lot of people who post here. otherwise i don't think a perspective that doesn't take the line of rage against the machine is necessarily bad.
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
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Post by ask on Jan 15, 2020 10:47:19 GMT -5
i'm not trying to advocate for ignoring the problem; i just think it would be more productive if everyone would try harder to appreciate and address their own contribution to the shit that goes on in and around the game. that's probably a lot to ask for, but it doesn't feel like any more or less than wishing bad staff might be held accountable. it's possible i'm way off base. i have a wildly different experience with armageddon than a lot of people who post here. otherwise i don't think a perspective that doesn't take the line of rage against the machine is necessarily bad. Ah, but we have to hold those in charge accountable more, I'd say. They're the ones at the helm. They're the ones who are supposed to be enforcing and protecting rules and regulations, especially those they expect players to also adhere to. I'd say the onus is on them first: leaders have to lead by example. |
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mfduck
staff puppet account
Posts: 19
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Post by mfduck on Jan 15, 2020 11:08:15 GMT -5
I'm glad that was shared with us. Admins being allowed to be on staff avatar and character avatar speaks volumes... This level of unfairness is why theses boards exist.
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